Army's ammunition won't last 20 days of war

Ashutosh Lokhande

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Keeping aside the ammunition's, what about missiles like BRAHMOS and other tactical missiles and their availability in case of a war with pakistan?
Am no expert in this but i think such deadly missiles and airforce wont be used vis a vis pak untill unless they use it first. India had always gave a measured and equal reply to pakis. If pak use 9mm rounds india will use the same and not a bigger round.(just an example).
Its pakistan who chooses time;place;intensity. We just give them jawabi firing.

Hope some day india takes pre emptive measure like Israel does on its adversaries.
 

Hari Sud

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A lot of ammunition is manufactured at 30 odd Ordnance Factories. I have no idea what component of total ammunition need is imported and what is manufactured locally.

Then again what is critical and what is regular type of ammunition.

Was the ammunition supply and TOT was negotiated when the guns were bought. If the TOT was not negotiated then why were these type of guns were bought.

Our armed forces have a stupid habit of going for the very best hardware as published in the blue glossy brochures but not realizing that the very best guns are useless without continuous supply of ammunition. Now we ate facing that problem. The Russians/Swedes/British/French/US make their buck supplying you ammunition fir their supplied guns. That process become unending. Shortage develop as one or the other gun gets stuck in the bureaucracy or high prices. We are facing that problem.

Hence stop concentrating buying new guns just concentrate on keeping them supplied with ammo.
 

Peter

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Well I admit that I know very little of military operations and ammunition supply,so I maybe wrong. However I feel that India should build ammunition factories and other such industries on its home soil. This would ensure that India has enough ammunition during wars and during peace India can sell the excess ammunition. Also the factories would provide employment to people. I do not understand what is stopping us from implementing such measures.
 

Blood+

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A lot of ammunition is manufactured at 30 odd Ordnance Factories. I have no idea what component of total ammunition need is imported and what is manufactured locally.

Then again what is critical and what is regular type of ammunition.

Was the ammunition supply and TOT was negotiated when the guns were bought. If the TOT was not negotiated then why were these type of guns were bought.

Our armed forces have a stupid habit of going for the very best hardware as published in the blue glossy brochures but not realizing that the very best guns are useless without continuous supply of ammunition. Now we ate facing that problem. The Russians/Swedes/British/French/US make their buck supplying you ammunition fir their supplied guns. That process become unending. Shortage develop as one or the other gun gets stuck in the bureaucracy or high prices. We are facing that problem.

Hence stop concentrating buying new guns just concentrate on keeping them supplied with ammo.
This is a nice post.Can you share your views @Ray sir??
 
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ezsasa

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Even though it is an alarmist article , author views may be based on the state of affairs in the past decades. the article does indicate that deals have been inked so as to improve the situation. In my opinion agenda of this article is to highlight the OFB's bad productivity. It can also be that their production lines are overloaded or worst case scenario they have become complacent.Improvement of existing practices takes time and for public sector companies it takes double the time. Hopefully this government will give them sufficient warning and time to improve, if they don't improve government will have another case for private companies to come in. Ammunition manufacturing is like a duck that lays golden egg, Government may spend on buying the tank only once but it will keep on spending atleast 20 years for it's ammunition.
 

p2prada

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What a sorry state of affairs our good old Saint Anthony has led us into, maybe under the guidance of the Queen Bee as she did with Manmohan to hush up on the 'Fishtail' issue, as reported in the Sunday Guardian.

It is time to do away with the Ordnance factories and give it to the private sector or have a PPP.

Ordnance factories are a drain on the exchequer, babudom ridden with no accountability and infamous for slippages or poor quality products.

If much of the ammunition has to be imported, then India should invite those companies to set up shop in India so that this mess does not occur. the FDI in defence is a correct step in this direction.
What is the difference between intense and normal fighting?
 

p2prada

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Gentlemen,

This article is from Rajat Pandit. So, think about it's credibility, just sayin...
What makes you say that?

EDIT:
Rajat Pandit guy is (in)famous for writing some fictitious stuffs. Some of his articles on Tejas LCA are the proof of that. I don't have any evidence to back my claim however, time and again his articles were proven incorrect, that too on DFI, IIRC.
He's never made atrocious claims about LCA. Most of it is consistent with facts.
 
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rock127

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This issue was raised before and how credible is that we may not know since it's coming from a "fiction" writer BUT good enough to press a panic button just to put process on fast track.

In any case no surprise it was allowed when ComCon kept playing with Indian security and money channeled to ComCon to their Swiss and Italian accounts. This LOOTING is going on since last 60 odd years.

In any case it's time to get the WWR to a good level specially when situation in Pakistan is volatile specially in the last few days and might start a adventure.
 

p2prada

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Yet, whatever little I have seen or heard, does not give me confidence, though I would not dismiss that it might be an exaggeration.
Your apprehensions are correct. A decade ago the army had to destroy 250000 APFSDS shells for the T-72 due to faulty design and manufacturing. They were designed by DRDO and made by OFB. They haven't yet been replaced.

Out of the two suppliers we have, one has been blacklisted and the other received a contract for 66000 shells only a year ago. Nobody else makes 125 mm shells. For some reason Ukranian suppliers haven't been considered.

A new DRDO designed shell is under testing, so we have to see how it goes.

According to the army, the WWR will be replenished only by 2019.
 

PaliwalWarrior

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i have read that there is a three tier systemof stocking

1 Unit level
2 Brigade / corps level
3 central level

these WWR that we are talking about falls in the third cetral level stockings

now how is the replenishment system works ? what is the ammo flow in the system ?

say a arty field gun unit position uses up 1000 ammos rounds in 1 month how are they replenished ?

are they ordered at present unit/corps levels?

are the WWR dipped only in case of war ?

are the daily use ammos put on auto reorder ? and the unit / corps levels stocks maintained by regular ordering ?
 

Ray

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This is a nice post.Can you share your views @Ray sir??
The negotiation is done by the Price Negotiating Committee that has no military representatives.

It is political and financial and the details are worked out by this committee.

There was the TOT for Bofors and now, at this late juncture they are producing it and there was a glitch!

So, who is to blame?
 
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Ray

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What is the difference between intense and normal fighting?
This is based on a statistical model on what is a lull period, a period of relative military activities and a period of relentless military activity without a break.
 

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