Black money in Switzerland and other tax havens
- Thread starter LETHALFORCE
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Sir,
It's claimed to be 13 times more than our extenal debt...though authentication of the claim can not verified. If it's true we can pay back our debt within a day and putting the rest in interest bearing assets we can get interests that is more than our annual budget. So we will not be paying tax anymore.....:blum3:
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Is India poor, who says? Ask Swiss banks
Is India poor, who says? Ask Swiss banks
With personal account deposit bank of $1500 billion in foreign reserve which have been
misappropriated, an amount 13 times larger than the country’s foreign debt, one needs to rethink if India is a poor country?.
DISHONEST INDUSTRIALISTS, scandalous politicians and corrupt IAS, IRS,IPS officers have deposited in foreign banks in their illegal personal accounts a sum of about $ 1500 billion, which have been misappropriated by them.
This amount is about 13 times larger than the country’s foreign debt. With this amount 45 crore poor people can get Rs 1,00,000 each. This huge amount has been appropriated from the people of India by exploiting and betraying them.
Once this huge amount of black money and property comes back to India , the entire foreign debt can be repaid in 24 hours. After paying the entire foreign debt, we will have surplus amount, almost 12 times larger than the foreign debt. If this surplus amount is invested
in earning interest, the amount of interest will be more than the annual budget of the Central government. So even if all the taxes are abolished, then also the Central government will be able to maintain the country very comfortably.
Some 80,000 people travel to Switzerland every year, of whom 25,000 travel very frequently.
“Obviously, these people won’t be tourists. They must be traveling there for some other reason,” believes an official involved in tracking illegal money. And, clearly, he isn’t referring to the commerce ministry bureaucrats who’ve been flitting in and out of Geneva ever since the World Trade Organisation (WTO) negotiations went into a tailspin!
Just read the following details and note how these dishonest industrialists, scandalous politicians, corrupt officers, cricketers, film actors, illegal sex trade and protected wildlife operators, to name just a few, sucked this country’s wealth and prosperity. This may be the picture of deposits in Swiss banks only. What about other international banks?
Black money in Swiss banks — Swiss Banking Association report, 2006 details bank deposits in the territory of Switzerland by nationals of following countries:
Top five
India—- $1,456 billion
Russia —$ 470 billion
UK ——-$390 billion
Ukraine - $100 billion
China —–$ 96 billion
Now do the maths - India with $1456 billion or $1.4 trillion has more money in Swiss banks than rest of the world combined. Public loot since 1947:
Can we bring back our money? It is one of the biggest loots witnessed by mankind — the loot of the Aam Aadmi (common man) since 1947, by his brethren occupying public office. It has been orchestrated by politicians, bureaucrats and some businessmen.
The list is almost all-encompassing. No wonder, everyone in India loots with impunity and without any fear.
What is even more depressing in that this ill-gotten wealth of ours has been stashed away abroad into secret bank accounts located in some of the world’s best known tax havens. And to that extent the Indian economy has been stripped of its wealth.
Ordinary Indians may not be exactly aware of how such secret accounts operate and what are the rules and regulations that go on to govern such tax havens. However, one may well be aware of ‘Swiss bank accounts,’ the shorthand for murky dealings, secrecy and of course
pilferage from developing countries into rich developed ones.
In fact, some finance experts and economists believe tax havens to be a conspiracy of the western world against the poor countries. By allowing the proliferation of tax havens in the twentieth century, the western world explicitly encourages the movement of scarce capital
from the developing countries to the rich.
In March 2005, the Tax Justice Network (TJN) published a research finding demonstrating that $11.5 trillion of personal wealth was held offshore by rich individuals across the globe.
The findings estimated that a large proportion of this wealth was managed from some 70 tax havens. Further, augmenting these studies of TJN, Raymond Baker — in his widely
celebrated book titled ‘Capitalism’ s Achilles Heel: Dirty Money and How to Renew the Free Market System’ — estimates that at least $5 trillion have been shifted out of poorer countries to the West since the mid-1970.
It is further estimated by experts that one per cent of the world’s population holds more than 57 per cent of total global wealth, routing it invariably through these tax havens. How much of this is from India is anybody’s guess.
What is to be noted here is that most of the wealth of Indians parked in these tax havens is illegitimate money acquired through corrupt means.
Naturally, the secrecy associated with the bank accounts in such places is central to the issue, not their low tax rates as the term ‘tax havens’ suggests. Remember Bofors and how India could not trace the ultimate beneficiary of those transactions because of the secrecy
associated with these bank accounts? IS THERE ANY ONE WHO WOULD SAVE INDIA ?God... No No No, even he can’t..........!!
Ramesh C. Manghirmalani
Is India poor, who says? Ask Swiss banks
With personal account deposit bank of $1500 billion in foreign reserve which have been
misappropriated, an amount 13 times larger than the country’s foreign debt, one needs to rethink if India is a poor country?.
DISHONEST INDUSTRIALISTS, scandalous politicians and corrupt IAS, IRS,IPS officers have deposited in foreign banks in their illegal personal accounts a sum of about $ 1500 billion, which have been misappropriated by them.
This amount is about 13 times larger than the country’s foreign debt. With this amount 45 crore poor people can get Rs 1,00,000 each. This huge amount has been appropriated from the people of India by exploiting and betraying them.
Once this huge amount of black money and property comes back to India , the entire foreign debt can be repaid in 24 hours. After paying the entire foreign debt, we will have surplus amount, almost 12 times larger than the foreign debt. If this surplus amount is invested
in earning interest, the amount of interest will be more than the annual budget of the Central government. So even if all the taxes are abolished, then also the Central government will be able to maintain the country very comfortably.
Some 80,000 people travel to Switzerland every year, of whom 25,000 travel very frequently.
“Obviously, these people won’t be tourists. They must be traveling there for some other reason,” believes an official involved in tracking illegal money. And, clearly, he isn’t referring to the commerce ministry bureaucrats who’ve been flitting in and out of Geneva ever since the World Trade Organisation (WTO) negotiations went into a tailspin!
Just read the following details and note how these dishonest industrialists, scandalous politicians, corrupt officers, cricketers, film actors, illegal sex trade and protected wildlife operators, to name just a few, sucked this country’s wealth and prosperity. This may be the picture of deposits in Swiss banks only. What about other international banks?
Black money in Swiss banks — Swiss Banking Association report, 2006 details bank deposits in the territory of Switzerland by nationals of following countries:
Top five
India—- $1,456 billion
Russia —$ 470 billion
UK ——-$390 billion
Ukraine - $100 billion
China —–$ 96 billion
Now do the maths - India with $1456 billion or $1.4 trillion has more money in Swiss banks than rest of the world combined. Public loot since 1947:
Can we bring back our money? It is one of the biggest loots witnessed by mankind — the loot of the Aam Aadmi (common man) since 1947, by his brethren occupying public office. It has been orchestrated by politicians, bureaucrats and some businessmen.
The list is almost all-encompassing. No wonder, everyone in India loots with impunity and without any fear.
What is even more depressing in that this ill-gotten wealth of ours has been stashed away abroad into secret bank accounts located in some of the world’s best known tax havens. And to that extent the Indian economy has been stripped of its wealth.
Ordinary Indians may not be exactly aware of how such secret accounts operate and what are the rules and regulations that go on to govern such tax havens. However, one may well be aware of ‘Swiss bank accounts,’ the shorthand for murky dealings, secrecy and of course
pilferage from developing countries into rich developed ones.
In fact, some finance experts and economists believe tax havens to be a conspiracy of the western world against the poor countries. By allowing the proliferation of tax havens in the twentieth century, the western world explicitly encourages the movement of scarce capital
from the developing countries to the rich.
In March 2005, the Tax Justice Network (TJN) published a research finding demonstrating that $11.5 trillion of personal wealth was held offshore by rich individuals across the globe.
The findings estimated that a large proportion of this wealth was managed from some 70 tax havens. Further, augmenting these studies of TJN, Raymond Baker — in his widely
celebrated book titled ‘Capitalism’ s Achilles Heel: Dirty Money and How to Renew the Free Market System’ — estimates that at least $5 trillion have been shifted out of poorer countries to the West since the mid-1970.
It is further estimated by experts that one per cent of the world’s population holds more than 57 per cent of total global wealth, routing it invariably through these tax havens. How much of this is from India is anybody’s guess.
What is to be noted here is that most of the wealth of Indians parked in these tax havens is illegitimate money acquired through corrupt means.
Naturally, the secrecy associated with the bank accounts in such places is central to the issue, not their low tax rates as the term ‘tax havens’ suggests. Remember Bofors and how India could not trace the ultimate beneficiary of those transactions because of the secrecy
associated with these bank accounts? IS THERE ANY ONE WHO WOULD SAVE INDIA ?God... No No No, even he can’t..........!!
Ramesh C. Manghirmalani
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impossible - to get that money back - why would politcians who are real owner of that money - will give us detail of that black money ?????
why would they give the money and also face - charges aganst tehmselves ??? i doubt these corrupt biggers are so dumb. its just a propaganda to cool down the voice against black money . it will never come back to india.
why would they give the money and also face - charges aganst tehmselves ??? i doubt these corrupt biggers are so dumb. its just a propaganda to cool down the voice against black money . it will never come back to india.
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It is very difficult to bring back the money from Swiss-banks but with enough pressure along with OECD countries it can be possible. I say that, to make things easier for the people who have parked their illegal money in swiss-banks, they should be given an exit door and something for them to keep so that they don't feel as complete losers.
Its like this, people who bring back the money from swiss-bank to India can keep 10% of that money, the names will remain anonymous and there will be no legal action. It should be a carrot and stick policy.
Its like this, people who bring back the money from swiss-bank to India can keep 10% of that money, the names will remain anonymous and there will be no legal action. It should be a carrot and stick policy.
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what if we make all of this blakc money white ???? they just pay 30% of income tax or what ever ??????
that will be right way to go about it , atleast money will be back in market. it will noost our economy to unimaginable heights.
that will be right way to go about it , atleast money will be back in market. it will noost our economy to unimaginable heights.
thakur_ritesh
Ambassador
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A figure without any authentication, an economy of the size of 1.2t usd where black economy in circulation is expected to be to the tune of 50% of the gdp, and on top of all this the money in swiss banks, has any one even tried to calculate where was, and how was all this money generated or is it over night that India got that rich. Let us look at the figures Indian economy : 1.2t usd, black money in circulation : 50% of gdp – 0.6t usd, a suspected figure of black money in swiss banks : well well 1.5t usd, and all these figures put together, ah 3.2t usd as per today’s market rates, more of a joke than any thing else, may I add.
As far as getting the money back, another joke, one expects a thief to get back his loot and why would they do that? Opposition had a good vote garnering tactic during the recently gone by elections, they tried selling it but failed miserably, no one believes their bluff, oh the hawala scam and may I ask what happened to that? And we are expecting imaginary trillion (+) dollars to land in India.
In case this money is brought back, though that wont happen but still why limit my imagination since this whole discussion is based on imaginations, I am sure the government will let people claim the money, give them the option to turn it into white, no cases will be filed if they file their returns with in a specified time frame, no one will look into the source of this money or did the concerned person have any known means to generate such kind of money, the already super rich will get super-super rich, the list of these people will never be made public for they will always find an excuse of how it would be a risk to our national security, a meagre amount of this money any where between 20-25% will end up in government coffers, the ever greedy government official will again lay their hands on this money and I would be surprised if in reality India were to get any thing over 10-15% of what should have actually landed in the coffers of the country.
With the little over 200b usd that would land for good use my priority sectors will be health, education, and a small bit of it for the infrastructure. I have always believed a country can only prosper when its populace is well educated, here we have already done well on primary education front so the target areas would be above that level. India needs a very strong base for PhDs if we are to be the rising sun of this century a land from where most innovation takes place and with that I would like to focus on r&d sector. If a nation is not healthy, it has no future, so health is a priority any given day and to give a push for greater investments in the infrastructure sector from private sector would certainly invest a small bit there as well which would later on give returns by way of higher growth rate figures. Hope fully these 200b usd do not end up the way rajiv Gandhi said, of every rupee government spends, just 15p actually gets invested, so are we talking about 30b usd, and if that is how the story is to go, all I have got to say, what a waste of time, energy, resources and hey did I mention about the massive costs that will be incurred in all the processing, the bill of which will sure run into a few 10s of billions of dollars, so would this whole exercise a be a net loss?
Is it really worth the effort, ah yes a political and vote garnering toll for sure but only that much one would like to believe. This is India meri jaan!
As far as getting the money back, another joke, one expects a thief to get back his loot and why would they do that? Opposition had a good vote garnering tactic during the recently gone by elections, they tried selling it but failed miserably, no one believes their bluff, oh the hawala scam and may I ask what happened to that? And we are expecting imaginary trillion (+) dollars to land in India.
In case this money is brought back, though that wont happen but still why limit my imagination since this whole discussion is based on imaginations, I am sure the government will let people claim the money, give them the option to turn it into white, no cases will be filed if they file their returns with in a specified time frame, no one will look into the source of this money or did the concerned person have any known means to generate such kind of money, the already super rich will get super-super rich, the list of these people will never be made public for they will always find an excuse of how it would be a risk to our national security, a meagre amount of this money any where between 20-25% will end up in government coffers, the ever greedy government official will again lay their hands on this money and I would be surprised if in reality India were to get any thing over 10-15% of what should have actually landed in the coffers of the country.
With the little over 200b usd that would land for good use my priority sectors will be health, education, and a small bit of it for the infrastructure. I have always believed a country can only prosper when its populace is well educated, here we have already done well on primary education front so the target areas would be above that level. India needs a very strong base for PhDs if we are to be the rising sun of this century a land from where most innovation takes place and with that I would like to focus on r&d sector. If a nation is not healthy, it has no future, so health is a priority any given day and to give a push for greater investments in the infrastructure sector from private sector would certainly invest a small bit there as well which would later on give returns by way of higher growth rate figures. Hope fully these 200b usd do not end up the way rajiv Gandhi said, of every rupee government spends, just 15p actually gets invested, so are we talking about 30b usd, and if that is how the story is to go, all I have got to say, what a waste of time, energy, resources and hey did I mention about the massive costs that will be incurred in all the processing, the bill of which will sure run into a few 10s of billions of dollars, so would this whole exercise a be a net loss?
Is it really worth the effort, ah yes a political and vote garnering toll for sure but only that much one would like to believe. This is India meri jaan!
one problem is any leader trying to seriously to force Swiss banks and the country will be in trouble because he will lose support all the politicians who are corrupt and that corrupt ones will be in large numbers. they will either supress him or defame him or create obstacles for him. Not just politicians, but IAS officers and other upper management employees of Govt will also do everything to force leaders not to bring back the money.
Advani would talk so much when he is in opposition but he can't dare do anything big if he comes to power next time because he would lose support of all other senior leaders, MPs, MLAs etc
Advani would talk so much when he is in opposition but he can't dare do anything big if he comes to power next time because he would lose support of all other senior leaders, MPs, MLAs etc
Politicians are also men seeking profits. I think we can agree here.
Money is like water. It flows to where it can flow deapest without effort. I can assure you of that. I am an accountant.
China - Currency devalued 15% and FDI pays 15% tax compared to 30% for local chinese companies (i could be off but only a little). There is a very strong profit motive to earn at least 60% extra for 3year projected investment maturity cycle (15% devaluation and 15% at end of year 1, 15% at end of year 2, 15% at end of year 3 - compounding forgone for simplicity) all this by doing nothing extra just running a havala racket (i wonder what they call it in chinese). THEY ARE THE SINGLE BIGGEST MONEY LAUNDERING OPERATION IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.
India - VDI/VDIS is 30% and all white scheme that too with protection only under Income Tax Act (liability under other much more stringent laws remains).
Where would the money flow "30% cost with open liability option" or "60% ki freedom fighting"
LOL jahan free ka mila wahin fight kiya=freedom fighter)
It is obvious the money deposited with Swiss banks belongs to Indian politicians who are not competent enough to multiply there money by business investments ( Mostly businessmen in India usually make enough money in there own business that swiss option is not good enough for them at least till the time our regulations are lax and black money can be applied and white business without being caught). It is also obvious even the Swiss money managers will put this money in places where they can earn better returns (right now china) + windfall of 15% devaluation of local currency (right now china). China is a net investment right now and will remain so for quite some more time.
Imagine the cost of the 5th Column to India.
But the situation is actually not so grim for Indians. Money ka colour does not matter. Brown or white. Both are equally good. Goras have huge quantities of both Black and White money. Just concentrate on improving efficiencies (let our vaishyas do there job in a free and fair atmosphere, weaken the stranglehold of politicians on businesses by improving democratic institutions and parliamentary oversights, believe in Indian culture and populations which instinctively stops at red light even with Rs. 10 thulla culture, improve the ability of our middle class to live and die in a probalistic world). Then make sure politicians are not allowed to bring in there money ever and are penalised by having to keep there investments out of the best performing economy.
Lesson learnt - White money of White people is better then black money of black people.
Money is like water. It flows to where it can flow deapest without effort. I can assure you of that. I am an accountant.
China - Currency devalued 15% and FDI pays 15% tax compared to 30% for local chinese companies (i could be off but only a little). There is a very strong profit motive to earn at least 60% extra for 3year projected investment maturity cycle (15% devaluation and 15% at end of year 1, 15% at end of year 2, 15% at end of year 3 - compounding forgone for simplicity) all this by doing nothing extra just running a havala racket (i wonder what they call it in chinese). THEY ARE THE SINGLE BIGGEST MONEY LAUNDERING OPERATION IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.
India - VDI/VDIS is 30% and all white scheme that too with protection only under Income Tax Act (liability under other much more stringent laws remains).
Where would the money flow "30% cost with open liability option" or "60% ki freedom fighting"
LOL jahan free ka mila wahin fight kiya=freedom fighter)It is obvious the money deposited with Swiss banks belongs to Indian politicians who are not competent enough to multiply there money by business investments ( Mostly businessmen in India usually make enough money in there own business that swiss option is not good enough for them at least till the time our regulations are lax and black money can be applied and white business without being caught). It is also obvious even the Swiss money managers will put this money in places where they can earn better returns (right now china) + windfall of 15% devaluation of local currency (right now china). China is a net investment right now and will remain so for quite some more time.
Imagine the cost of the 5th Column to India.
But the situation is actually not so grim for Indians. Money ka colour does not matter. Brown or white. Both are equally good. Goras have huge quantities of both Black and White money. Just concentrate on improving efficiencies (let our vaishyas do there job in a free and fair atmosphere, weaken the stranglehold of politicians on businesses by improving democratic institutions and parliamentary oversights, believe in Indian culture and populations which instinctively stops at red light even with Rs. 10 thulla culture, improve the ability of our middle class to live and die in a probalistic world). Then make sure politicians are not allowed to bring in there money ever and are penalised by having to keep there investments out of the best performing economy.
Lesson learnt - White money of White people is better then black money of black people.
Indian needs to force Swiss banks to reveal names of Indian depositers like the US
Swiss banking giant UBS AG agreed Wednesday to turn over to the IRS the details of 4,450 accounts suspected of holding undeclared assets by American customers, ending an intense trans-Atlantic legal fight.
If the US can do it, why cant India ??? I think every citizen in India should be asking this question.
Indians have supposedly deposited $1.5 trillion in Swiss Banks.....This is higher than any other country in the world. While some of it may have been honestly earned money, I would estimate that 80% of that money is corrupt money.
By releasing the names of those people with deposits in Swiss banks publicly, the whole country will know who these individuals are and then they can individually defend their actions if they are innocent.
Even if the Indian government cant recover the money directly, they should be able to levy fines and even prison terms for tax evasion.
I doubt that the Indian government has the guts to do this.....but I hope it happens. Maybe public opinion in India can force this issue.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/20/business/global/20ubs.html?_r=1&hp
Swiss banking giant UBS AG agreed Wednesday to turn over to the IRS the details of 4,450 accounts suspected of holding undeclared assets by American customers, ending an intense trans-Atlantic legal fight.
If the US can do it, why cant India ??? I think every citizen in India should be asking this question.
Indians have supposedly deposited $1.5 trillion in Swiss Banks.....This is higher than any other country in the world. While some of it may have been honestly earned money, I would estimate that 80% of that money is corrupt money.
By releasing the names of those people with deposits in Swiss banks publicly, the whole country will know who these individuals are and then they can individually defend their actions if they are innocent.
Even if the Indian government cant recover the money directly, they should be able to levy fines and even prison terms for tax evasion.
I doubt that the Indian government has the guts to do this.....but I hope it happens. Maybe public opinion in India can force this issue.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/20/business/global/20ubs.html?_r=1&hp
LETHALFORCE
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USA has broken the flood gates after breaking the swiss banking secrecy laws, everyone will have to find a new place to hide their money.
That's true, but the other traditional places are not very stable and mostly small islands.
People with large amounts in the multi-millions may not feel secure investing in Cayman Islands or some small state.
If only India can force the Swiss government to reveal the names and the amounts, then the Indian goverment bodies can go after these people even if they move their stuff out of Swiss banks.
People with large amounts in the multi-millions may not feel secure investing in Cayman Islands or some small state.
If only India can force the Swiss government to reveal the names and the amounts, then the Indian goverment bodies can go after these people even if they move their stuff out of Swiss banks.
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mattster check this thread
http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/global-economy/974-swiss-black-money-can-take-india-top.html
Indian govt. already has some names of Swiss-bank account holders that it got from Germany government.
http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/global-economy/974-swiss-black-money-can-take-india-top.html
Indian govt. already has some names of Swiss-bank account holders that it got from Germany government.
