'The Real Axis of Evil'

[Galaxy]

'The Real Axis of Evil'

​

An interview with Bahukutumbi Raman.
From the Oct. 21, 2011, issue.


Currently heading an intelligence think tank in Chennai, Raman served in India's Research and Analysis Wing for 28 years—from its inception in 1964 until his retirement in 1994. Raman was head of RAW's counterterrorism division, and an additional secretary of the Cabinet Secretariat. Newsweek Pakistan's Jahanzeb Aslam spoke with him on email recently. Excerpts:​

What has India's role been in the U.S.-led war on terror?

India's primary role is exchange of intelligence, knowledge, experience and capabilities, and mutual assistance in legal matters with interested countries, including the U.S.

How do you see anti-terror cooperation between Pakistan and India?

I don't see there being much scope for intelligence exchange or mutual legal assistance between India and Pakistan since the bulk of New Delhi's jihadist threat originates from Pakistan-based organizations that are allegedly under the control of the ISI. Terrorism has historically been one of the weapons in Pakistan's anti-India arsenal, and it is not in their interest to blunt that weapon. This does not mean there should be no institutional interface between the ISI and RAW; in fact it is essential to reduce the high level of distrust between the two agencies.

What long-term role do you see for India in Afghanistan?

India can help prevent the Taliban from regaining a foothold in Afghan society by helping economic development and the spread of modern education. We can also assist Afghanistan in strengthening the capabilities of its armed forces.

Is the Haqqani network still based in Pakistan?

My assessment is that the Haqqani network no longer operates from North Waziristan. It now operates from Pakistan's Kurram Agency. The cadres and the training camps are in Kurram, but the leaders, who are high-value targets for U.S. drone attacks, are spread out across the country to avoid airborne attacks. The cadres carry out hit-and-withdraw raids into Afghanistan.

Does India benefit from souring Pakistan-U.S. relations?

The U.S. will never strategically cooperate with India against Pakistan. While the CIA and the Pentagon are not averse to ideas of limited Indo-U.S. cooperation in dealing with threats originating from Pakistan, the State Department has always been cautious in endorsing such ideas. I saw this when I was in service and I continue to see this in my retirement. The only role India can play is to keep nudging the U.S. to act more strongly against Pakistan without unrealistic hopes that the U.S. will, in fact, do so. When the U.S. talks of strategic cooperation with India, it has China in mind, not Pakistan.

Does India still consider Pakistan its greatest threat?

India is fully capable of dealing with Pakistan and has no concerns. What we are worried about is the increasing strategic threat from the developing Sino-Pakistani axis. Washington does not seem to view this alliance with the same concern as India. This developing axis is the real axis of evil.

Will there ever be peace between Pakistan and India?

It is very unlikely that Pakistan and India will enjoy good, neighborly relations in the short- and medium-term. The Pakistan Army still considers India a major enemy and such complexes will always come in the way. This doesn't mean the two countries should not try for a more benign, friendlier approach to each other. There is a need for a common vision. The leaders of both countries need to meet more frequently to get to know each other, and like each other, and work painstakingly without undue expectations toward a common goal of peace.

After Al Qaeda, which terrorist group is the biggest threat to stability in South Asia?

Lashkar-e-Taiba, the Harkat-ul-Jihad al-Islami, Jaish-e-Mohammad, Harkat-ul-Mujahideen and the two Taliban factions, in that order, are probably the biggest threats to the region. I do not consider the Haqqani network as a separate terrorist organization, as it is a wing of the Afghan Taliban with some autonomous operations.

Bahukutumbi Raman | 'The Real Axis of Evil'

 

[ALBY]

The relevant question is that, who all are constituting the real axis of evil?

 

[trackwhack]

Does India benefit from souring Pakistan-U.S. relations?

The U.S. will never strategically cooperate with India against Pakistan. While the CIA and the Pentagon are not averse to ideas of limited Indo-U.S. cooperation in dealing with threats originating from Pakistan, the State Department has always been cautious in endorsing such ideas. I saw this when I was in service and I continue to see this in my retirement. The only role India can play is to keep nudging the U.S. to act more strongly against Pakistan without unrealistic hopes that the U.S. will, in fact, do so. When the U.S. talks of strategic cooperation with India, it has China in mind, not Pakistan.

This was exactly what I mentioned in the debate with ace009, Egwald and Jaytal on the Indian ICBM thread.

The US views India as a hedge against China, that is the be-all and end-all of the Indo-US ties. Any Indian or American viewing the Indo-US alliance as anything more than that is treading water - fast.

Now watch the loonies go at it.

 

[Galaxy]

Main points:

1> US is still friend of Pakistan and it will maintain balance relation. Don't expect too much.
2> India is worried on Sino-Pakistan Axis. Pakistan is not the concern due to our strong capability.
3> US wants to make good relation with India to counter China and nothing to do with Pakistan.
4> India wants stronghold in Afghanistan in long run.
5> Today, ISI is involved in many terrorist activity in India.

Rest of the points are mostly known

The relevant question is that, who all are constituting the real axis of evil?

SINO-PAKISTAN - Concern for India.
TALIBAN-PAKISTAN - Concern in Afghanistan.

 

[ALBY]

main point:

1> us is still friend of pakistan and it will maintain balance relation. Don't expect too much.
2> india is worried on sino-pakistan axis. Pakistan is not the concern due to our strong capability.
3> us wants to make good relation with india to counter china and nothing to do with pakistan.
4> india wants stronghold in afghanistan in long run.
5> today, isi is involved in many terrorist activity in india.

Rest of the points are mostly known

don't neglect pakistan coz they still possess nukes..as far as they have them we couldn't sleep well...
Don't worry about isi..who knows the raw is behind all these mess happening in pak

 

[Galaxy]

don't neglect pakistan coz they still possess nukes..as far as they have them we couldn't sleep well...
Don't worry about isi..who knows the raw is behind all these mess happening in pak

True. But that will be concern forever because Pakistan will always have nuke. What we can do is - 1) To improve our defence capability (Conventional war) at least 5-7 vis-a-vis Pakistan, 2) Develop strong defence shield like multi layer of ABM, network of Intel, satellite for this work. 3)Continue to have good relation with most of the countries in that region. I think we are on right track, But we are slow. Pakistan will loose in big way, Once Difference between India-Pak will be 5-7 times in defence capability and 15-20 times in Size of economy. Possible in long run.

 

[trackwhack]

One day its going to come down to - Which Indian leader will have the balls to do a Cuba on Pakistan? Tell China to get the fk out or they will have it.

Our foriegn policy should state that any nuclear violation by Pakistan will be consdidered a nuclear violation by China.

For how long are we going to allow China to enhance Pakistans destructive capacity. How can we not consider this as an act of agression by China? Spineless toads the chinks are. They dont have the balls to face us so they feed the lunacy that is Pakistan.

 

[thakur_ritesh]

Does India benefit from souring Pakistan-U.S. relations?

The U.S. will never strategically cooperate with India against Pakistan. While the CIA and the Pentagon are not averse to ideas of limited Indo-U.S. cooperation in dealing with threats originating from Pakistan, the State Department has always been cautious in endorsing such ideas. I saw this when I was in service and I continue to see this in my retirement. The only role India can play is to keep nudging the U.S. to act more strongly against Pakistan without unrealistic hopes that the U.S. will, in fact, do so. When the U.S. talks of strategic cooperation with India, it has China in mind, not Pakistan.

that pretty much sums up the indo-US relations as they stand, and coming from someone of the stature of b raman, well, that pretty much says a lot, if not all.

over expectations and people are bound to be disappointed, with this as a back ground, we need to make most from this relationship and this relationship of US-pak also acts as a leverage on having some sort of a say on pakistan through the US, its good for us on the short to mid term basis but questionable on long term basis, because this very pakistan and the kashmir issue could well be used against us on long term basis in case we were to come across as threatening to the US.

i am sure, when US says strategic relationship with pakistan, they have india and china on their minds.

 

[ALBY]

one day its going to come down to - which indian leader will have the balls to do a cuba on pakistan? Tell china to get the fk out or they will have it.

our foriegn policy should state that any nuclear violation by pakistan will be consdidered a nuclear violation by china.

for how long are we going to allow china to enhance pakistans destructive capacity. How can we not consider this as an act of agression by china? Spineless toads the chinks are. They dont have the balls to face us so they feed the lunacy that is pakistan.

may be we have to dug out indira out of grave to do it..

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Who argues for a war with Pakistan, the defeat of its armed forces, and the occupation of its lands by the US or India? Has anyone here said clearly that is the course to take, or are we dancing around the question? Which country would be the occupier? And how far would those actions push China?

I've seen some real tall words from some posters here.

 

[agentperry]

USA is no closer to India and have no concern over the Indian concerns. this is a universal truth.
regarding pakistan only good dominating relations can benefit India
regarding china its better to be prepared.

 

[Tianshan]

Spineless toads the chinks are.

yes, i agree. we chink people are spineless and pose no threat.

so stop worrying about us, thank you.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Carthago delenda est

Does India have its Cato?

 

[Adux]

For how long are we going to allow China to enhance Pakistans destructive capacity. How can we not consider this as an act of agression by China? Spineless toads the chinks are. They dont have the balls to face us so they feed the lunacy that is Pakistan.

If anything, the reality of the above statement make us Indians look like spineless pacifist toads

 

[SPIEZ]

Who argues for a war with Pakistan, the defeat of its armed forces, and the occupation of its lands by the US or India? Has anyone here said clearly that is the course to take, or are we dancing around the question? Which country would be the occupier? And how far would those actions push China?

I've seen some real tall words from some posters here.

As far as I can see nobody is arguing for a war or occupation. We are arguing for peace or at least asking Foreign powers to stay the f**k away from our business

 

[W.G.Ewald]

As far as I can see nobody is arguing for a war or occupation. We are arguing for peace or at least asking Foreign powers to stay the f**k away from our business

I think I have seen opinions here that the US should take over Pakistan. Perhaps I am mistaken. In that event, US troops would remain in Pakistan as they have in Iraq and so many other places.

why are there several thousand American troops still in Bosnia, The Gulf Region, Kosovo, and Korea?"

U.S. Military --Do You Know Where Your Soldiers Are? - U.S. Military

 

[thakur_ritesh]

As far as I can see nobody is arguing for a war or occupation. We are arguing for peace or at least asking Foreign powers to stay the f**k away from our business

he has every right to have a say, take it easy!

 

[trackwhack]

If anything, the reality of the above statement make us Indians look like spineless pacifist toads

Which is why I said, are we going to get a leader who will face up and say enough is enough. If India and Pakistan nuke each other who do you think is gonna be laughing? The Americans and the Chinese.

While on one hand the Chinese are arming Pakistan to the tooth, on the other hand the Americans are provoking Pakistan and pushing them closer to conflict. Pakistan does not have the reach or means to fight the Americans. Where do you think their missiles are headed?

 

[W.G.Ewald]

he has every right to have a say, take it easy!

SPIEZ made a clear statement about foreign powers; don't blame him.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Which is why I said, are we going to get a leader who will face up and say enough is enough. If India and Pakistan nuke each other who do you think is gonna be laughing? The Americans and the Chinese.

While on one hand the Chinese are arming Pakistan to the tooth, on the other hand the Americans are provoking Pakistan and pushing them closer to conflict. Pakistan does not have the reach or means to fight the Americans. Where do you think their missiles are headed?

You know what is really funny? Nobody talks about the United Nations as a solution to anything anymore.

Maybe not so funny, really. :-(