Astra BVRAAM

Guest

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So it means that if we fire 2 aastras one with Ku band seeker and another with X seeker then the chances are higher that enemy ac is destroyed.

Back then there were some reports that L band of Pakfa will be used to search targets and guide missiles. I understand that L band is not good enough for targeting.

Is it possible to use two primary radars with different frequency to guide missiles towards the target!?
Yes the chances of interception will be high-

L-band would be a search radar- It would be able to see target where main radar cannot see- and alert the pilot-
L-band cannot produce sharp enough bean to do the guidance part-

Guidance part can be done by higher frequency radar like X-band or S-band-

No- It can provide course correction via data link- but main guidance will be done by one radar-
 
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Chinmoy

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So it means that if we fire 2 aastras one with Ku band seeker and another with X seeker then the chances are higher that enemy ac is destroyed.

Back then there were some reports that L band of Pakfa will be used to search targets and guide missiles. I understand that L band is not good enough for targeting.

Is it possible to use two primary radars with different frequency to guide missiles towards the target!?
When guiding any AAM, there are two basic way to do that. One is SRH another INS. Through L band RADAR, you could only detect the fighter but not target it as @Guest already said. So here comes the second part, how to guide it. For that one way is to light up the target with your RADAR and guide the AAM upto it. But here you would lose your stealth as the enemy would get the RADAR paint job detected.

Second way, which is used by almost all the modern fighters, is INS. Your targeting computer do the math and guide the AAM in a simple and sort of ballistic path. There is no guidance, neither active nor passive till the point of interception. At this point the active guidance or the RADAR of the missile kicks in.

Here one more interesting thing to notice is, its not only the firing platform which has to target the enemy. Targeting part could be carried out by another platform too. Mig 31 had done that with their buddy pair and work is on way to use AWACS and other airborne platform for it.
 

scatterStorm

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Now what you have said regarding advantages and drawbacks are extremely well taken. But one thing which we forget about AAM missiles or any Anti Aircraft missile is what are the factors which would act against it and how to overcome it. For any AAM the first challenge is to overcome the RADOME error slope. Now this could be easily overcome to maximum extent in lab. But when you have to take into account the environmental variables, no coding could make it even 95% accurate. For that purpose you need to have to work your way through compromise.

High frequency RADAR are absolutely brilliant for tracking and targeting, but other interesting thing about these is how easy it is to fool them. The 5th gen fighter tech is all about stealth and by stealth I am not only talking about RAM coating. A stealth fighter is more about its geometry then the coating. These are designed to deflect the RADAR wave and all the current 5th gen are effective to an extent in it. Now Ku band with its higher frequency is much more susceptible to these defraction then X band. Same is the case with MmW. Due to its high frequency, its is susceptible to atmospheric attentuation. In war you could control almost everything, but not the environment in which the war would be fought.

Moreover the battery in an AAM does have to power up a whole lot of system including its flight control computer. So every juice of it matters. Its not as simple as replacing the batts with high power one.

Now I am not against the development of Ku abnd RADAR for ASTRA. Infact it is something which we all should be proud of. We have shown ingenuity in developing something like this. But I hope the developers had kept in mind the drawbacks of Ku band in target acquisition before going head on.
We can tackle error with more computing hardware and utilize deep learning algorithms to predict the flight path, but again only deep learning methods can do that, and that would require miniaturization of compute hardware that could process such information. Thus you can't fit a super computer to an AAM. But if we could somehow, you won't require a man to fly even a jet to do that job!
 
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scatterStorm

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After reading content about KU band and X band, I got a quick qn. I am a layman in tech terms, please answer my questions patiently.

1. Which radio frequency band is more susceptible to jamming!?

2. If two missiles i.e one with KU band and another with X band are fired at the same target(with ECM pod), what are the chances that both can be jammed.

3. Can these two radio frequency could be jammed with single ECM!?

4. I think Russians use KU band, Nato uses X band... any idea on what China uses!?

5. Can both of these missile could be guided by same radar at the same time!?

Thanks in advance for the answes
1. Both are susceptible to jamming, in general longer wavelengths difficult to Jam than shorter ones with higher frequency, but longer wavelengths are more susceptible to atmospheric absorption(Rain-fade effect) But it would require more power for the former.

2. They both can be jammed, we must remind ourselves that no technology is impregnable, if the fighter jet has plasma based ECM suite on board, I suspect Su50 has it, sure you can. Here's a recent research paper published in 2016

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7604099/?reload=true

Note: Interestingly, this are published by the Chinese Researchers!

3. Maybe, theoretically, let me brief it, you can apply Ka and Ku band ecm array on a rectangular radar pod, much like THALES SPECTRA, with one side capable of interception Ka and the other Ku( I am not saying SPECTRA does it), now the sheer complexity would be great, especially when to detect and engage either ku or ka, further since these array be so close, there are higher chances that you damage the other! Unless you shield it better.

4. As per the recent news, they claim to intercept a Carrier Battle group and the THAAD ABMS, which suggest they are rapidly investing time and money in "Land and sea based, X band radar technologies", especially the "sea based X band". On a missile seeker though, they must be using Ka band on ABM(DF21D) and Ku on Mid range-ASBM(DF26). AAM uses Ku because it somewhat allows radars to be miniaturized although not great as Ka. Ka further improves resolution and accuracy, throughput is also high if long range interception matters, especially in DF26 "THADD killer" missile.

Note: X band radar in China compliment the interception by providing full data sync thanks to Ka band high throughput.

5. Yes, X band radar can compliment Ku Band and Ka band, but for latter it's much beneficial. Seekers only activate one they are in interception range, almost all the entire journey they are passive scanning until they reach homing phase.
 
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Chinmoy

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We can tackle error with more computing hardware and utilize deep learning algorithms to predict the flight path, but again only deep learning methods can do that, and that would require miniaturization of compute hardware that could process such information. Thus you can't fit a super computer to an AAM. But if we could somehow, you won't require a man to fly even a jet to do that job!
I was not talking about how to tackle errors. All I was talking about the benefit and challenges of individual wave frequencies.
 

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Desi Meteor: DRDO’s SFDR missile update
Published May 27, 2017
SOURCE: IDRW NEWS NETWORK



Tender issued 3 days back which idrw.org has gone through by DRDO invited bids for supply Transportable Containers for SFDR ( Solid Fuel Ducted Ramjet Propulsion Technology) missile being developed by DRDL.

SFDR is Air-Air-Missile developed using baseline ASTRA BVRAAM which will use booster-ram jet sustainer propulsion system. The development and demonstration of SFDR propulsion system is a joint venture of DRDO and Russia.

SFDR has been under development since 2013 and in 2015 DRDO had invited Bids to manufacture SFDR Ground Launchers. Latest Tenders have specified requirements for transportation containers for SFDR missiles and Ground Launch Booster (GLB) which have to be transported separately.

SFDR missile will weight 250kgs approximately and the Ground Launch Booster (GLB) will weight approximately 450kgs.

NOTE : Article cannot be reproduced without written permission of idrw.org in any form
 

NeXoft007

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Desi Meteor: DRDO’s SFDR missile update
Published May 27, 2017
SOURCE: IDRW NEWS NETWORK



Tender issued 3 days back which idrw.org has gone through by DRDO invited bids for supply Transportable Containers for SFDR ( Solid Fuel Ducted Ramjet Propulsion Technology) missile being developed by DRDL.

SFDR is Air-Air-Missile developed using baseline ASTRA BVRAAM which will use booster-ram jet sustainer propulsion system. The development and demonstration of SFDR propulsion system is a joint venture of DRDO and Russia.

SFDR has been under development since 2013 and in 2015 DRDO had invited Bids to manufacture SFDR Ground Launchers. Latest Tenders have specified requirements for transportation containers for SFDR missiles and Ground Launch Booster (GLB) which have to be transported separately.

SFDR missile will weight 250kgs approximately and the Ground Launch Booster (GLB) will weight approximately 450kgs.

NOTE : Article cannot be reproduced without written permission of idrw.org in any form
This is kinda confusing. Is this XR-SAM? Coz it has a heavy 450kg Ground Launch Booster and a transportable container too. XR-SAM could be revealed sooner than expected.
 

HarshBardhan

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These are some of the 3D drawings by my friend on DRDO SFDR- the desi meteor in the making

The SFDR use an integral solid propellant rocket to boost the missile to take-over velocity for air-breathing propulsion to perform. In the airbreathing phase of powered flight, fuel - rich effluent from a choked-flow generator mixes and combusts with inlet air in the expended integral booster chamber. This kind of propulsion provides superiority over conventional propulsion in terms of range, sustained speed, manoeuverability.





 

Prashant12

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Missile test ‘boom’ sends Digha scurrying for cover

Digha/Kolkata: The seaside towns of Digha and Tajpur broke into panic, with thousands of tourists and local residents coming out of their hotels and homes, after a military exercise to fire air-to-air missiles near the coastline broke the sound barrier and triggered sonic booms that shattered window panes and damaged building fac-ades on Saturday morning.

Clueless firemen and cops combed the two towns for a couple of hours, suspecting a terror attack, before it became clear that the trigger was a military exercise involving the indigenous Astra air-to-air missile from Russian-origin Sukhoi-30 MKI fighter aircraft.

It was not clear whether the sonic booms were created by the Sukhois — capable of travelling at Mach 2 (twice the speed of sound at high altitudes) — or the missiles that can achieve speeds of Mach 4.5, but the two loud booms in quick succession were enough to bring thousands of panic-stricken people on to the streets.


"There were two sounds within a couple of minutes around 11.10am. The second one was so loud that it could be heard at Tajpur as well. The whole coastline was shaken and people felt the vibrations inside hotel rooms," East Midnapore SP Alok Rajoria said.

It was only later in the evening that sources in the Indian Air Force confirmed that Astra missiles were being test-fired at the air-to-air firing range over the Bay of Bengal at the time when the booms were heard. Fighter aircraft operating out of Air Force Station Kalaikunda — about 100km from Digha — usually fly sub-sonic till they are 40-odd kilometres into the sea. However, during such trials, when missiles are fired at drones from various angles and speeds, it is possible for an aircraft to go supersonic closer to shore. The explosions may also have been caused by missiles that went supersonic after being fired.

The DRDO-developed Astra missile is likely to be inducted into the IAF later this year.

It was only recently that an indigenous seeker was developed for Astra. The Beyond Visual Range (BVR) range missile can hit targets between 20 and 80 km away, depending on the propulsion system used. The missiles will be fitted to all varieties of fighter aircraft available with the IAF after undergoing trials from Su-30 MKIs.


The impact, however, was terrifying for those on the ground who did not know what was happening (which included the state administration). "There are 80 students in my school. The explosions were so loud that the children started crying. We were rattled and didn't know what to do so we took all the children out of the classrooms. Later, officials from the Digha coastal police station told us that there was nothing to worry and the children went back to their lessons," Gangadharpur Primary School assistant teacher Malati Mishra said.

Rajarhat resident Surajit Mandal, in Digha with his family, rushed out thinking there was an explosion in the hotel where they were staying or the one next door. "I had just entered the hotel and then heard the noise. I ignored the first one but the second one was so loud that I was shaken. I took my family out of the hotel," he said.

Salt Lake resident Ramashis Singh was enjoying the sea with his two friends when they heard the noise. "We came out of the sea wondering whether a terror attack had taken place. There was another explosion within two minutes. We could not see anything. There was no smoke or debris but the sound was scary," Singh said.


The incident occurred a day after intelligence inputs of possible sea-borne terror strikes along the Bengal and Odisha coasts went public. The district administration reacted fast and despatched teams to find the source of the "explosions". Personnel from the Digha coastal police station scoured the waters in speed boats and launches in search of explosive material and officials went around streets and beaches with loudhailers, urging people to remain calm and not venture out to sea for the time being.


"Our suspicion turned to the interim test range at Chandipur in Odisha — about 100 km away by road — where missiles and rockets are tested after we found no evidence of explosions on land or in the sea. We suspected some missiles or rockets could have misfired and landed in the sea close to Digha, causing the explosions," a senior police officer said.


The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) confirmed no tests were scheduled from Chandipur or Wheeler Island on Saturday morning. Usually, a notice is issued to the air traffic control in Kolkata by the DRDO prior to such exercises, for diversion of flights from the east coast where the navigational routes to south India lie.


"The notice to airmen (NOTAM) was for 3 p.m. when the airspace was sealed for missile tests. A DRDO official was at the Kolkata airport to coordinate the closure of the airspace. Flights to Chennai, Bengaluru, Hyderabad and Bhubaneswar were diverted via west, requiring an additional flight tine of 8-15 minutes," an ATC source in Kolkata said.



http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-scurrying-for-cover/articleshow/60239567.cms
 

Armand2REP

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I don't think the sonic boom of a small missile is going to break windows. The pilot did not adhere to operational procedures and I am sure he is being reprimanded as we speak.
 

airtel

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I don't think the sonic boom of a small missile is going to break windows. The pilot did not adhere to operational procedures and I am sure he is being reprimanded as we speak.
it was not Astra or any other small Missile ............It was a Very Big explosion , in the sea & 100s Kilometers away from the Population ...........a BVR missile cannot create that Big explosion .
 

indiatester

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it was not Astra or any other small Missile ............It was a Very Big explosion , in the sea & 100s Kilometers away from the Population ...........a BVR missile cannot create that Big explosion .
@saurav Jha was speculating if it was the 1000 kg glide bomb was being tested. Still doubt if live ammunition would be used during tests.
In all probability something went wrong. If it was the glide bomb or a pilot mistake is to be known.
 

spikey360

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Missile test `boom' sends Digha scurrying for cover
The seaside towns of Digha and Tajpur broke into panic, with thousands of tourists and local residents coming out of their hotels and homes, after a military exercise to fire air-to-air missiles near the coastline broke the sound barrier and triggered sonic booms that shattered window panes and damaged building facades on Saturday morning.

Clueless firemen and cops combed the two towns for a couple of hours, suspecting a terror attack, before it became clear that the trigger was a military exercise involving the indigenous Astra air-to-air missile from Russian-origin Sukhoi-30 MKI fighter aircraft.

It was not clear whether the sonic booms were created by the Sukhois -capable of travelling at Mach 2 (twice the speed of sound at high altitudes) -or the missiles that can achieve speeds of Mach 4.5, but the two loud booms in quick succession were enough to bring thousands of panic-stricken people on to the streets.

“There were two sounds within a couple of minutes around 11.10am. The second one was so loud that it could be heard at Tajpur as well. The whole coastline was shaken and people felt the vibrations inside hotel rooms,“ East Midnapore SP Alok Rajoria said.

It was only later in the evening that sources in the Indian Air Force confirmed that Astra missiles were being test-fired at the air-to-air firing range over the Bay of Bengal at the time when the booms were heard. Fighter aircraft operating out of Air Force Station Kalaikunda -about 100km from Digha -usually fly sub-sonic till they are 40-odd kilometres into the sea. However, during such trials, when missiles are fired at drones from various angles and speeds, it is possible for an aircraft to go supersonic closer to shore. The explosions may also have been caused by missiles that went supersonic after being fired.

The DRDO-developed Astra missile is likely to be inducted into the IAF later this year. The impact of the Astra trial was terri fying for those on the ground who did not know what was happening (which included the state administration).“There are 80 students in my school. The explosions were so loud that the children started crying. We were rattled and didn't know what to do so we took all the children out of the classrooms. Later, officials from the Digha coastal police station told us that there was nothing to worry and the children went back to their lessons,“ Gangadharpur Primary School assistant teacher Malati Mishra said.

Rajarhat resident Surajit Mandal, in Digha with his family , rushed out thinking there was an explosion in the hotel where they were staying or the one next door. “I had just entered the hotel and then heard the noise. I ignored the first one but the second one was so loud that I was shaken. I took my family out of the hotel,“ he said.

Salt Lake resident Ramashis Singh was enjoying the sea with his two friends when they heard the noise. “We came out of the sea wondering whether a terror attack had taken place. There was another explosion within two minutes. We could not see anything. There was no smoke or debris but the sound was scary ,“ Singh said.

The incident occurred a day after intelligence inputs of possible sea-borne terror strikes along the Bengal and Odisha coasts went public. The district administration reacted fast and despatched teams to find the source of the “explosions“.

“Our suspicion turned to interim test range at Chandipur in Odisha -about 100 km away by road -where missiles and rockets are tested after we found no evidence of explosions on land or in the sea. We suspected some missiles or rockets could have misfired and landed in the sea close to Digha,“ an officer said.

The Defence Research and Development Organisation confirmed no tests were scheduled from Chandipur or Wheeler Island on Saturday morning. “The notice to airmen (NOTAM) was for 3pm when the airspace was sealed for missile tests. A DRDO official was at the Kolkata airport.Flights to Chennai, Bengaluru, Hyderabad and Bhubaneswar were diverted, requiring an additional flight tine of 8-15 minutes,“ an ATC source in Kolkata said.
 

square

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Missile test ‘boom’ sends Digha scurrying for cover

Digha/Kolkata: The seaside towns of Digha and Tajpur broke into panic, with thousands of tourists and local residents coming out of their hotels and homes, after a military exercise to fire air-to-air missiles near the coastline broke the sound barrier and triggered sonic booms that shattered window panes and damaged building fac-ades on Saturday morning.

Clueless firemen and cops combed the two towns for a couple of hours, suspecting a terror attack, before it became clear that the trigger was a military exercise involving the indigenous Astra air-to-air missile from Russian-origin Sukhoi-30 MKI fighter aircraft.

It was not clear whether the sonic booms were created by the Sukhois — capable of travelling at Mach 2 (twice the speed of sound at high altitudes) — or the missiles that can achieve speeds of Mach 4.5, but the two loud booms in quick succession were enough to bring thousands of panic-stricken people on to the streets.


"There were two sounds within a couple of minutes around 11.10am. The second one was so loud that it could be heard at Tajpur as well. The whole coastline was shaken and people felt the vibrations inside hotel rooms," East Midnapore SP Alok Rajoria said.

It was only later in the evening that sources in the Indian Air Force confirmed that Astra missiles were being test-fired at the air-to-air firing range over the Bay of Bengal at the time when the booms were heard. Fighter aircraft operating out of Air Force Station Kalaikunda — about 100km from Digha — usually fly sub-sonic till they are 40-odd kilometres into the sea. However, during such trials, when missiles are fired at drones from various angles and speeds, it is possible for an aircraft to go supersonic closer to shore. The explosions may also have been caused by missiles that went supersonic after being fired.

The DRDO-developed Astra missile is likely to be inducted into the IAF later this year.

It was only recently that an indigenous seeker was developed for Astra. The Beyond Visual Range (BVR) range missile can hit targets between 20 and 80 km away, depending on the propulsion system used. The missiles will be fitted to all varieties of fighter aircraft available with the IAF after undergoing trials from Su-30 MKIs.


The impact, however, was terrifying for those on the ground who did not know what was happening (which included the state administration). "There are 80 students in my school. The explosions were so loud that the children started crying. We were rattled and didn't know what to do so we took all the children out of the classrooms. Later, officials from the Digha coastal police station told us that there was nothing to worry and the children went back to their lessons," Gangadharpur Primary School assistant teacher Malati Mishra said.

Rajarhat resident Surajit Mandal, in Digha with his family, rushed out thinking there was an explosion in the hotel where they were staying or the one next door. "I had just entered the hotel and then heard the noise. I ignored the first one but the second one was so loud that I was shaken. I took my family out of the hotel," he said.

Salt Lake resident Ramashis Singh was enjoying the sea with his two friends when they heard the noise. "We came out of the sea wondering whether a terror attack had taken place. There was another explosion within two minutes. We could not see anything. There was no smoke or debris but the sound was scary," Singh said.


The incident occurred a day after intelligence inputs of possible sea-borne terror strikes along the Bengal and Odisha coasts went public. The district administration reacted fast and despatched teams to find the source of the "explosions". Personnel from the Digha coastal police station scoured the waters in speed boats and launches in search of explosive material and officials went around streets and beaches with loudhailers, urging people to remain calm and not venture out to sea for the time being.


"Our suspicion turned to the interim test range at Chandipur in Odisha — about 100 km away by road — where missiles and rockets are tested after we found no evidence of explosions on land or in the sea. We suspected some missiles or rockets could have misfired and landed in the sea close to Digha, causing the explosions," a senior police officer said.


The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) confirmed no tests were scheduled from Chandipur or Wheeler Island on Saturday morning. Usually, a notice is issued to the air traffic control in Kolkata by the DRDO prior to such exercises, for diversion of flights from the east coast where the navigational routes to south India lie.


"The notice to airmen (NOTAM) was for 3 p.m. when the airspace was sealed for missile tests. A DRDO official was at the Kolkata airport to coordinate the closure of the airspace. Flights to Chennai, Bengaluru, Hyderabad and Bhubaneswar were diverted via west, requiring an additional flight tine of 8-15 minutes," an ATC source in Kolkata said.



http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-scurrying-for-cover/articleshow/60239567.cms
test to release astra at supersonic speed....
two mkis might have flying at that speed.. , one to release the missile and other to record the release.....
 

kunal1123

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idrw.org
Astra BVRAAM enters Small Scale Prodctuion Quiety : Report
2 minutes
SOURCE: IDRW NEWS NETWORK



In an earlier report (Click here), idrw.org had confirmed that Indian Air Force has cleared limited series production (LSP) of ingeniously developed Astra Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile (BVRAAM).

Recently Raksha Mantri Arun Jaitley inaugurated Astra manufacturing facility at BDL Bhanur Unit near Sangareddy quietly thus achieving a Major Milestone moment for the Indigenously developed Missile system which had commenced testing nearly 15 years ago in 2003 from Ground launchers without control and guidance.

The initial order is for 50 Units of Astra BVRAAM which will be equipped largely on India’s frontline Sukhoi-30 MKI Fighter aircraft but it will slowly make it way into other fighter aircraft like LCA-Tejas, Mirage-2000 and Mig-29 in near future which will see Batch orders .

DRDO has also briefed about the Indigenous missile system to the Indian Navy and if cleared by Indian Navy will also make it is way into Carrier Borne Mig-29K fighter aircraft in near future.

Astra BVRAAM with 110 km range in the head-on chase and 20 km in a tail chase will become India’s go to Beyond Visual range Missile replacing Russian supplied expensive R-77 in Sukhoi-30 MKI, Mig-29 and LCA-Tejas while Isreali Derby, BVR Air-to-Air Missile will remain Second BVRAAM for LCA-Tejas , recently ordered Dassault Rafale fighter aircraft will come with Next Generation Meteor BVRAAM .

NOTE : Article cannot be reproduced without written permission of idrw.org in any form
 

Vijyes

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idrw.org
Astra BVRAAM enters Small Scale Prodctuion Quiety : Report
2 minutes
SOURCE: IDRW NEWS NETWORK



In an earlier report (Click here), idrw.org had confirmed that Indian Air Force has cleared limited series production (LSP) of ingeniously developed Astra Beyond Visual Range Air-to-Air Missile (BVRAAM).

Recently Raksha Mantri Arun Jaitley inaugurated Astra manufacturing facility at BDL Bhanur Unit near Sangareddy quietly thus achieving a Major Milestone moment for the Indigenously developed Missile system which had commenced testing nearly 15 years ago in 2003 from Ground launchers without control and guidance.

The initial order is for 50 Units of Astra BVRAAM which will be equipped largely on India’s frontline Sukhoi-30 MKI Fighter aircraft but it will slowly make it way into other fighter aircraft like LCA-Tejas, Mirage-2000 and Mig-29 in near future which will see Batch orders .

DRDO has also briefed about the Indigenous missile system to the Indian Navy and if cleared by Indian Navy will also make it is way into Carrier Borne Mig-29K fighter aircraft in near future.

Astra BVRAAM with 110 km range in the head-on chase and 20 km in a tail chase will become India’s go to Beyond Visual range Missile replacing Russian supplied expensive R-77 in Sukhoi-30 MKI, Mig-29 and LCA-Tejas while Isreali Derby, BVR Air-to-Air Missile will remain Second BVRAAM for LCA-Tejas , recently ordered Dassault Rafale fighter aircraft will come with Next Generation Meteor BVRAAM .

NOTE : Article cannot be reproduced without written permission of idrw.org in any form
Is 20km chasing mode range sufficient? Isn't that too less? It just means Astra can travel around 50km on its own
 

airtel

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Is 20km chasing mode range sufficient? Isn't that too less? It just means Astra can travel around 50km on its own

It is Good , comparable to other rocket Engine powered BVR missiles .............Just dont compare with Ramjet engine powered missiles Like Meteor .
 

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