Are nukes over-rated?

[warrior monk]

How about putting nukes inside satellites and thenz drop them like asteroids. They may cause more destruction.
@warrior monk @Sakal Gharelu Ustad
Isn't that a good idea? :biggrin2::biggrin2:

Technically not possible but we are a coward country that will test exo atmospheric kill vehicle then will say that we have the technology to test ASAT weapon but will not test it saar that is the definition of cowardice. US will bark at us.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Technically not possible but we are a coward country that will test exo atmospheric kill vehicle then will say that we have the technology to test ASAT weapon but will not test it saar that is the definition of cowardice. US will bark at us.

This all as follows as my reply to your previous post. Here it is

I will tell you the truth about India.
Does India have the guts to test nuclear weapon ??

We currently can't afford sanctions. So, we can't openly do it. There have been many incidents of nuclear blasts claims in Indian Ocean causing Tsunami. Also, many of our islands are beyond approach Americans.
We must shut our mouth in this case because it has been happening in the time of Congress and BJP. :biggrin2:

Does India have the guts to test 10000 kms range ICBM ??

We are openly developing it and will test it in 2017.
What's need of guts. After entry of A5, it is becoming so usual.

Does India have the guts to test hypersonic missile ??

Same goes for this one too. We ate openly working on HSTDV.

Does India have the guts to test ASAT weapons even though we have exo atmospheric kill vehicle ( PDV) ??

We are developing all of these openly and testing many things (like K4 frequently).
You are asking about India's guts?
India tested nukes in 1974. Could P5 do anything?
No
India again tested them in 1998. Could P5 do anything?
No
India made nuclear missiles and still expanding its muscles. Is anybody daring to stop us?
No
We have a made a nuclear sub. Did west stop us?
No
We ratified Chemical Weapons treaty. Could anybody do anything?
No

Washington asked us to go slow

But does India follow their advice and gets slow?
No. :biggrin2:
totally P5 nations are cowards who just bark but have been failed to show muscles whenever here's case of India as a permanent member in security council who can protect them from that supa dupa powa ful ISIL.
That is why these P5 cowards need a brave country like India who has guts to go against whole world but nobody has guts to stop him.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

@LETHALFORCE may be interested in this.
http://m.timesofindia.com/city/mumb...ost-to-Chandrayaan-2/articleshow/48928966.cms
and
http://www.thenewsminute.com/technologies/593

 

[Bangalibaba]

Again,I'm a 2 paisa enthusiast among you shifus,but there are benefits of being in a democracy,that you can voice your thoughts and so I shall. But it may be a little out of topic and a little out of whack.
In November 2015,when Modi visited Malaysia,I went to watch him, and was sitting within 30odd ft from Mr. Doval.At his age he had a sharp eye,which was loitering around the auditorium and had a piercing vision.When they were leaving I could manage a quick chat with the SPGs guarding him and other honchos. 1st thing anyone would notice is the sheer respect these guys have for him.2) He's way to cunning & unpredictable for any sane person.
We all know Doval understands the Pak Nuke bluff and ready to call their bluff as well.It's a lose-lose option for Pak.Also Doval knows the 'pressure-points' of Pak more than any analysts/experts,so it's a given he would retaliate if Modi gives him the go ahead and doesn't fall pray to what I call 'The Vajpayee Syndrome'. As an immediate reaction in my small understanding if Doval is given the go ahead to call the shots,will resort to small time retaliation.But in my guess,the bigger (actual) retaliation would come a little later,may be as late as 1-2 years even.I'm not sure where or how he'll hit but he'll hit for sure if given freedom.
But in my opinion,POK is the safest option,even so in Gilgit-Baltistan.In Pakistan's own word it's a disputed territory,so using nukes will not be that easy.NLI (Northern Light Infantry), ones carried out Kargil are stretched in KPK and elsewhere is made up of mostly Shia's and not fully committed to GHQ IMHO.And lastly to strangulate Pak,we need to cut off their rejuvenation plan of CPEC and in no better place than Gilgit-Baltistan.That way you stop China from reaching Gwadar directly over the land mass,

 

[warrior monk]

This all as follows as my reply to your previous post. Here it is

We currently can't afford sanctions. So, we can't openly do it. There have been many incidents of nuclear blasts claims in Indian Ocean causing Tsunami. Also, many of our islands are beyond approach Americans.
We must shut our mouth in this case because it has been happening in the time of Congress and BJP. :biggrin2:

We are openly developing it and will test it in 2017.
What's need of guts. After entry of A5, it is becoming so usual.

Same goes for this one too. We ate openly working on HSTDV.

We are developing all of these openly and testing many things (like K4 frequently).
You are asking about India's guts?
India tested nukes in 1974. Could P5 do anything?
No
India again tested them in 1998. Could P5 do anything?
No
India made nuclear missiles and still expanding its muscles. Is anybody daring to stop us?
No
We have a made a nuclear sub. Did west stop us?
No
We ratified Chemical Weapons treaty. Could anybody do anything?
No

But does India follow their advice and gets slow.
No. :biggrin2: totally P5 nations are cowards who just bark but have been failed to show muscles whenever here's case of India.
That is why these P5 cowards need a brave country like India who has guts to go against whole world but nobody has guts to stop him.

Saar
A-6 will have range less than 7000 km but it will be created to be a tech demonstrator of K-5 SLBM . Not a true 10000 km range ICBM. It will have 2.2 m dia and under 13 m length to fit into our SSBN.
Chinese say that A-5 has 8000 km range but it was tested in a non optimized bleeding energy ballistic trajectory which is also known as depressed trajectory can you tell why ???.Who were we afraid off

Hypersonic missile please read this
http://bharatkarnad.com/2015/07/20/hypersonic-on-hold/

as far as nukes are concerned we got sanctioned after 1974 and also after 1998. There were rumors that we were also going to test in 1995 but US intervened. We are that unfortunate country that started the Asia's first nuclear program before even Japan and China yet China is much ahead of us why ??And we do not have any MT yield warhead and don't have the guts to test them but thank God we have DAHRT facility and making ICF facility all thanks to our scientists.

 

[warrior monk]

This all as follows as my reply to your previous post. Here it is

We currently can't afford sanctions. So, we can't openly do it. There have been many incidents of nuclear blasts claims in Indian Ocean causing Tsunami. Also, many of our islands are beyond approach Americans.
We must shut our mouth in this case because it has been happening in the time of Congress and BJP. :biggrin2:

We are openly developing it and will test it in 2017.
What's need of guts. After entry of A5, it is becoming so usual.

Same goes for this one too. We ate openly working on HSTDV.

We are developing all of these openly and testing many things (like K4 frequently).
You are asking about India's guts?
India tested nukes in 1974. Could P5 do anything?
No
India again tested them in 1998. Could P5 do anything?
No
India made nuclear missiles and still expanding its muscles. Is anybody daring to stop us?
No
We have a made a nuclear sub. Did west stop us?
No
We ratified Chemical Weapons treaty. Could anybody do anything?
No

But does India follow their advice and gets slow?
No. :biggrin2:
totally P5 nations are cowards who just bark but have been failed to show muscles whenever here's case of India as a permanent member in security council who can protect them from that supa dupa powa ful ISIL.
That is why these P5 cowards need a brave country like India who has guts to go against whole world but nobody has guts to stop him.

We gave up our Chemical weapons there is no bravery in that

 

[harsh]

[QUOTarrior monk, post: 1117657, member: 15552"]We gave up our Chemical weapons there is no bravery in that[/QUOTE]
Well chemical weapons are less effective then neuclear weapons and they fall in same category of WMD. So we gave up chemical weapons and enlarge our arsenal of nuclear.
I think its not bravery it is just clever thinking.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

We gave up our Chemical weapons there is no bravery in that

The industrial base is there to quickly produce again if needed



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[LordOfTheUnderworlds]

One point people seem to ignore is that Pakistani nukes are not India's problem alone.

Once war starts, that means India has demonstrated it is willing to accept any consequences including nuclear retaliation against India and so now threats of Pakistani nuclear weapons is no longer a deterrent against India.
However at the same time, there is now high risk that control of Pakistani nukes and missiles could go into hands of mad mullahs and some Jihadi generals. That means the Pakistani nukes can potentially enter European cities through refugee/jihadi network.
Also Israel is within strike range of Pakistani missiles.

In other words, as soon as India demonstrates its resolve for full scale war against Pakistan, Pakistani nukes suddenly become world's problem and the onus is on world powers to cooperate and ally with India for full denuclearization of Pakistan.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Saar
A-6 will have range less than 7000 km but it will be created to be a tech demonstrator of K-5 SLBM .
Not a true 10000 km range ICBM. It will have 2.2 m dia and under 13 m length to fit into our SSBN.

A5 have a potential range 8000km.
A6 will have at least 12000km. On what bases you are calling it is not real.
And it is not a technological demonstrater, it is a platform on which K5 can be developed.
Obviously, Submarine launched version will have a shorter range than land borne.

Chinese say that A-5 has 8000 km range but it was tested in a non optimized bleeding energy ballistic trajectory which is also known as depressed trajectory can you tell why ???.Who were we afraid off

Specifications of Agni 5:
Diameter: 2.2m
Height: 17.5m
Weight: 50 tonnes
Chinese DF-31A( 8000km)
Diameter: 2.25m
Height : 13m
Weight : 42 tonnes
This is one example, I can give you more. Not only China, whole world knows the actual range of A5.

Hypersonic missile please read this
http://bharatkarnad.com/2015/07/20/hypersonic-on-hold/

Well, it's a random blog not an official source calling everything rumour again and again.
Anyway.
It's obviously not easy to make a hypersonic cruise vehicle but it doesn't mean we can't build it. Other countries faced many problems too. Why we can't?

as far as nukes are concerned we got sanctioned after 1974 and also after 1998. There were rumors that we were also going to test in 1995 but US intervened.

Sanctions!!!!!!! :biggrin2::biggrin2:
Biggest symbol of cowardness of P5. They can't tackle India. So, they sanctioned us.

We are that unfortunate country that started the Asia's first nuclear program before even Japan and China yet China is much ahead of us why ??And we do not have any MT yield warhead

Well that's play of speed. Even after starting after us, Chinese and Japanese left us behind because they have edge in technologies much before us. When we started. we were a failed third world nation who knew nothing about this tech.
China had also better scientific infrastructure even after civil war.
Anyway, what's happening today?
India has become faster, is moving ahead and catching up with them.
What else do you want?

and don't have the guts to test them

You mean ghosts are testing those nukes in Indian Ocean?
Look guy, India can't do a test openly. But that doesn't mean it can't do that.
There have been many claims of Indian Nuclear Tests in Oceans but for sake of national security we should not talk much on it.
But that doesn't mean you have got license to call India coward.
What do you think? When no countries had guts to challenge P5, India showed guts, had nuclear tests, made missiles and delivery systems.
Will that country not have guts go against them.
Case is different that it can do some privately instead of thumping chests in public and getting sanctioned.
Well, a facility is known to being prepared for testing nukes secretly preventing from eyes of west.
http://thediplomat.com/2014/06/is-india-building-thermonuclear-weapons/

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/12/16/india_nuclear_city_top_secret_china_pakistan_barc/
Well after all, how long we could hide a city?
Anyway, at least we still can keep details away from public domain.

We gave up our Chemical weapons there is no bravery in that

Who told we gave up?
We lied in past, can't we lie again.
It's case of national interest.
Yahan sab chalta hai.

 

[Scarface]

This entire problem arises out of a holier than thou doctrine (no first use policy), Pakis are exploiting it through and through.

They know that we don't have a credible minimum second strike capabilities out of our 1 SSBN which hasn't been inducted and TELAR ICBMs which don't carry out deterrence patrols.

We need to modifiy our doctrine to allow pre-emptive nuclear strike in case we have Intel that Pakistan is readying to launch Nukes.

Then all the leverage they ever had on us will be gone and we can freely engage them.

 

[warrior monk]

A5 have a potential range 8000km.
A6 will have at least 12000km. On what bases you are calling it is not real.
And it is not a technological demonstrater, it is a platform on which K5 can be developed.
Obviously, Submarine launched version will have a shorter range than land borne.

Specifications of Agni 5:
Diameter: 2.2m
Height: 17.5m
Weight: 50 tonnes
Chinese DF-31A( 8000km)
Diameter: 2.25m
Height : 13m
Weight : 42 tonnes
This is one example, I can give you more. Not only China, whole world knows the actual range of A5.



Well, it's a random blog not an official source calling everything rumour again and again.
Anyway.
It's obviously not easy to make a hypersonic cruise vehicle but it doesn't mean we can't build it. Other countries faced many problems too. Why we can't?


Sanctions!!!!!!! :biggrin2::biggrin2:
Biggest symbol of cowardness of P5. They can't tackle India. So, they sanctioned us.

Well that's play of speed. Even after starting after us, Chinese and Japanese left us behind because they have edge in technologies much before us. When we started. we were a failed third world nation who knew nothing about this tech.
China had also better scientific infrastructure even after civil war.
Anyway, what's happening today?
India has become faster, is moving ahead and catching up with them.
What else do you want?

You mean ghosts are testing those nukes in Indian Ocean?
Look guy, India can't do a test openly. But that doesn't mean it can't do that.
There have been many claims of Indian Nuclear Tests in Oceans but for sake of national security we should not talk much on it.
But that doesn't mean you have got license to call India coward.
What do you think? When no countries had guts to challenge P5, India showed guts, had nuclear tests, made missiles and delivery systems.
Will that country not have guts go against them.
Case is different that it can do some privately instead of thumping chests in public and getting sanctioned.
Well, a facility is known to being prepared for testing nukes secretly preventing from eyes of west.
http://thediplomat.com/2014/06/is-india-building-thermonuclear-weapons/

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/12/16/india_nuclear_city_top_secret_china_pakistan_barc/
Well after all, how long we could hide a city?
Anyway, at least we still can keep details away from public domain.

Who told we gave up?
We lied in past, can't we lie again.
It's case of national interest.
Yahan sab chalta hai.

Saar
You don't get me I am not anti India nor am I saying India is technically incompetent if you see my other posts in this forum you would understand me my replies in this thread were against the flawed policies of my country not against India and its technical prowess .

If you compare DF-31A with Agni 5 which can better be converted into a SLBM a 17 m long 50t missile (Agni-5) or a 13 m long 42t missile having tested 8000 km range with PBCS ( post boost control vehicle for MIRV) ( DF-31A) ?? anyone with these data points can gauge the technical prowess of Chinese. I don't think India will ever test ICBMs more than 10000 kms because our leaders don't have guts. ( I pray to God to be wrong here )

You mean to say Chinese were a first world country in 1960s great and as far as civilian program is concerned we are ahead of the Chinese having PFBR , CHTR , AHWR , PHWR , PWR etc but how come they are strategically ( nuclear) ahead of us ???

You have proof we are doing Hydro nuclear tests is it critical or sub critical testing ??? by the way we have a official moratorium on testing . The city you were talking off doesn't test or even make thermonuclear weapons it only churns out HEU from our super critical centrifuges with total of 60000 SWU (China has 3000000 SWU capability) for our future SSBN and SSN cores as far as i know we don't use HEU in our staged device not even for tamper any high Z material would do even lead tamper can be used. India uses lithium deutride as secondary with plutonium primary . Please don't get carried away in this western propaganda article.

 

[no smoking]

This is the time window to act decisively as important as 1948 and 1971 .

Keyboard warrior, that is why we love them so much.

Also right now the global economy is very messed up and at the risk of unprecedented financial collapse. US is on verge of major recession again and China has slowed down and with serious bubbles.

Surely, rebuilding 2 nations from nuclear ashes will re-boot the whole world economy. Everyone will thank you for it.

Global capitalists don't have many places to invest their money right now. So at this stage the west will not be too eager to play sanctions games against growing market like India for long time. So at this stage the west will not be too eager to play sanctions games against growing market like India for long time.

Oh, no, economic sanction is too slow to stop a nuclear war, Americans and Russians have to use military threats to pull you 2 back from the edge of nuclear war.

War can be costly and we may have to face economic hardships for short time if there is escalation. But India has seen worse days and people will be ready to face it mostly.

Oh, you forget most important part of the cost of war: there will be people die. In the case of nuclear war? you have to count it on millions, both from your enemy and your own country. Not only soldiers, but civilians.
No, India hasn't seen anything even close to ww2, let alone a nuclear war.

In fact such challenges can potentially unite Indians even more and post war rebuilding with nationalist sentiments can actually boost economic growth like post war Japan.

You kidding me.
Japan was forced to kneel by 2 nuclear bombs. They are being American's bitch since then.
Do you really want that happens to India?

 

[LordOfTheUnderworlds]

You kidding me.
Japan was forced to kneel by 2 nuclear bombs. They are being American's bitch since then.
Do you really want that happens to India?

Hmm so whatever remains of Pakistan becomes Indian bitch and they get a chance of redemption and can develope fast. Not a bad deal.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Saar
You don't get me I am not anti India nor am I saying India is technically incompetent if you see my other posts in this forum you would understand me my replies in this thread were against the flawed policies of my country not against India and its technical prowess .

If you compare DF-31A with Agni 5 which can better be converted into a SLBM a 17 m long 50t missile (Agni-5) or a 13 m long 42t missile having tested 8000 km range with PBCS ( post boost control vehicle for MIRV) ( DF-31A) ?? anyone with these data points can gauge the technical prowess of Chinese. I don't think India will ever test ICBMs more than 10000 kms because our leaders don't have guts. ( I pray to God to be wrong here )

You mean to say Chinese were a first world country in 1960s great and as far as civilian program is concerned we are ahead of the Chinese having PFBR , CHTR , AHWR , PHWR , PWR etc but how come they are strategically ( nuclear) ahead of us ???

You have proof we are doing Hydro nuclear tests is it critical or sub critical testing ??? by the way we have a official moratorium on testing . The city you were talking off doesn't test or even make thermonuclear weapons it only churns out HEU from our super critical centrifuges with total of 60000 SWU (China has 3000000 SWU capability) for our future SSBN and SSN cores as far as i know we don't use HEU in our staged device not even for tamper any high Z material would do even lead tamper can be used. India uses lithium deutride as secondary with plutonium primary . Please don't get carried away in this western propaganda article.

I'm not talking about west or commies.
I'm talking about a nuke war with pakland.
Whatever be the result another countries, we know what gonna happen to pakiland. Nor we need any ICBM or even an MRBM to nuke them.
Our topic was about nuclear war between India a pakistan.At least in war of India and pakistan, we will win, end of the story.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Oh, you forget most important part of the cost of war: there will be people die. In the case of nuclear war? you have to count it on millions, both from your enemy and your own country. Not only soldiers, but civilians.

Ever heard about our anti missile shield?

No, India hasn't seen anything even close to ww2, let alone a nuclear war.

But we can tackle easily in such a war.
Yet we will try to to remain away for our economy, but if we are involved deliberately without our wish, we will see it as an excellent opportunity to demonstrate our power.

We have worked for years to come in league of big dogs.

You kidding me.
Japan was forced to kneel by 2 nuclear bombs. They are being American's bitch since then.
Do you really want that happens to India?

What's the size of Japan?
1. India is too large to be destroyed.
2. India can intercept a remarkable number of nuclear attacks before touching surface.
3. And most important thing,
India will nuke you back!!
If any idiot considers us Japan, that will be proved to be a lethal misunderstanding.
Anyway, both India and China has No FirFirst Use Policy. So, nuke war is impossible between us.
We are talking about pakiland, and I've told you many times, pakis bombs are cracker size, even then can be easily intercepted, they and their rusted missiles
they should be happy even if they manage to destroy some cross border villages.

We will thank pakistan if they nuke us.
Reason:
As of nuclear policy, our constitution gives us right to wipe out their failed state from the map with full escalation nuke war.
That can be balance if pakland uses both conventional and nuclear weapons against India's conventional forces only.
But if India brings nuke war in scenario, in that case pak vs India would be like fist fighter vs Machine Gun. :biggrin2:

 

[garg_bharat]

I doubt the restraint of India is linked just to nuclear bombs. India is not yet a strong economic and military entity that can impose its will on other States. The time has not come yet.

India takes these small blows like terrorist acts with calm, and waits for its day.

Pakistan's most likely outcome - it will disintegrate on its own due to its societal problems.

However it may not disintegrate due to war with India. So war is a sub-optimal option for India.

India can however do everything "under the table" as per convenience. India can and should encourage any element willing to fight Pakistani State.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

I doubt the restraint of India is linked just to nuclear bombs. India is not yet a strong economic and military entity that can impose its will on other States. The time has not come yet.

Nope, you're wrong. Not a superpower like US, Russia or China but India is still a strong economic and military power.
And we don't talk generally on this forum, but you should read about how India intervenes in issues of its neighbors and allys. :biggrin2:
Many things are censored in our media and I will not even discuss some more things which you don't know about India for the sake of national security and secrecy.
I will just tell, foreign media isn't idiot praising us.

 

[Chinmoy]

Ofcourse nukes are overrated upto an extent. Its more of an psychological weapon then a tactical one. Especially if you are considering two immediate neighbours like India-Pakistan or India-China. It does hold some influence in USA-Russia scenario, but even there it is not a practical weapon to talk about in Russia-NATO alliance European countries like Germany.

 

[I_PLAY_BAD]

Is our current leadership strong (or foolish) enough to sacrifice a few millions of civilian population to eradicate a permanent problem called Porkistan ?