Arjun vs T90 MBT

[kaku]

Both Arjun and T90 unfortunately csnnot match Leo 2A6, which can take T90 out from a distance of 6km....even further and faster than T90s tank fired missiles... Curvature of earth is working against those.

No tank in world can match USS Enterprise of Star Trek, so whats your point actually?

 

[tharun]

Can any one tell me 1000mm of RHA is about 100 cm in length..
So every battle tank has 100 cm armour to it's sides and above..

 

[armyofhind]

Can any one tell me 1000mm of RHA is about 100 cm in length..
So every battle tank has 100 cm armour to it's sides and above..

Not necessarily.
RHA or rolled homogenous armour is a kind of benchmark.
RHA is basically just a sheet of metal or alloy x cms thick.
Now you can have 100cm of RHA on a tank which will make it really heavy, or you can have composite armor of lesser thickness and weight which will give the same level of protection as 100cm of RHA.

 

[Blood+]

Not necessarily.
RHA or rolled homogenous armour is a kind of benchmark.
RHA is basically just a sheet of metal or alloy x cms thick.
Now you can have 100cm of RHA on a tank which will make it really heavy,

Correct.

or you can have composite armor of lesser thickness and weight which will give the same level of protection as 100cm of RHA.

Not quite.

FUCKING THIRTY CHARACTERS!!

 

[armyofhind]

Correct.

Not quite.

FUCKING THIRTY CHARACTERS!!

??

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[Blood+]

??

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The second part of your argument was wrong.

 

[armyofhind]

The second part of your argument was wrong.

Instead of writing "not quite" you can write what is correct if you think what I wrote was wrong.
That way, it'll add value to the discussion as well.

 

[Blood+]

Instead of writing "not quite" you can write what is correct if you think what I wrote was wrong.
That way, it'll add value to the discussion as well.

Nah, not in the mood right now, may be later.Meanwhile, why don't you try and figure it out yourself, it will be more fun that way, you will feel like you have achieved something, trust me.

 

[kstriya]

Indian Army to soon have Russian T-90 tanks with ‘Make in India’ element as threat from Pakistan looms large

Published November 1, 2016


SOURCE: INDIA TODAY



The Indian Army plans to buy 464 advanced T-90 battle tanks from Russia for deployment on its western borders with Pakistan.The Rs 13,448-crore contract will include a Make-in-India element for integration at the Heavy Vehicles Factory in Avadi near Chennai.

The 10 new regiments of T-90MS tanks, equipped with thermal imaging night sights to allow the tank commander to hit at enemy locations even during night battles, will strengthen army’s fire power along the land border stretch with Pakistan-from Jammu in north till the western flank in Gujarat.

LATEST TANKS TO TACKLE HEIGHTENED THREAT

“We are planning to procure the latest variants which would be deployed to tackle the heightened threat on the western front,” highly-placed sources in the army told Mail Today.

Modalities of the proposal have been cleared by the army at the top level and would be soon placed for approval before Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar-led Defence Acquisition Council, the sources said.

India has already inducted 18 regiments of T-90 tanks which are deployed in Rajasthan and Punjab against on the Pakistan front.

However, the Indian Army’s 4000-strong tank fleet has been battling with night blindness in the past and these new tanks would help in doing away with that, the sources said.

In addition it was found that key systems like the missile-firing mechanism and thermal sights had deteriorated due to prolonged exposure to heat and dust. This was pointed out in a recent comptroller and auditor general report. The Defence Ministry has decided to sort out the issues in addition to the radiators as the locally-produced equipment was creating problems in field operations, the sources said.

THE T-90 TANKS

The T-90 has emerged as the main battle tank of the Indian Army and is replacing the older variants of T-72 and T-55 tanks in the force.

India has about 850 T-90 tanks currently and plans to induct 1,657 by the year 2020.

The target of almost doubling the fleet in next three to four years seems a difficult task because the procurements were stuck due to issues related to escalating cost and local production.

The tanks are considered to be most advanced in the Indian inventory as they are equipped with sophisticated state-of-theart systems being produced in the country but they did not have air conditioners.

The Army initiated the process to buy ACs to be fitted in the tanks. To meet the challenges on the western front, the government also recently cleared acquisition of missiles and ammunition for these tanks under the fast-track acquisition process.

INDIA GOING BACK TO RUSSIA?

India’s defence ties with Russia have been more than 60 years old and New Delhi was heavily dependent on Moscow for military hardware as it provided over 70 per cent supplies to the forces.

In recent years, the America and European sources have moved in to replace Russian equipment but the ties were rekindled recently.

India has now been showing an inclination to go back towards Russian defence buys with a deal worth Rs 39,000 crore in the pipeline to purchase five S-400 Triumf air defence missile systems which can engage enemy aircraft at 400 km.

During the recent visit by Russian President Vladimir Putin, India also signed a yet-to-bepriced agreement for joint manufacturing of 200 Kamov light helicopters which would be used by the army at high-altitude areas of Siachen and Ladakh for maintaining forward bases.

The mainstay of Indian Air Force is also the Su-30MKI combat aircraft- 272 of which are being procured from Russia.


Posted in India

 

[kstriya]

Indian Army to soon have Russian T-90 tanks with ‘Make in India’ element as threat from Pakistan looms large

Published November 1, 2016


SOURCE: INDIA TODAY



The Indian Army plans to buy 464 advanced T-90 battle tanks from Russia for deployment on its western borders with Pakistan.The Rs 13,448-crore contract will include a Make-in-India element for integration at the Heavy Vehicles Factory in Avadi near Chennai.

The 10 new regiments of T-90MS tanks, equipped with thermal imaging night sights to allow the tank commander to hit at enemy locations even during night battles, will strengthen army’s fire power along the land border stretch with Pakistan-from Jammu in north till the western flank in Gujarat.

LATEST TANKS TO TACKLE HEIGHTENED THREAT

“We are planning to procure the latest variants which would be deployed to tackle the heightened threat on the western front,” highly-placed sources in the army told Mail Today.

Modalities of the proposal have been cleared by the army at the top level and would be soon placed for approval before Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar-led Defence Acquisition Council, the sources said.

India has already inducted 18 regiments of T-90 tanks which are deployed in Rajasthan and Punjab against on the Pakistan front.

However, the Indian Army’s 4000-strong tank fleet has been battling with night blindness in the past and these new tanks would help in doing away with that, the sources said.

In addition it was found that key systems like the missile-firing mechanism and thermal sights had deteriorated due to prolonged exposure to heat and dust. This was pointed out in a recent comptroller and auditor general report. The Defence Ministry has decided to sort out the issues in addition to the radiators as the locally-produced equipment was creating problems in field operations, the sources said.

THE T-90 TANKS

The T-90 has emerged as the main battle tank of the Indian Army and is replacing the older variants of T-72 and T-55 tanks in the force.

India has about 850 T-90 tanks currently and plans to induct 1,657 by the year 2020.

The target of almost doubling the fleet in next three to four years seems a difficult task because the procurements were stuck due to issues related to escalating cost and local production.

The tanks are considered to be most advanced in the Indian inventory as they are equipped with sophisticated state-of-theart systems being produced in the country but they did not have air conditioners.

The Army initiated the process to buy ACs to be fitted in the tanks. To meet the challenges on the western front, the government also recently cleared acquisition of missiles and ammunition for these tanks under the fast-track acquisition process.

INDIA GOING BACK TO RUSSIA?

India’s defence ties with Russia have been more than 60 years old and New Delhi was heavily dependent on Moscow for military hardware as it provided over 70 per cent supplies to the forces.

In recent years, the America and European sources have moved in to replace Russian equipment but the ties were rekindled recently.

India has now been showing an inclination to go back towards Russian defence buys with a deal worth Rs 39,000 crore in the pipeline to purchase five S-400 Triumf air defence missile systems which can engage enemy aircraft at 400 km.

During the recent visit by Russian President Vladimir Putin, India also signed a yet-to-bepriced agreement for joint manufacturing of 200 Kamov light helicopters which would be used by the army at high-altitude areas of Siachen and Ladakh for maintaining forward bases.

The mainstay of Indian Air Force is also the Su-30MKI combat aircraft- 272 of which are being procured from Russia.


Posted in India

WTF, when we have the Arjun MK2 ready and available. Why not order these local beasts in numbers? T90's will use technology developed in Arjun's, so why not promote the local machines so more tech can be developed for future platforms.

 

[armyofhind]

WTF, when we have the Arjun MK2 ready and available. Why not order these local beasts in numbers? T90's will use technology developed in Arjun's, so why not promote the local machines so more tech can be developed for future platforms.

This is an old news. This deal had been signed a while back only.
Maybe deliveries will start now so that's why it's come up in the news again.

 

[Adioz]

WTF, when we have the Arjun MK2 ready and available. Why not order these local beasts in numbers? T90's will use technology developed in Arjun's, so why not promote the local machines so more tech can be developed for future platforms.

Bro, actually its defense procurement SNAFU.
Blame the parakeet:-

Arjun mk-II: 118 examples cost INR 6,600 crore
T-90MS: 464 examples cost INR 13,448 crore.

Roughly two T-90MS cost equals one Arjun mk-II.

Maybe, the numbers argument finds favour with the top brass. Not with me.

Personally, I think a true cost-benefit analysis would indicate Arjun mk-II as the winner, even if we buy just half the numbers. Considering that the T-90 is a matured design and Arjun is a new design with much more scope for improvement and the fact that current Arjun model outperforms the T-90MS, selecting the Arjun over the T-90MS seems to be a no-brainer. T-90MS will be obsolete in time whereas Arjun mk-II will keep up with its contemporaries by timely upgrades. The Army has in all its wisdom decided against this.
Not to mention that these tanks have been ordered for the Pakistani border, where we already enjoy massive conventional superiority (so quality of tanks should have been given preference over quantity).

This decision makes zero sense. Or am I missing something?

 

[sayareakd]

T90S dont have APU, it requires AC, its gun is made by DRDO and so is its armor. Russians actually screwed us on complete TOT. Plus Arjun has beaten T90s in competative trials.

If IA gives bulk orders and break even is achived we can reduce cost to great extent.

 

[Bahamut]

T90S dont have APU, it requires AC, its gun is made by DRDO and so is its armor. Russians actually screwed us on complete TOT. Plus Arjun has beaten T90s in competative trials.

If IA gives bulk orders and break even is achived we can reduce cost to great extent.

Sir it is T 90 SM which is modernized, a new engine and has a option of AC and also newer automation system

Bro, actually its defense procurement SNAFU.
Blame the parakeet:-

Arjun mk-II: 118 examples cost INR 6,600 crore
T-90MS: 464 examples cost INR 13,448 crore.

Roughly two T-90MS cost equals one Arjun mk-II.

Maybe, the numbers argument finds favour with the top brass. Not with me.

Personally, I think a true cost-benefit analysis would indicate Arjun mk-II as the winner, even if we buy just half the numbers. Considering that the T-90 is a matured design and Arjun is a new design with much more scope for improvement and the fact that current Arjun model outperforms the T-90MS, selecting the Arjun over the T-90MS seems to be a no-brainer. T-90MS will be obsolete in time whereas Arjun mk-II will keep up with its contemporaries by timely upgrades. The Army has in all its wisdom decided against this.
Not to mention that these tanks have been ordered for the Pakistani border, where we already enjoy massive conventional superiority (so quality of tanks should have been given preference over quantity).

This decision makes zero sense. Or am I missing something?

May be it is for Mountain warfare where T 90MS plus there is the maintenance issue .Arjun MkII is superior to T 90A but I not sure about T 90SM
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t90ms_tagil.htm
http://www.armyrecognition.com/russ...ions_information_specifications_pictures.html
http://idrw.org/why-t-90ms-tagil-is-not-just-upgraded-tank-for-indian-army/

 

[Adioz]

May be it is for Mountain warefare where T 90MS plus there is the maintenance issue .Arjun MkII is superior to T 90A but I not sure about T 90SM

The article specifically states that these are for Rajasthan border. And look what has been deployed on the Depsang plains to counter PLA: T-72 Ajeya. So its not like we are procuring new models of relatively lighter tanks with simpler logistics for PLA. Even if we did, we have T-90 s that could be deployed in the area first. We are purchasing new tanks and also deploying all our latest assets against a weaker adversary: Pakistan (which is however much more volatile than China). If we already enjoy an advantage in numbers, maybe we should not exert more effort on increasing numbers but the quality of armour.

And even if T-90SM is superior to Arjun mk-II today, we can upgrade Arjun in the future to keep up with technology since it is a newer system. T-90SM is not going to see many more upgrades, and the ones it does see will give much less value for money than an upgrade for Arjun would. T-90 is already at its limit. It traces its lineage to T-72.

This move would be like the IAF selecting F-16 Block-70 and then giving it preference over Tejas.

 

[Bahamut]

The article specifically states that these are for Rajasthan border. And look what has been deployed on the Depsang plains to counter PLA: T-72 Ajeya. So its not like we are procuring new models of relatively lighter tanks with simpler logistics for PLA. Even if we did, we have T-90 s that could be deployed in the area first. We are purchasing new tanks and also deploying all our latest assets against a weaker adversary: Pakistan (which is however much more volatile than China). If we already enjoy an advantage in numbers, maybe we should not exert more effort on increasing numbers but the quality of armour.

And even if T-90SM is superior to Arjun mk-II today, we can upgrade Arjun in the future to keep up with technology since it is a newer system. T-90SM is not going to see many more upgrades, and the ones it does see will give much less value for money than an upgrade for Arjun would. T-90 is already at its limit. It traces its lineage to T-72.

This move would be like the IAF selecting F-16 Block-70 and then giving it preference over Tejas.

T 90 does have less upgrade potential compare to Arjun MK2 due to more focus on T 14 or new technology from T 90MS will be use in future for Arjun. Also the infrastructure for T 90MS already exist , for Arjun a new infrastructure.I personal want more Arjun MK2 but in my talk with Army personal the Arjun is better individual tank and if Army put more infrastructure then it will shine but its easier to maintain T 90 ,Army finds it more economical , May be in future we follow T 14 and make a common heavy platform to reduce maintenance cost.

 

[Adioz]

T 90 does have less upgrade potential compare to Arjun MK2 due to more focus on T 14 or new technology from T 90MS will be use in future for Arjun. Also the infrastructure for T 90MS already exist , for Arjun a new infrastructure.I personal want more Arjun MK2 but in my talk with Army personal the Arjun is better individual tank and if Army put more infrastructure then it will shine but its easier to maintain T 90 ,Army finds it more economical , May be in future we follow T 14 and make a common heavy platform to reduce maintenance cost.

It is a given that T-90 is more maintenance friendly than Arjun.

• It is shares commonality with T-72 and thousands of these systems are in service with the Indian Army.
• Also, T-90 is a technologically less sophisticated machine. It might get similar electronic kits but does not have stuff like hydropneumatic suspension and the related gun-stabilisation system like the Arjun. Therefore, maintenance and ruggedness are likely to favour T-90.

Maybe the Army is waiting for Arjun to mature (mk-III or IV) before they induct it in large enough numbers?
By that time it will be a replacement for the T-72. 2035-2040s maybe.

I agree with you on the fact that we need to make a common heavy platform like the Armata platform or the Merkava-Namer duo. But lets do that on our own and not get involved with the Armata.
BTW, I heard there is an SPG (130mm) based on Arjun chassis that the Army HAS ORDERED (about 1 regiment). Any progress on that front? Have they really placed a firm order for such a regiment?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Give a read to the thread before even thinking so..

 

[itsme]

Why can't DRDO design a tank based on T90? Like a more advanced version of T90 not copy MS though? Since we have good exp making T90 and it will fit in with the army's doctrine too.

 

[Flame Thrower]

Why can't DRDO design a tank based on T90? Like a more advanced version of T90 not copy MS though? Since we have good exp making T90 and it will fit in with the army's doctrine too.

I guess Army rejected that proposal...

@Kunal Biswas I believe that Tank-EX had been rejected by the army...And there ended our own version of T-72/T-90.

Or DRDO still working on Tank-EX project...!!??

Would like to know your views on Tank-EX & FMBT projects