Assam: Four million Bangladeshi illegals Face Deportation

Discussion in 'Internal Security' started by square, Jul 30, 2018.

  1. Chinmoy

    Chinmoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    You are taking the whole thing in a wrong way. In India its just the path you show the followers. Remember the case of Anti- Bihari or North Indians in Maharastra carried out by Shiv Sena? Was it against North Indian Muslims or North Indian Hindus too? Was it in between Hindus or Muslims or between Marathas and Non Marathas?

    India got divided and lets not talk about some hypothetical situation here right now. When East Pakistan was formed neither you were there nor was I and so none of us could imagine what people felt like when they were first being forced politically to leave their belongings and second under radicalization. But in all these you are overlooking one aspect of East Bengalis. All got tortured by Pak army and Jamatis. They had not spared Mujibur Rehman for being a Muslim. Now we all know that Pak Army was Punjabis in mojority and Jamatis were Biharis who had transitioned from India to Bangladesh.

    So you see, when you politically play the cultural card, it would hold much more strength then religious card. Even Momota is playing Bengali vs Assamese card instead of Hindu vs Muslim card. Another example is Subodh Biswas. He too played the cultural card and brought the situation to boiling point.

    As far as Sammujal Bhattacharjee is concerned, I don't see any difference in between him and Tarun and Akhil Gogoi. AASU is the most corrupted entity of Assam right now along with AGP.

    And remember one thing............. In India, Jo dikhta hain, Woh bikta hain. It is just a matter of presentation.
     
  2. mayfair

    mayfair Elite Member Elite Member

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    Not quite. Napakis had special love reserved for Hindus. Check this out.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Chinmoy

    Chinmoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    I agree................. But could you refute what I said about targeting the Bengalis in general by Pak Army and Jamatis?
     
  4. mayfair

    mayfair Elite Member Elite Member

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    Actually the plans were to target Bengali intellectuals in general and Hindus in particular. It has been well-documented in different reports, articles, research manuscripts published on 1971 that the West Shitistanis leadership had decideed that Hindus as teachers, as doctors and engineers and as businessmen in East Pakistan were the driving force behind the East Pakistan agitations, and this was an opportune moment to get rid of the problem once and for all.

    Operation searchlight started with specific targeting of the educated Hindu intelligentsia, leading to lakhs fleeing to India. Of course it later spread to anyone who opposed the Napakis. Also do remember that the initial contempt of the West Pakistanis towards East Pakistanis was because they believed that Bengali Muslims were far too Hinduised and that Bengali language was too close to Sanskrit and Indic languages for comfort. The believed that this is why it would be easy to subdue impoverished East Pakistani masses, just as "their ancestors" had "ruled over Hindus."

    The first attempts to "wean away" the Bengali muslims of the "polluting Hindu influence" started soon after independence. Bengali curriculum was systematically changed to include more and more Arabic/Persian vocabulary.

    To give a few examples the word Ramdhanu was replaced with Rangdhanu. Words like paani, aasmaani, were added to replace the existing Benglai words. Bengali speakers can attest that Bangladeshi dialect is quite different from Bangla spoken in India, especially being heavy on Urdu/Arabic/Persian words. All this began during Shitistani rule.

    Incidentally, Mamata Bannerjee is going down the same route in introducing changes to Bangla curriculum in Bangaal.
     
  5. Chinmoy

    Chinmoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Exactly............ Target for Pakistan was the Bengali population irrespective of the point for them being Hindu or Muslim, whatever may be the reason. The same is going on till now in Pakistan with the Bengali settlement. So they have attacked them culturally along with religiously. The cultural attack on Bengalis was more massive then the religious one.
     
  6. Sourav Kumar

    Sourav Kumar Regular Member

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    That is not @mayfair had said "exactly".

    The "cultural attack" that you mention is actually "religious attack" as I told you for muslims, culture is inextricable from Islam. In Islamic Bangladesh, the Krishnachura tree/flower is renamed "Islam-chura". Hope you get the point.

    To understand all this you have to appreciate the "bigger picture" and different "layers":

    1) At the bigger picture level, in undivided india, all linguistic groups and cultures were there but religion card trumped all of them because the pull-of Islamic religion-culture was stronger and the muslims in undivided india were already 30% of total population. So their the islam religion card worked.

    2) Once pakistan was created, in east pakistan, it became a cultural issue between Pakisatani Muslim and Bengali Muslim. The Hindu Bengalis could not do anything about it. The hindu bengalis were persecuted by both pakistani muslims and bengali muslims. (Note: Mujibur rahman before being a secular leader was a communal leader of Indian Muslim League :D.)

    3) Once secular india helped east pakistan become bangaldesh, bangladesh quickly became Islamic Bangladesh and here religion card again played better than any semblance of cultural similarity that a Bengali Hindu and Bengali Muslim might have. Why? Because the pull of Islamic culture is much stronger than pull of any alleged shared culture between Bengali Muslims and Bengali Hindus.

    And finally, no jamati thing is not comprised of just Indian Bihari Muslims who migrated to East Pakistan. The jamatis are mostly Bengali speaking muslims.
     
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  7. Chinmoy

    Chinmoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Lets have a look at all the three points you mentioned.

    1) I totally agree with you. Religious card is just a wedge which brings the first division.

    2) This is where the main play comes in. To kill your identity, your cultural identity needs to me killed. For example Poila Baisakh is celebrated across Indian and Bangladeshi Bengalis irrespective of their religion just like Bihu in Assam. These festivals are all about cultural identity rather then religious identity. But when you start turning a specific population by saying that these festivals are only celebrated by Hindus and Muslims shouldn't celebrate it, you are attacking the culture rather then religion. Religion is only a tool in doing so. Same is the case with language. The word Jamaat is a Urdu word and has no relevance with Bengali. But it has been cultivated among Bengalis and now we have Jamaat-e-Islami Bangladesh.

    What if tomorrow these people would say that their culture is true Bengali culture and what other people are practicing is not Bengali? There would again be segmentation.

    3) Now as I have said, to divide a larger population, you need a wedge. Religion just provide you with the wedge. But when the population gets divided, culture comes into play. Look around yourself. People are more divided culturally rather then religion. For a smaller group, cultural identity is more important then religious.

    For any invader, they could force upto a limited numbers of population by force to accept their religion. But then they attack the very culture to make the generations after that follow them. Look at Christianity. What is their percentage in India before colonization? And what had changed after colonization? For Islam lets agree that all who have got converted were done by force. But how many have been blown to pieces for not following Christianity? And now its the third most followed religion in India with South and NE having more Christians then other religions.

    Now I have no problem with Govt giving citizenship to Bengali Hindus. My only concern was the way they are trying to do this. It has given the opposition just a powerful tool to derail the whole process.

    BTW Mujibur Rehman was a Jamaat member, but the same Jamaat got against him when he pushed for Bengali Language to be accepted by Pakistani government. So you see the cause again is cultural rather then religion. Again you might remember the recent Bengali vs Nepali conflict in Darjeeling. It got erupted by the mere fact of enforcing Bengali in school, not on any religious ground. So you simply can't throw the cultural card out of the window.
     
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  8. Sourav Kumar

    Sourav Kumar Regular Member

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    "But when you start turning a specific population by saying that these festivals are only celebrated by Hindus and Muslims shouldn't celebrate it, you are attacking the culture rather then religion."- who is attacking here really? Ultimately this attack would come from Islam based culture of muslims of assam because it is built-in in islamic culture.

    "Religion is only a tool in doing so."- If you think that all religions are equivalent tools, you are naive about religions. It seems you are not aware of the fundamental differences between abrahamic religions and Dharma based religions that came from India.

    "The word Jamaat is a Urdu word and has no relevance with Bengali. But it has been cultivated among Bengalis and now we have Jamaat-e-Islami Bangladesh." - When you write sentences like this, it will be better to be more explicit. Urdu/Arabic words cannot be cultivated among Hindu Bengalis. Urdu/Arabic words are already part of Bengali Muslim vocabulary because Koran is the central piece of their lives. So, as part of their Islamic culture, Bengali muslims would use urdu/arabic words. On the other hand, i agree that even Bengali Hindus can be given a dose of Urdu/arabic words by stealth mode techniques like secular education, secular movies, songs etc.

    There are religions that divide. There are religions (or Dharma) that unite. And as we are taught in schools, Hinduism is as much a culture as it is a way of life. Hindu Assamese culture and Hindu Bengali culture can co-exist under the bigger umbrella of Hinduism. But you have no such luck with Muslims. Because their Koran is very explicit and clear cut about this. You have 34% of Muslims in Assam as per 2011 census. Please wait for two more decades. In your lifetime, it will be done. It is not that it is not already done. Rapes of Hindu women happen on a daily basis in Assam by Muslims but i guess Assamese Hindu women are not yet majority victims of that.

    So here you are agreeing that Islam/ Christianity are different from Hinduism?

    In a country where linking aadhar to mobile sees so many flips-flops and drama + mismanagement, what more could we expect?

    I am quoting from wikipedia:
    "
    Mujib became politically active when he joined the All India Muslim Students Federation in 1940, when he was a student of Islamia College.[7]

    He joined the Bengal Muslim League in 1943. During this period, Mujib worked actively for the League's cause of a separate Muslim state of Pakistan, and in 1946 he went on to become general secretary of the Islamia College Students Union. M. Bhaskaran Nair describes that Mujib "emerged as the most powerful man in the party" because of his proximity to Huseyn Shaheed Suhrawardy.[8]

    After obtaining his BA degree in 1947, Mujib was one of the Muslim politicians working under Suhrawardy during the communal violence that broke out in Calcutta, in 1946, just before the partition of India.[9]
    "
    (I do not have any source that says Mujib was jamat member.)

    Mujibar Rahman was always a Muslim first and Bengali second. That is true for majority of muslims- they are always Muslims first. That is their culture. And this is the point i was trying to make. But everyone is free to choose his poison. If the assamese people and assamese leaders have chosen their poison of secularism-based-culture, i have no problem with that.
     
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  9. ch@Nd@n

    [email protected]@n Regular Member

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    No. I dont like to see these refugees in india, neither muslim nor hindu. send them all back. instead of Citizenship we can help them(hindus) financially and politically, so that they can stand up on their own feet. And thats way can prevent Bangladesh becoming islamic repablic.
     
  10. ch@Nd@n

    [email protected]@n Regular Member

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    lol.............:laugh::facepalm:
     
  11. ch@Nd@n

    [email protected]@n Regular Member

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    Agreed.........................
     
  12. Sourav Kumar

    Sourav Kumar Regular Member

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    Unfortunately it is not about your likes or dislikes, it is (ideally) about principles and practically about politics. You are screwed either way :D
     
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  13. ch@Nd@n

    [email protected]@n Regular Member

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    yes unfortunately it is. And its not me but its "we". we are all screwed. and we need to correct this
     
  14. Sourav Kumar

    Sourav Kumar Regular Member

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    No, I do not stand with you. Thanks.
     
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  15. ch@Nd@n

    [email protected]@n Regular Member

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    Yes, I know that you will not stand with us. because you are looking them as a bengali and i am as hindu
     
  16. Sourav Kumar

    Sourav Kumar Regular Member

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    I don't want to even engage in a conversation with you. Because firstly you have not read last few pages and secondly you assume to much and allege too much.
     
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  17. ch@Nd@n

    [email protected]@n Regular Member

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    ha ha ha....its true than.........
     
  18. mayfair

    mayfair Elite Member Elite Member

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    There is no equivalence. One set is a huge threat and the other is not.

    And the second half of your statement is the pipest of all pipedreams
     
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  19. ch@Nd@n

    [email protected]@n Regular Member

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    I am not threatening anyone. I am just expressing my thoughts. But I want it to happen because i dont want to see it(assam) as 2nd kashmir. Yes you can say it as "the pipest of all pipedreams" and somehow its true.because now we dont have Lachit Borphukan who never hesitated to cut of his own uncles head for not doing his job, to unite people for the war that is surely coming. and i can see only destruction
     
  20. Chinmoy

    Chinmoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Mujib was targeted by Pakistan for being a Bengali, not a Muslim. Not only Mujib, but the whole of Bangladesh saw the wrath of Pakistan Army which was predominantly Punjabi for being culturally different from them rather then religiously. Its not just the Army action which created Bangladesh, but the whole apathy shown by Pakistani Punjabi elite towards the Bengali population as whole. Even the Bengali students who had gone over to Pakistan for study had faced discrimanation for being Bengali. This is not what I am saying, but the likes of Hasan Nisaar. So what was it? Cultural attack or Religious?

    Now my point was the uproar against giving citizenship to Bengali Hindus. I already said that the real issue was not of giving them citizenship, but settling them in Assam. The real fear is from cultural point of view rather then religious.

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    Now look at the headline and how it is being projected. Its not in between Hindus and Muslims, but in between Bengalis and Assamese. Religion plays part in a large population. If you would have talked regarding India, it would have been relevant. But when you are talking about a specific region, the regional points takes forefront.
     

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