Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[Soham]

Soham, changing the length (assuming same mass) doesn't change the KE per se but the impact it might create when it hits the armor of a tank will be different (not sure in which direction) just like pointed rounds create more impact than flat rounds despite having same kinetic energy.

Thats what I wanted to know... how does it affect the impact.
I asked, because length of rounds is very imp. in artillery rounds, so.... was wondering if they make a big difference in Tank munitions.

 

[zraver]

Thats what I wanted to know... how does it affect the impact.
I asked, because length of rounds is very imp. in artillery rounds, so.... was wondering if they make a big difference in Tank munitions.

Generally long rod penetrators perform better than shorter ones. If you compare the rounds of the same generation US/NATO v Soviet 1970-1986 before the Soviets abandoned the bore riding saboted deigned in favor of the spool style sabots you see a huge differance. The 105mm M744 had a penetration of 345mm vs the Soviet 3VBM9/3BM22/23 which did 380mm,

345/105= 3.29mm of penetration per mm of round diameter
280/125= 3.04mm of penetration per mm of round diameter

The newest Russian round the 3BM46 has a penetration <600mm and a length of at least 560mm. The US M829A3 has a penetration <800mm and a length of 835mm. So it follows that a longer and heavier penetrator will perform better.

A scary thought is if the US converts to the 120mm L/55 and the M829A3 can handle the higher velocities- the energy delivered from that round going around 1700m/s is huge. Currently figuring a 1.5kg sabot weight the 8.5kg round will deliver around 10.8mj. Boosting the velocity to 1700m/s boosts the energy to 13mj. Compare this to the estimated 2.4kg weight of the 3BM46 at 1700 which delivers about 6.6mj The 3BM46 is the best round India could have for the T-90 as it is state of the art Russian. The Indian T-90's gun is outperformed by the current US Abrams gun combo round by at least 50%

 

[nitesh]

DrDO Newsletter for April'09

Engine Test House at CVRDE, Avadi Dr A Sivathanu Pillai, Distinguished Scientist & CC R&D (NS&ACE), DRDO HQrs. New Delhi inaugurated the newly created State of the Art Engine Test Facility at Combat Vehicle Research & Development Establishment (CVRDE), Avadi. In his inaugural address, he congratulated theCVRDE team for their vision and dedicated planning towards the creation of world class Engine Test Facility which has two test cells capable of testing the engines up to 1500 kW and 800 kW power, respectively.

Speaking on the occasion, CC R&D said that the development work for the Mark II Arjun has already commenced with serious deliberations towards incorporating the future technologies into the new version of MBT, which is expected to embrace the most advanced digital electronics and nano technology.

 

[nitesh]

another article adding to the controversy:

T-90 S is a Dud, it can’t fire far enough. | Frontier India Strategic and Defence - News, Analysis, Opinion - Aviation, Military, Commodity, Energy, Transportation, Conflict, Environment, Intelligence, Internal Security

 

[nitesh]

National : 16 Arjun Tanks to be handed over to Army on May 25 : 580630

 

[F-14]

Generally long rod penetrators perform better than shorter ones. If you compare the rounds of the same generation US/NATO v Soviet 1970-1986 before the Soviets abandoned the bore riding saboted deigned in favor of the spool style sabots you see a huge differance. The 105mm M744 had a penetration of 345mm vs the Soviet 3VBM9/3BM22/23 which did 380mm,

345/105= 3.29mm of penetration per mm of round diameter
280/125= 3.04mm of penetration per mm of round diameter

The newest Russian round the 3BM46 has a penetration <600mm and a length of at least 560mm. The US M829A3 has a penetration <800mm and a length of 835mm. So it follows that a longer and heavier penetrator will perform better.

A scary thought is if the US converts to the 120mm L/55 and the M829A3 can handle the higher velocities- the energy delivered from that round going around 1700m/s is huge. Currently figuring a 1.5kg sabot weight the 8.5kg round will deliver around 10.8mj. Boosting the velocity to 1700m/s boosts the energy to 13mj. Compare this to the estimated 2.4kg weight of the 3BM46 at 1700 which delivers about 6.6mj The 3BM46 is the best round India could have for the T-90 as it is state of the art Russian. The Indian T-90's gun is outperformed by the current US Abrams gun combo round by at least 50%

Agreed sir but what do you with all you tank knowlage think about the T-90S and its Place in the Indian sub continental amour picture

pls enlighten me

 

[zraver]

Agreed sir but what do you with all you tank knowlage think about the T-90S and its Place in the Indian sub continental amour picture

pls enlighten me

I think its obsolete, the T-90M is far superior. I think it is slightly less capable than the Arjun but if it can be refitted to the T-90M standard it will be a capable tank.

 

[nitesh]

good news:

The Hindu : National : Big decisions await Antony

Mr. Antony has been advocating indigenisation, and two projects — the Light Combat Aircraft (Tejas) and the Main Battle Tank (Arjun) — are dear to him.

 

[K Factor]

I think its obsolete, the T-90M is far superior. I think it is slightly less capable than the Arjun but if it can be refitted to the T-90M standard it will be a capable tank.

Z, then why in your opinion is the InA not favoring the Arjun even when it is better the T90s ?

 

[nitesh]

So now it is confirmed IA has a regiment of arjun this is going to becocme quite a show, regimental level trials:


Comparative trials between Arjun, Russian T-90 delayed

New Delhi (PTI): The comparative summer trials between the Arjun and Russian T-90 tanks will now be held during Monsoon after the Army insisted on holding comparison of regimental level performance of the two tanks.

"The earlier plan was to hold trials using a small number of tanks of both types during summers around May or June. But with the Army now insisting on fielding a regiment (40 tanks) of both the tanks against each other, it will take another three months before the trials begin," Defence Ministry sources told PTI here.

DRDO is expected to deliver around 16 tanks to the Army during a ceremony in Avadi in Tamil Nadu, where the tanks are built.

"After the induction of the tank, it will take the Army another six weeks to train its men to operate the Arjun.So, we can hope for the trials to begin only in August," they said.

 

[sayareakd]

IA is now having cold feet for the Arjun and T 90 tanks, reason DRDO knows Arjun and T 90 and so is IA, therefore DRDO was insisting on comparitive trials..................

 

[sayareakd]

i wont be surprice if this comparitive trial will never take place and will get delay every time.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Kanchan armor has already proven to be better than other armor.

 

[EnlightenedMonk]

Maybe the Russian lobby???

 

[sayareakd]

Arjun and T 90S will never compete if they will do that then Arjun tank will rule over T 90................

 

[K Factor]

IA is now having cold feet for the Arjun and T 90 tanks, reason DRDO knows Arjun and T 90 and so is IA, therefore DRDO was insisting on comparitive trials..................

Erm, sorry , didn't get you. Could you be a bit more clear?

 

[Koji]

Excuse me if I'm a bit naive, but wasn't the Arjun project canned in favor of the T-90?

 

[Singh]

Excuse me if I'm a bit naive, but wasn't the Arjun project canned in favor of the T-90?

Mr. Koji from the Bronx, have you gone over the thread ?

 

[zraver]

Z, then why in your opinion is the InA not favoring the Arjun even when it is better the T90s ?

That is internal Indian politics.

 

[nitesh]

That is internal Indian politics.

Sir, please look in to this news: The Hindu News Update Service

What exactly is going to get tested with such huge force?