Astra BVRAAM

[rohit b3]

Random topic, but i noticed that between 2003-2019 , Astra was test fired 44 times with a success rate of over 90% (40/44) .
Are so many tests normal for a BVR missile ? Or another ploy to delay induction to get a window to buy Israeli maal?

 

[Bleh]

Random topic, but i noticed that between 2003-2019 , Astra was test fired 44 times with a success rate of over 90% (40/44) .
Are so many tests normal for a BVR missile ? Or another ploy to delay induction to get a window to buy Israeli maal?

That ain't mean shit. Our test vehicles are bullshit.

Consider the 10G capable unmanned QF-16 drone, a hollow f-16 shell, for testing & training both.

Testing against that would give meaningful estimation of the BVR's capabilities. What India tests against on the other hand is only 3G capable and subsonic too.

So we don't really know what exactly the Astra will do on field against real fighter jets doing real evasive manoeuvres. It is all theoretical. See how Paki AIM-120s flopped on 27th.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

DRDO Brochures of Astra use the term CCM which means Close Combat Missile, ie WVR missile or rather suitable in close combat also

 

[IndianHawk]

That ain't mean shit. Our test vehicles are bullshit.

Consider the 10G capable unmanned QF-16 drone, a hollow f-16 shell, for testing & training both. View attachment 44792Testing against that would give meaningful estimation of the BVR's capabilities. What India tests against on the other hand is only 3G capable and subsonic too.

So we don't really know what exactly the Astra will do on field against real fighter jets doing real evasive manoeuvres. It is all theoretical. See how Paki AIM-120s flopped on 27th.

Astra is rated for 40g at sea level. Now how many g can it pull in higher altitude I don't know . But should be enough to tackle anything at 10-12 g. BTW human pilot won't go beyond 8-9 g that too for a very very short interval.

Aim120 flopped because they were against monstrous jammers of su30 mki. Astra seeker is further evolved then aim120c5 which is actually quite old.( Newer version are c7/d which porky don't have).

Most porky and chini aircrafts ( j17, j10 , older f16 , older su27 copies of China) neither have jamming power of su30 mki nor sophistication. Astra will be deadly for them .

 

[IndianHawk]

Random topic, but i noticed that between 2003-2019 , Astra was test fired 44 times with a success rate of over 90% (40/44) .
Are so many tests normal for a BVR missile ? Or another ploy to delay induction to get a window to buy Israeli maal?

It's our first bvr so more tests were necessary. Later version can do with less.

 

[IndianHawk]

DRDO Brochures of Astra use the term CCM which means Close Combat Missile, ie WVR missile or rather suitable in close combat also

It can be used as ccm also but because it's mainly a bvr it might not be as effective as dedicated ccm like asraam . That's why drdo and iaf are working towards a new dedicated ccm which could fit into weapons bay of amca.

 

[Bleh]

Astra is rated for 40g at sea level. Now how many g can it pull in higher altitude I don't know . But should be enough to tackle anything at 10-12 g. BTW human pilot won't go beyond 8-9 g that too for a very very short interval.

Every BVR has several times higher G-limit than any jet... They still can be avoided by correct manoeuvres because of their several times higher speed.
Whatever it is, all on papers right now. Nothing is confirmed.

Anyways suit yourself. You could be right too.

 

[IndianHawk]

Every BVR has several times higher G-limit than any jet... They still can be avoided by correct manoeuvres because of their several times higher speed.
Whatever it is, all on papers right now. Nothing is confirmed.

Anyways suit yourself. You could be right too.

Jets don't have higher speed then bvr missiles. Astra moves at 4-5 mach ! Which jet can escape it?

Yes there tactics to avoid bvr :: stay away from nez of enemy missile. Use thrust vectoring to change plane of jet. Or ultimately jam them . We know most of our enemy jets neither have thrust vectors nor enough jamming power leaving them with only option of staying out of nez of Astra. Which is classified but can be guess based upon nez of aim c5 / c7.

That's why dual pulse missile like derby er are so deadly they improve nez and provide boost to missile in end game. Astra mk2 will do just that .

 

[IndianHawk]

BTW hv thakur has stated that Astra is coming in huge numbers with fleet wide integration in both IAF and IN . He also stated meteor costs 20cr while other imported bvr are 10 cr approx while Astra is much cheaper !

 

[Bleh]

Jets don't have higher speed then bvr missiles. Astra moves at 4-5 mach ! Which jet can escape it?

No I meant the BVRs have several times higher speed -_-

The basic tactics to avoid BVRs (without EW) are based on the fact that they track the lead of the jet, thus to turn in manner that the BPR miscalculates. Once it does, it cannot correct itself anymore because of its extremely high speed and overshoots.

 

[WARREN SS]

Abhinandan knew that f16 had maws. That means r77 would alert f16 in advance and reduce chances for a close r73 hit even more. Perhaps that's the part of tactics he learned in training or perhaps it was a gut decision. Fact is we don't know why is did what he did. Speculation should not negate the achievement.

Mig21 was too close to the enemy so it is possible it may have faced some jamming. But once inside porky airspace he didn't have much options even with awacs support. The only way for him to come back in time was to let go of f16 but he rather chose to instill fear of God in the minds of paf.

The downed f16 is nightmarish psychological wound for paf so much so that they can't even openly admit it and came up with fake su30 story to soothe themselves. But the fact that porky completely closed airspace for 6 months show how scared they were actually. That's what iaf achieved on 27 Feb. Paf is on defensive and scared .

My theory Is Counter Abhi Has Broken the ROE And Left His Wing man alone He violated Service rules
Even a Rookie Knows You cannot Take 2 :1 Ratio in Air-combat He Was Chasing two 2 F-16 dual seaters*4 pilots)
Even If He has Locked the One F-16. He Is should Have known that other Wing Man Will have 90 % Shooting probability of Putting him down

The Real Physiological Shocker To GHQ Pindi Boys Was on 26 Feb Balakot raid When 12 Mirage-2000 Crossed into Pakistani Airspace and bombed target 80 Km deep in to Pakistan Main land Making There Whole Air Defense Apparatus Impotent.
Real hero's For Whole Operation (Hope they get Enough credit like Abhinandan)

It was Disaster For ISPR to explain this humiliation to its Fanatic Extremist Public

Abhi downing Some how given them Face Saving And good PR To Fool there Illiterate Mass For One more Decade

 

[ArgonPrime]

My theory Is Counter Abhi Has Broken the ROE And Left His Wing man alone He violated Service rules
Even a Rookie Knows You cannot Take 2 :1 Ratio in Air-combat He Was Chasing two 2 F-16 dual seaters*4 pilots)
Even If He has Locked the One F-16. He Is should Have known that other Wing Man Will have 90 % Shooting probability of Putting him down

The Real Physiological Shocker To GHQ Pindi Boys Was on 26 Feb Balakot raid When 12 Mirage-2000 Crossed into Pakistani Airspace and bombed target 80 Km deep in to Pakistan Main land Making There Whole Air Defense Apparatus Impotent.
Real hero's For Whole Operation (Hope they get Enough credit like Abhinandan)

It was Disaster For ISPR to explain this humiliation to its Fanatic Extremist Public

Abhi downing Some how given them Face Saving And good PR To Fool there Illiterate Mass For One more Decade

You're wasting your time buddy.

 

[indiatester]

You're wasting your time buddy.

I tried to give a response and then deleted it

 

[Kchontha]

Guys stay on topic.........30 character.....,

 

[Bleh]

....................... ...

 

[Hydra3]

Astra is rated for 40g at sea level. Now how many g can it pull in higher altitude I don't know . But should be enough to tackle anything at 10-12 g. BTW human pilot won't go beyond 8-9 g that too for a very very short interval.

Aim120 flopped because they were against monstrous jammers of su30 mki. Astra seeker is further evolved then aim120c5 which is actually quite old.( Newer version are c7/d which porky don't have).

Most porky and chini aircrafts ( j17, j10 , older f16 , older su27 copies of China) neither have jamming power of su30 mki nor sophistication. Astra will be deadly for them .

Aim 120c was faild because it was launched a very far target, in feb27 case against mki. Asper IAF itself, they have saved the aircraft with simple evasive maneuvers. If my memories are correct, they didn't claim that they have jammed the aim120c. And it is logical too, aim120c is programed to home the jamming signals a wise decision by IAF not to jam aim at greater distance unnecessarily it will give guidence to your own aircraft.

And how you are saying that astra seeker is further evolved than aim120c?

 

[Chinmoy]

Question:
What is the minimum range for a BVR? Can Astra be used as a CCM?

I mean in WVR if you have the bandit witin your radar's field of vision, can you use radar-guideds?

Anything beyond 25 Km is BVR because that is the range of any pilot's view in a normal condition. So minimum range of a BVR is technically 25Km.

ASTRA in its current form can't be used as a CCM as it's not RADAR which plays an important role in CCM.

 

[porky_kicker]

ASTRA in its current form can't be used as a CCM as it's not RADAR which plays an important role in CCM.

I will beg to differ kindof

Any radar guided missile is not an optimal solution for use as a CCM .

but nevertheless it is the next best option in LOBL mode if one runs out of IR/IIR CCMs.

So
ASTRA in its current form is not the optimal solution for use as a CCM but if situation demands it is can be used as a CCM in LOBL mode.

 

[AbRaj]

Anything beyond 25 Km is BVR because that is the range of any pilot's view in a normal condition. So minimum range of a BVR is technically 25Km.

ASTRA in its current form can't be used as a CCM as it's not RADAR which plays an important role in CCM.

I think it’s nautical Miles. 25 nautical miles

 

[Hydra3]

I think it’s nautical Miles. 25 nautical miles

Its in km, 25NM means, its BVR