Army scuttles Arjun trials to push through T-90 purchase

sathya

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Top army generals are undermining India's Arjun tank to push through a Rs 10,000 crore order for T-90MS tanks from Russia. Senior defence ministry (MoD) sources tell Business Standard that Arjun trials, proposed for the plains of Punjab, are being scuttled to prevent any high-profile Arjun success from jeopardizing the import of more T-90s from Russia.

A proposal from the tank directorate for Arjun trials in Punjab has been placed on the backburner after instructions from the Military Operations (MO) Directorate. The powerful MO Directorate, more than any other branch of the army, deals directly with the army chief.

At stake here is the Rs 10,000 crore purchase of 354 new T-90MS tanks for six tank regiments for the China border. Business Standard had first reported the raising of these regiments (Sept 17, 2012, "In a first, Indian tank brigades to defend China border"). In the proposal that the government is considering for two tank brigades and a mountain strike corps, the army has put in the cost of 354 T-90MS tanks.

These new tanks will supplement the 1657 Russian T-90S, and 2414 T-72M tanks already deployed on the Pakistan border. So far, there are just 128 Arjun tanks in service, with an order for another 118 in the pipeline.

The army has denied that the MO Directorate is blocking any trials.

Even as the Arjun tank — developed in India by the Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO) — outperforms the T-90 in comparative trials held by the army, support for Russian tanks inexplicably grows. With the Arjun's performance established, the army is now arguing that the 60-tonne Arjun is too heavy for the soft soil of Punjab and J&K; it must therefore be confined to the deserts of Rajasthan. That would mean that only 4-6 of the army's 65 tank regiments can operate the Arjun tank.

The DRDO rebuts this logic, as do the tank units that actually operate the Arjun. "The Arjun's heavier weight is distributed over a larger area because of its larger tracks. Its "nominal ground pressure" is lower than the Russian tanks. So the Arjun can actually move more easily in Punjab," says S Sundaresh, the DRDO's Chief Controller of R&D for armoured vehicles.

This is validated by history, says Lieutenant General (Retired) RM Vohra, who won a Mahavir Chakra in the 1971 war while commanding 4 HORSE, a tank regiment equipped with Centurion tanks. He says the 42-tonne Pakistani Patton M-48 tanks got mired in the soft soil of Asal Uttar, in Punjab, while the 51-tonne Centurion moved around that battlefield easily.

The T-90MS, a new, upgraded version of the T-90S that India bought in 2001, is regarded as well suited for the extreme cold of Ladakh, Sikkim and Arunachal Pradesh, where the two new armoured brigades will operate. The Arjun, in contrast, is designed to withstand the heat of the Indian plains, where the T-90S has repeatedly malfunctioned in high temperatures. The T-90S now being built under license at the Heavy Vehicles Factory, Avadi, near Chennai, have proved less reliable than the Russia-built T-90S that were delivered initially.

"The army is justified in wanting the T-90MS for the China border. But it is wrong in scuttling the induction of the Arjun in Punjab and J&K. The Arjun must be given a fair chance. How can a Russian tank be given preference over an Indian one?" says a senior armoured corps general who is still in service.

The six tank regiments being bought for the China border will be divided between two armoured brigades, one located in Ladakh, and the other one in the north-east. Both sectors have valleys and plateaus in which China could attack with tanks. The new tank formation will safeguard these approaches and also provide a retaliatory capability in case of Chinese attack.

http://idrw.org/?p=16016
 
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sathya

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both tanks are of different category ..

i hope this ruckus give media coverage to MK2 Arjun tests and make it successful rather than delaying t 90m deal.

BTW can Arjun be deployed in hilly regions ?
 

Snuggy321

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both tanks are of different category ..

i hope this ruckus give media coverage to MK2 Arjun tests and make it successful rather than delaying t 90m deal.

BTW can Arjun be deployed in hilly regions ?

I dont think so, currently we only have T 72 in these regions. AFAIK Arjun would be to heavy for the infrastructure there, esp. the countless bridges.

PS: Surya rocks ;)
 

sathya

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what next Arjun MK-2 Vs T90MS.

Last time it was Arjun one up.

Why Army cant have MRCA type open tender for tank ??

i guess its follow up deal , with other t 90s upgraded to t 90m standard later on.
 

sathya

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I dont think so, currently we only have T 72 in these regions. AFAIK Arjun would be to heavy for the infrastructure there, esp. the countless bridges.

PS: Surya rocks ;)
i hope the new infrastructure that is being built can support heavy transportation
 

sasi

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Army scuttles Arjun trials to push through Russian T-90 purchase

Already posted.
 
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sasi

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If Arjun is heavy for leh and north east,then free some t90 regiments from gug-rajasthan sector. Replace it with Arjun. Deploy freed regi to leh and northeast.
 

sayareakd

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Arjun even though it is our child received treatmeant meant to Karan, while Karan has received Arjun's treatmeant. We know who won last time, this time it appears that light tank engagement area is excuse given.
Hope when war takes placr we dont get screwed big time by enemy and our foreign suppliers.
 

sob

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IA needs to come clean on this whole Arjun v/s T 90 issue. A point be point evaluation should be shared at least with the powers to be in MOD/DRDO and the select committee on defence in the Parliament.

Such decisions lead credence to underhand deals and further lead to plenty of mud slinging.
 

Sunder singh

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their must be an investigation why arjun is alway sided down against t 90 even it has prove it better to t90
 

Decklander

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An Italian waitress who is also a Russian agent will sign on anything which the russians want for the sake of bribes. In a 10k crore deal, the total bribe amount may be upward of 3k crores. We had known that this is what will happen as the MOD has literally forced IA to ask for these tanks. IA had wished to induct more Arjuns on Pak border and transfer T-90s from Pak border to China border. But this plan was scuttled at behest of the russian agent Italian waitrss and IA forced to buy these tanks.
 

ersakthivel

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An mmrca type open evaluation and which tank suits which area must be openly published after stringent evaluation of both the tanks.
If the bridges in the north east cannot support arjun then we can shift T-90s meant for the western sector to eastern sector rather than giving additional T-90 orders.

Arjun crossed the river RAVI near lassian which was previously marked as non tankable in the Indian army map which was equipped with much lighter T-72s.
http://worldofdefense.blogspot.in/2011/05/arjun-weight-ratio-compared-to-other.html
from
:: TEMPUR OFFICIAL WEBSITE - English Section - Arjun Mk1 MBT Proves Its Superiority
As the Arjun MBT Mk1 has a bigger track-print, its nominal ground pressure is only 0.84kg/square cm. Furthermore, with a power/weight ratio of 23.93hp/tonne, it has commendable cross-country mobility, which was demonstrated by its crossing of the River Ravi at Lassian without any combat engineering support, and its demonstrated mobility over numerous patches of marshy terrain, which are marked 'non-tankable' in going-maps of the Gurdaspur-Pathankot sector.

As for deployments from its peacetime locations, during the last 15 years various prototypes of the Arjun Mk1 MBT were moved for trials to various sectors, by both, rail and road, by existing means of transportation, albeit with ad hoc expedients, but without facing any serious difficulties.

The existing BWTA railway wagons have a payload capacity of 60+ tons, with the only issue being the width of the MBT, which is more than that of the BWTA wagon and so, the tracks protrude on both sides. A six-inch wooden sleeper, when placed on the floor of the wagons, before loading the Arjun Mk1 MBT, ensures that the tank tracks move over adjacent platforms without fouling with them.

With this arrangement Arjun Mk1s were moved as Class 'A' ODC on Chennai-Delhi, Delhi-Suratgarh, Delhi-Jaiselmer, Chennai-Balasore and Balasore-Delhi railway lines on several occasions. In addition, on a number of occasions, the Arjun Mk1 was ferried over long distances on BEML P-80 trailers towed by Tatra 8 x 8 T815 VTI tractors.
it was rated to have much better on the move shooting ability and much better accuracy resulting in much better first hit kill by the army.So it is surprising that orders are being given at 100 at a time, while t-90s are procured in 1000s.

It's electronics were heat hardened to with stand the summer heat, while T-90s were reported to have problems in this area.
If we don't deploy a tank which was perfected over 30 years of r&D then it will be a great strategic blunder as all western armies operate higher protection heavy weight tanks.



Since it distributes it's higher weight with wider tracks it can ecert lesser ground presssure on even marshy landscape than the 1000s of inferior t-72s.

in future even the chinese army may join the attack in the western sector it it is a two front war with the completion of karakoram highway with pakistani army.

Strategic community should take this into account and speedily deploy mk-2 arjuns by giving it a larger order run reducing the costs further.
 
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ersakthivel

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Dissimilar Combat: Arjun MBT Vs T-90S specs : Frontier India - News, Analysis, Opinion
More info on arjun's performance in this site.
Arjun MBT's Hydro Pneumatic Suspension system provides a stable weapon platform which enhances the fire on move capability and excellent riding comfort during cross country move.


Automatic transmission provides neutral turn capability which adds to the maneuverability during shoot and scoot. Arjun MBT features Auxiliary Power Units (APU) which T-90S does not have. APU's provide continuous operation in silent watch mode. It also saves main engine life.

Rubberized double pin tracks provide increased life, reduced track noise and better maintainability. Arjun MBT's mission reliability has been proved with 500 kms being covered in 48 hours. Arjun MBT successfully crossed the RAVI River at Lassian without support systems due to lower ground pressure. Trench crossing capability of Arjun MBT is on par with T-90S as Arjun MBT has seven bogie stations compared to six bogie stations of T-90S.

Protection of MBT Arjun against FSAPDS and HESH ammunitions has been demonstrated. In January 2000 at Proof & Experimental Establishment (PXE), Balasore, Arjun tank armor defeated all available HESH and FSAPDS rounds including Israeli FSAPDS rounds. ERA is effective only against HEAT ammunition and not FSAPDS which is the primary threat to a battle tank. Arjun Tank has ERA protection as add on feature, while T-90S has it as a regular feature.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?89961-Indian-Armed-Forces/page116

What is clear is that the MoD is happy with the Arjun. According to the Parliamentary Standing Committee for Defence's last annual report for 2007-08, the MoD testified before the Committee that the Arjun tank was:

"¢ "A product unique in its class", and "an improved system over the T-72."
"¢ "Rs 6-8 crores cheaper than its contemporary system in the West".
"¢ "Far superior (in firing accuracy) to the other two tanks (T-72 and T-90)".
"¢ "Driven for over 60,000 kms and fired more than 8,000 rounds. There was no problem."
Some more info on how arjun matured over the years in the above blog written by ajai shukla.
 
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ersakthivel

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Indigenous defence research - looking through DRDO prism : Frontier India - News, Analysis, Opinion
Another long article on the lack of co operation between defence forces and DRDO

http://ipcs.org/pdf_file/issue/1796701917IPCS-Special-Report-23.pdf

However, significant among Arjun's
firepower is its ability to fire the
LAHAT (Laser-Homing Anti-Tank)
missile. The LAHAT, designed and
developed by the Israeli Aircraft
Industries' (IAI) MBT division, has
already been successfully tested on the
Arjun. It has a range of upto 8 kms,
much beyond the conventional
capability of 2.5 km and beyond visual
r
the above article has some accurate info regarding arjun.
 
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