Argentine officials confirm joint-production talks over China's FC-1

[farhan_9909]

Re: Argentine officials confirm joint-production talks over China's FC

@farhan,
Yes, there was couple of flights with WS-13 engines, so what??? It will be mature (if it will be) in 35 years to come, when it won't be needed at all.
30 years programme is not from Indian sources, it is Chinese official programme.

About Chinese official sources (on AESA, engines, missiles and so on) - WHERE ARE THEY??? NONE OF THEM WE CAN SEE!!!
Stop posting those bullshit from Wikipedia - this is not the source at all. As well as Chinese mockups on airshows, because if you'll put even less professional eye on them, you will see them crippy and lacks of complete beauty, like American or Russian ones.
BTW, we don't have any photos / videos about fighter-sized AESA tests or GaAs / GaN manufacturing facilities.

There is a strange but rather significant situation with Chinese claims for success - China fans yelling about them, but when you ask them to bring any official proof from official sources and any official data, they flee to the bushes getting their tails shitted.
@farhan, You still have not provided any proofs of Pakistani AESA or GaAs / GaN TRMs manufacturing capabilities. Where are they?

Chinese cannot do engines. This is approved. Read the following:
Unable to copy it, China tries building own jet engine | Reuters
Jet Engine Development in China: Indigenous high-performance turbofans are a final step toward fully independent fighter production | China SignPost™ 洞察中国

Where is your proofs, @farhan?

*No but less than 3-4 years.
*reuter is ot official source of chinese engien manufacturer.Ws-15 is bound to be ready within the next 2-3 years.
*Google about CATIC/AVIC offer of fc-1 with aesa radar in singapore airshow.or ask me than i will post
*i told you the nescom electronics complex has only been completed last year.and the hiring of staff had already been started.
will soon post about the indigenous Nust developed radar to be mass produced by Nescom electronics complex

 

[farhan_9909]

Re: Argentine officials confirm joint-production talks over China's FC

cost of su30mki 35 millions?? which year were you talking about buddy??

i think last year.it was around 35millions.

 

[drkrn]

Re: Argentine officials confirm joint-production talks over China's FC

i think last year.it was around 35millions.

last year a fully configured su 30mki went for 80 million dollars..dont spread wrong info or info which you have no proper idea

 

[gadeshi]

Re: Argentine officials confirm joint-production talks over China's FC

@farhan:

*No but less than 3-4 years.
*reuter is ot official source of chinese engien manufacturer.Ws-15 is bound to be ready within the next 2-3 years.

Any proofs? Hah?
I've posted official Chinese analytics article (in Chinese of course) - There were clearly stated that China suffers tremendous difficulties with engines.
And another one - Why to commit engine development programme planned on 30 years and put 30 billions of dollars to it if you can produce engines? Can yoy think, not just post?

Give me any proof of Chinese endigenous engine mass-production. I demand it within many posts. We all want to see proofs.

*Google about CATIC/AVIC offer of fc-1 with aesa radar in singapore airshow.or ask me than i will post

Yes, please post me it. But Chinese don't have any AESA for themselves, what AESA do they offer for foreigners??? I think they offer an OPTION which CAN (or cannot) BE developed on customers demand or with cooperation for some time in the future. But this time will not be short.

Anyway, please post me the info.

*i told you the nescom electronics complex has only been completed last year.and the hiring of staff had already been started.
will soon post about the indigenous Nust developed radar to be mass produced by Nescom electronics complex

Yes, Packs have built electronics production complex, sowhat?
We know nothing about its level or production equipment.
But we know that Pakistani scientists and engineers are completely unexperienced in doing such a projects, so building a plant is not equal to AESA production, you know?

Post more viable info about this complex, so we can tell you for sure, can it produce AESA radars or not.

 

[farhan_9909]

Re: Argentine officials confirm joint-production talks over China's FC

@farhan:


Any proofs? Hah?
I've posted official Chinese analytics article (in Chinese of course) - There were clearly stated that China suffers tremendous difficulties with engines.
And another one - Why to commit engine development programme planned on 30 years and put 30 billions of dollars to it if you can produce engines? Can yoy think, not just post?

Give me any proof of Chinese endigenous engine mass-production. I demand it within many posts. We all want to see proofs.

It doesnt matter whether the program planned for 3 decades or 20decades.PAF has repeatedly said that Chinese engine option is available but let it mature first.

Yes, please post me it. But Chinese don't have any AESA for themselves, what AESA do they offer for foreigners??? I think they offer an OPTION which CAN (or cannot) BE developed on customers demand or with cooperation for some time in the future. But this time will not be short.

there is one interview directly from janes aswell.will post that later

adjust it yourself

http://www . defence . pk/forums/chinese-defence/159495-cnac-will-provide-aesa-upgrade-customers-jf-17-a.html

Anyway, please post me the info.



Yes, Packs have built electronics production complex, sowhat?
We know nothing about its level or production equipment.
But we know that Pakistani scientists and engineers are completely unexperienced in doing such a projects, so building a plant is not equal to AESA production, you know?

Post more viable info about this complex, so we can tell you for sure, can it produce AESA radars or not.

i had already given you a link to a def,pk thread.created by me.with all the stuff related to the AESA radar development by NUST.
info about the Nescom electronic complex and all the related stuff

 

[gadeshi]

Re: Argentine officials confirm joint-production talks over China's FC

@farhan:

At present, the world of third-generation fighter active duty electronic upgrade. In this year's Singapore Airshow, Boeing, Raytheon and other companies have asked the third-generation fighter plane electronic equipment upgrade program. In this regard, the front of reports on the future of the Xiaolong aircraft electronic equipment upgrades ask the the CATIC staff. Xiaolong fighter is quite advanced electronic equipment, compared with the People's Liberation Army is currently equipped with the fighter, absolutely one of the most advanced, he said. Third World in the low-end customers, can be said to "fully functional only they can think of, did not they put forward, but can not meet." The face of the trend of the national Air Force Dress active phased array radar, the exhibition said that the Third World countries may shortly do not need to, but once put forward the demand to the existing body can dress, and does not require a big improvement. In addition, Ray Stone -6, the use of domestic positioning system precision-guided weapons can also be equipped with the Xiaolong aircraft. (Liu Xuan)

Source: http://www.-----------/forums/chine...-upgrade-customers-jf-17-a.html#ixzz2a4dcyjoi

So, I am right
CATIC officials just named the worlds trend to equip the fighters with AESA radars, whicn is f**cking obvious, and sounded Chinese tries to do so. But NO OFFER were made. More over this, CATIC speaker said that "3-rd world countries don't need AESA now but we will offer that option later".

This means, that no AESA radar is available now or in the nearest future neither for Chinese themselves, nor their international customers. And this "later" can be as long as for engines. Chinese have not even showed any mockup of their AESA on those exibition neither in Zhuhai.

BTW, AESA radar consumes huge amount of power which cannot be given by single RD-33 engine. Where do they suppose to get it?

@farhan, can you read in English?

It doesnt matter whether the program planned for 3 decades or 20decades.PAF has repeatedly said that Chinese engine option is available but let it mature first.

Of course it doesn't matter will you get independent engine now, in 2 or 30 years to come . Do you find it rediculous, don't you?

BTW, you sweared to me to bring me the proof of 3-4 years of WS-13 mass production readiness. Where are they?

SD-10a range is more than 90km.sd-10b.which will be the standard bvr of JFT is having 110km range.

Any proof??? Not from Wikipedia please.

How can a missile with old soviet SRM engine purchased in Ukraine have greater ranges than newest R-77-1 or AIM-120C?
This is true also for MNII AGAT developed seeker, which is purchased from Ukraine as well.

 

[p2prada]

Re: Argentine officials confirm joint-production talks over China's FC

last year a fully configured su 30mki went for 80 million dollars..dont spread wrong info or info which you have no proper idea

Incorrect. MKIs at HAL are coming out at $40 Million.

The latest deal with Russia for 42 MKIs was $1.6 Billion, which is less than $40 Million per aircraft.

 

[p2prada]

Re: Argentine officials confirm joint-production talks over China's FC

BTW, AESA radar consumes huge amount of power which cannot be given by single RD-33 engine. Where do they suppose to get it?

Do you know details about the RD-33's powerpack, old one and new one? Thanks.

 

[drkrn]

Re: Argentine officials confirm joint-production talks over China's FC

Incorrect. MKIs at HAL are coming out at $40 Million.

The latest deal with Russia for 42 MKIs was $1.6 Billion, which is less than $40 Million per aircraft.

add those two.40 million for production 42 for upgradation.read some where

 

[p2prada]

Re: Argentine officials confirm joint-production talks over China's FC

add those two.40 million for production 42 for upgradation.read some where

The upgrade contract is independent of the 42 aircraft contract.

Officially 80 of the first batch of MKIs are to be upgraded. Estimated contract value is supposed to be $2 Billion for the lot. But this is not confirmed.

Another report said 50 will be upgraded first at $2 Billion.

Best to wait for when the deal is inked. But the 42 aircraft deal is $1.6 Billion.

 

[Apollyon]

Re: Argentine officials confirm joint-production talks over China's FC

Incorrect. MKIs at HAL are coming out at $40 Million.

The latest deal with Russia for 42 MKIs was $1.6 Billion, which is less than $40 Million per aircraft.

You mean the fly-away cost is $40 million (minus weapons) ?
It's similar to F-15C/D's fly-away cost, a bit more.

 

[p2prada]

Re: Argentine officials confirm joint-production talks over China's FC

You mean the fly-away cost is $40 million (minus weapons) ?
It's similar to F-15C/D's fly-away cost, a bit more.

F-15s fly away cost is twice as much as MKIs, nearly three times if you see the costs they sell to Korea and Singapore.

MKIs maintenance costs are a bit more than a F-16s, maybe 30-35%. F-15s maintenance costs are at least three times more than a F-16.

Even the estimated Super MKI upgrade costs are at $25 Million to $40 Million per aircraft, and this is with next gen avionics.
Compare it to the Mirage-2000 upgrade which costs much more at nearly $50 Million per aircraft.
A similar Mig-29 upgrade is coming in at $15 Million per aircraft.

The USAF next gen upgrade to the F-15C is supposed to cost $97 Million per aircraft.

You are thinking about the F-15s costs from the late 90s when it was $30 Million vs MKIs $22 Million.

The estimated cost of a F-15 Silent Eagle is $100 Million. Estimated cost of a Su-35 is between $45 Million and $65 Million.

 

[TrueSpirit]

Re: Argentine officials confirm joint-production talks over China's FC

F-15s fly away cost is twice as much as MKIs, nearly three times if you see the costs they sell to Korea and Singapore.

MKIs maintenance costs are a bit more than a F-16s, maybe 30-35%. F-15s maintenance costs are at least three times more than a F-16.

Even the estimated Super MKI upgrade costs are at $25 Million to $40 Million per aircraft, and this is with next gen avionics.
Compare it to the Mirage-2000 upgrade which costs much more at nearly $50 Million per aircraft.
A similar Mig-29 upgrade is coming in at $15 Million per aircraft.

The USAF next gen upgrade to the F-15C is supposed to cost $97 Million per aircraft.

You are thinking about the F-15s costs from the late 90s when it was $30 Million vs MKIs $22 Million.

The estimated cost of a F-15 Silent Eagle is $100 Million. Estimated cost of a Su-35 is between $45 Million and $65 Million.

These costs & % figures have been deduced from info available in public domain ?

 

[p2prada]

Re: Argentine officials confirm joint-production talks over China's FC

These costs & % figures have been deduced from info available in public domain ?

Yeah, all from open sources.

Only the Super MKI upgrade is a speculation as of now. But it is not my estimation, it was reported in the media.

HAL promised to make MKIs at $22 Million apiece in early 2000s. Costs rose to $40 Million today.

IAF had released info saying an MKI costs less than $10000 to fly per hour. This is consistent with Malaysian Air force findings which was similar while Super Hornet Block 1 was three times more during the competition between MKM and SH B1.

 

[ersakthivel]

Re: Argentine officials confirm joint-production talks over China's FC

FC-1 or JF-17, different designations for the same aircraft. Being one of the major partners of joint project, Pakistan is entitled to share the revenue.

Orders from other coutries are gonna prove the feasibility of the continuing development of FC-1, and with more fund we are getting from the sale, the process of upgrading FC-1 is very likely to be fastened.

It's a good news for both China and Pakistan.

Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2

These orders are happening because china decided to roll out the fighter without aiming it to beat the F-22.

Now it is reaping the fruits of this practical approach by getting funding for further development of the platform.

Sadly exactly the reverse is happening on the LCA front here with ever increasing new demands saddled on the developers delaying the production of the fighter,

with unwilling HAL producing the LSps excruciatingly slowly only all round blame game is happening here.

If only IAF has given a bigger order for LCA mk-1 leading to higher investments in a separate production line,

LCA too will have such export inquiries, but by extending the laundry list of Requests for action forever IAF(even while having more than 400 flying fossils in their fleet!!!!!!!!) is nipping the nascent indian aerospace industry in the bud.

Even today with 95 percent composite skin and 120 km tracking range radar and one of the lowest clean config RCS along with Mirage like ITRs LCA mk-1 is a great handler according to it's test pilots.

It is high time GOI wakes up to what they are missing out and set up separate production line under the authority of ADA , with no delays from HAL's part.

Since every major fighter producing nations have more than one production company, it will do a world of good to indian aviation.

But instead of focussing on such practical aspects Saint Antony is losing sleep over a month or two's delay in LCSS IOC-2 deadline and unnamed defence ministry officials are crowing to their " famed " defence journos that AMCA is on hold till LCA clears IOC-2.

I