Balkanization of Pakistan

[I_PLAY_BAD]

It is inevitable. They are doing enough themselves. With US aid gone, it will fall down quickly. Question is whether India can play a bigger role in destabilizing it?

India is different to Pakistan than any other country.
Pakistan will use extreme options even if India plays a minor role. With that in mind, India will think twice before indulging in such a quest.

 

[Kshatriya87]

RAW literally has a lot of pressure to perform a lot of tasks. But are they being given sufficient budget?

We'll never know their "true" budget. But since Modi and Doval are in charge, they must be getting plenty.

 

[Kshatriya87]

Balkanization of Pakistan is never going to happen.
So pardon me for throwing a spanner on your wet dreams.
Unless Pakistan is sucking the d****s of US and China it is completely safe and secure.

It has been sucking since its so called independence. All these Indo-Pak wars. Tell me one time when either USA or China significantly helped them out? In fact, even Russia openly supported us in front of international media (it was either in 65 or 71), but I didn't see US, China, Saudis, Turkey etc. helping pakis.

As a matter of fact, we can actually lure USA into helping us out. We can propose to let them have a large land for a military base. They would love to have a base so close to China.

 

[I_PLAY_BAD]

It has been sucking since its so called independence. All these Indo-Pak wars. Tell me one time when either USA or China significantly helped them out? In fact, even Russia openly supported us in front of international media (it was either in 65 or 71), but I didn't see US, China, Saudis, Turkey etc. helping pakis.

Veiled support is more effective than an open support.
Enough said.

 

[Razor]

1. question to everyone discussing in this thread.
Do you all seriously think Balkanization of Pakistan is going to be a reality at some point of time in the future ?
I seriously don't know. 2. I am amazed looking at the level of vigor and confidence you guys are discussing about this. Wish and reality are different.

1. I posted in the first couple of pages on this thread, and I didn't read after that since it gets repetitive; in any case as you can see from my posts, I think the chances of pak being in one piece is greater than it disintegrating.
Some posters here seem to think that only india has interests in pakistan; in fact many other countries do, and they will try to prevent disintegration. Add to that Islam in pakistan and the presence of india to the east is also a unifying effect. Also the secessionist movements in pakistan is not as strong as some posters here think.
In addition, Pakistan moving away from the US and closer to China is actually good for paks stability. Why? Because China is a neighbor and therefore, unlike the US, has greater interest in pakistan's stability.

2. And as for second point, this is the internet: everyone is 6'2" with an IQ of 140+, and knows almost everything.
Look at Romas posts, they read like some fantasy stories.

 

[Razor]

It has been sucking since its so called independence. All these Indo-Pak wars. Tell me one time when either USA or China significantly helped them out? In fact, even Russia openly supported us in front of international media (it was either in 65 or 71), but I didn't see US, China, Saudis, Turkey etc. helping pakis.

As a matter of fact, we can actually lure USA into helping us out. We can propose to let them have a large land for a military base. They would love to have a base so close to China.

They already have plenty of bases, close to China.
Also the US seems to be concentrating on Russia now rather than China.

 

[Kshatriya87]

Veiled support is more effective than an open support.
Enough said.

I wouldn't agree. Veiled support can never be as powerful and as effective as open support.

 

[Kshatriya87]

They already have plenty of bases, close to China.
Also the US seems to be concentrating on Russia now rather than China.

A base on the west - south-west corridor? Also, a large base there will provide effective restriction to the Chinese navy from spreading its influence in the Arabian sea.

 

[Kshatriya87]

Pakistan will balkanize sooner or later. But let's make sure we don't take back even one inch of that land. We have enough domestic problems as it is, we don't want to be infested with that shit. We have no interest in becoming another failed state.

Last of all PoK. That is highly radicalized and a Jihadi hotbed. There is no need to take over that territory. Similarly, Pakjab and Sindh and Balochistan can go their own way.

The only region I am interested in, is Gilgit-Baltistan. Primarily because they have a route for us to access Central Asian resources through the Wukhan corridor. That is what we need. Probably have GB as a vassal state with sovereignty, but with foreign policy and defence in Indian control.

I do not see any problems in taking back PoK or any piece of land just as long as we do not let the paki population stay. They should be forced to migrate to whatever's left of pakland. Also, GB is a very mouth watering territory due to its beauty and attraction for tourism but then again, China has its interests there as well and is already significantly involved there. It won't be easy.

 

[I_PLAY_BAD]

I wouldn't agree. Veiled support can never be as powerful and as effective as open support.

That is your opinion and I respect it.

 

[Razor]

A base on the west - south-west corridor? Also, a large base there will provide effective restriction to the Chinese navy from spreading its influence in the Arabian sea.

The East as you know is littered with massive American bases, i.e. what I mean tin my post.
As for West: Afghanistan, does not count as West?
US also had a base in Kyrgyzstan, which closed last year.
Agreed on the 2nd point.

 

[Razor]

1971 would not be possible without USSR balancing the West. Kissinger and Nixon even tried to get PRC to sent their forces on our border. When it comes to us, interests of Han imperialists, West and Pakis/Islamists converge.

It was not just balancing that the SU did.
As per ex-KGB agent Yuri Bezmenov who worked undercover for several years in India and later defected to Canada, the SU played an active role in encouraging agitation against Pakistan in BD, in the early days. In addition he says that SU consulates in India were used for smuggling weapons into BD.

 

[Kshatriya87]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Here's some medicine for your laughter

http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/6-government-officials-abducted-in-pakistan-1217640

http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/paki...nce-drones-in-violence-hit-balochistan-780680

http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/gunm...us-passengers-in-pakistans-balochistan-767182

http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/paki...llet-riddled-body-found-in-balochistan-724453

http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/8-shot-dead-in-pakistans-balochistan-province-683379

http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/bomb-attack-kills-three-in-pakistan-663353

http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/pak-troops-kill-11-militants-in-balochistan-576501

http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/four-killed-in-incidents-of-firing-in-pakistan-558036

http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/nine-killed-in-violence-in-balochistan-550260

 

[Kshatriya87]

question to everyone discussing in this thread.
Do you all seriously think Balkanization of Pakistan is going to be a reality at some point of time in the future ?
I seriously don't know. I am amazed looking at the level of vigor and confidence you guys are discussing about this. Wish and reality are different.

I'm amazed at the confidence level as well. Even though I like to believe it will, I know it won't happen on its own. The PA & ISI are too brutal to let it happen. Voices are crushed even before they shout in balochistan. They are killing people there just on the slightest suspicion of a rebellion.

If and only if we interfere i.e. support balochi separatist leaders internationally and provide a massive influx of arms & ammunitions in the land and hands of balochis, is it possible. We HAVE to internationalize the issue before the rebellion is crushed.

 

[Kshatriya87]

India is different to Pakistan than any other country.
Pakistan will use extreme options even if India plays a minor role. With that in mind, India will think twice before indulging in such a quest.

Based on the talks, I think India is already playing a minor role in balochistan covertly. And the pakis know it too. They tried to tell the UN about this in their so called "dossiers" which the UN utterly rejected and claimed it has no evidence against India. So, NO. Pakis have not used any extreme options yet and will not use until and unless we march our army in there.

 

[Srinivas_K]

It has been sucking since its so called independence. All these Indo-Pak wars. Tell me one time when either USA or China significantly helped them out? In fact, even Russia openly supported us in front of international media (it was either in 65 or 71), but I didn't see US, China, Saudis, Turkey etc. helping pakis.

As a matter of fact, we can actually lure USA into helping us out. We can propose to let them have a large land for a military base. They would love to have a base so close to China.

If USA has not intervened west Pakistan, there would have been another war against west Pakistan in 1971.

USA and west are the ones who trained, given advanced weaponry, gave aid to bring Pakistan, trained their pilots, etc...etc.. to bring Pakistan to the level of India.

Muslim countries did helped Pakistan during wars by giving weapons etc...etc...,

It was Bharat which is kept confined to S.Asia in this game plan , this allowed Pakistanis to rant and hurt India all these days.

 

[Kshatriya87]

If USA has not intervened west Pakistan, there would have been another war against west Pakistan in 1971.

"During" the war, USA sent the navy to help Pakistan but by the time it came, the war was over. - Christine Fair

USA and west are the ones who trained, given advanced weaponry, gave aid to bring Pakistan, trained their pilots, etc...etc.. to bring Pakistan to the level of India.

Yes, these are peacetime helpings. I'm talking about directly assisting in times of war against India. USA did not come forward then and this is what angers pakis most. This is why they lean towards china more.

Muslim countries did helped Pakistan during wars by giving weapons etc...etc...,

I do not know about this. Please tell me more.

It was Bharat which is kept confined to S.Asia in this game plan , this allowed Pakistanis to rant and hurt India all these days.

Yes, but it was Bharat which despite all this crushed pakis so openly in front of the world and they couldn't do a thing. Giving weapons, signing treaties etc. doesn't mean anything if during wartime these countries do not come forward to assist you. Like USA abandons pakis everytime (save 71 when it was too late) they go to war with India.

 

[Srinivas_K]

"During" the war, USA sent the navy to help Pakistan but by the time it came, the war was over. - Christine Fair



Yes, these are peacetime helpings. I'm talking about directly assisting in times of war against India. USA did not come forward then and this is what angers pakis most. This is why they lean towards china more.



I do not know about this. Please tell me more.



Yes, but it was Bharat which despite all this crushed pakis so openly in front of the world and they couldn't do a thing. Giving weapons, signing treaties etc. doesn't mean anything if during wartime these countries do not come forward to assist you. Like USA abandons pakis everytime (save 71 when it was too late) they go to war with India.

Why would any one help the Pakistan which want to conquer India?

All the wars started by Pakistan not India. It is like I want to beat a big guy because my book says so and I need support from you.

 

[Screambowl]

It is inevitable. They are doing enough themselves. With US aid gone, it will fall down quickly. Question is whether India can play a bigger role in destabilizing it?

The balkanisation is important to finish Kashmir issue and to denuclearize Pakistan.

We cannot live in an environment for next 100 with two neighbour having nuclear tip missiles and hostile to us. You need to reduce it two to one. And it should be quick.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

1. I posted in the first couple of pages on this thread, and I didn't read after that since it gets repetitive; in any case as you can see from my posts, I think the chances of pak being in one piece is greater than it disintegrating.
Some posters here seem to think that only india has interests in pakistan; in fact many other countries do, and they will try to prevent disintegration. Add to that Islam in pakistan and the presence of india to the east is also a unifying effect. Also the secessionist movements in pakistan is not as strong as some posters here think.
In addition, Pakistan moving away from the US and closer to China is actually good for paks stability. Why? Because China is a neighbor and therefore, unlike the US, has greater interest in pakistan's stability.

2. And as for second point, this is the internet: everyone is 6'2" with an IQ of 140+, and knows almost everything.
Look at Romas posts, they read like some fantasy stories.

Question is should India pursue it as a policy or not? We can calculate odds once we know our objectives.