Are nukes over-rated?

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Then a war now would be best option


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Imagine how many objectives we can achieve at this point.

1) De-nuclearize Pak
2) Wrestle back PoK
- Get direct access to Afghanistan and help the national govt. there if they need it
- Destroy Chinese plans to go to Gwadar through PoK

I do not think India will get such a good chance again in the future.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Saar

Pakistan has 4 reactors we have 1 but we also have 8 CANDU derivatives outside safeguards and also our fast breeder reactor

French are also giving tech to pak. USA also hinting at a deal . With Indian economy growing India is a big target for all and pak is best way to hit india


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[LETHALFORCE]

Imagine how many objectives we can achieve at this point.

1) De-nuclearize Pak
2) Wrestle back PoK
- Get direct access to Afghanistan and help the national govt. there if they need it
- Destroy Chinese plans to go to Gwadar through PoK

I do not think India will get such a good chance again in the future.

Hopefully happens soon


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[warrior monk]

French are also giving tech to pak


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Well both US and China have helped Pakistan's nuclear program directly and indirectly.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Well both US and China have helped Pakistan's nuclear program directly and indirectly.

And they will continue . India has little leverage even Russia helping pak


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[warrior monk]

Imagine how many objectives we can achieve at this point.

1) De-nuclearize Pak
2) Wrestle back PoK
- Get direct access to Afghanistan and help the national govt. there if they need it
- Destroy Chinese plans to go to Gwadar through PoK

I do not think India will get such a good chance again in the future.

The problem with the idea is both US and China will rush to stop the war indirectly helping Pakistan in the name of stopping nuclear war and screwing India.

 

[roma]

Imagine how many objectives we can achieve at this point.
1) De-nuclearize Pak
2) Wrestle back PoK
- Get direct access to Afghanistan and help the national govt. there if they need it
- Destroy Chinese plans to go to Gwadar through PoK
I do not think India will get such a good chance again in the future.

Any of it that can be done covertly .--- is far more realistic

Overtly , NONE of the above will be done with the only exception of a war ...... do we have the sophistication to prod them into war the way china did to us in 1962 ? i dont think so

without a war we dont have the political talent to do a fraction of what you have pointed out ! ..... they cant even iron out our falling number of airforce squadrons ...... conclusion , we are fortunate to hare the country as is ...

the only exception is if they have the brains to do things covertly as packland is doing to us right now in p-kot plus lots of others like mumbai 26/11

@angeldude13@Abhijat@Ancient Indian@anupamsurey@aliyah @Alien@angeldude13@Abhijat@Ancient Indian@anupamsurey @aliyah @Alien @Aravind Sanjeev @A chauhan @asingh10 @asianobserve @BATTLE FIELD@bose @Bornubus @brational@blueblood@Blackwater@Blood+ @bhai-117
@Bangalorean @bengalraider @cobra commando @Chirag @Chris Jude @Chinmoy@Cadian @DingDong@ersakthivel @FRYCRY @guru-dutt@Hari Sud@hit&run @HeinzGud @indiandefencefan @I_PLAY_BAD @Indian Devil @Indibomber @Jangaruda @jackprince@Kunal @Kshatriya87 Biswas@LETHALFORCE@laughingbuddha @mhk99 @maomao @Neil @Nicky G @OneGrimPilgrim@pmaitra @PaliwalWarrior @Pulkit @Rowdy@Razor@Rashna @[email protected] @Sakal Gharelu Ustad @Srinivas_K @sunnyv @sgarg@sabari @Sameet2 @saik @sorcerer @sydsnyper @Sridevi @SREEKAR @TejasMK3@The enlightened
@tejas warrior@tharun@thethinker@tsunami@Screambowl @Sylex21 @VIP @Vishwarupa @Vishal Guts @Yusuf@Yumdoot @Zebra

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

The problem with the idea is both US and China will rush to stop the war indirectly helping Pakistan in the name of stopping nuclear war and screwing India.

Question is how much will these countries help Pak? We have seen US helplessness in Syria and Ukraine.

If India is determined, these countries can do nothing. Also not to forget, India is not a very open economy. It is a domestic demand driven country and there would not be huge fallbacks if these countries place sanctions against India. And I do not think they will risk escalating the war by entering directly into it.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

The problem with the idea is both US and China will rush to stop the war indirectly helping Pakistan in the name of stopping nuclear war and screwing India.

Countries don't rush to get in middle of nuclear exchanges


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[Indx TechStyle]

Saar

Pakistan has 4 reactors we have 1 but we also have 8 CANDU derivatives outside safeguards and also our fast breeder reactor

Nope!! Who told you that?
pakistan has 3 reactors in use and two under construction. India has 21 reactors in use and 6 under construction.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Any of it that can be done covertly .--- is far more realistic

Overtly , NONE of the above will be done with the only exception of a war ...... do we have the sophistication to prod them into war the way china did to us in 1962 ? i dont think so

without a war we dont have the political talent to do a fraction of what you have pointed out ! ..... they cant even iron out our falling number of airforce squadrons ...... conclusion , we are fortunate to hare the country as is ...

the only exception is if they have the brains to do things covertly as packland is doing to us right now in p-kot plus lots of others like mumbai 26/11

@angeldude13@Abhijat@Ancient Indian@anupamsurey@aliyah @Alien@angeldude13@Abhijat@Ancient Indian@anupamsurey @aliyah @Alien @Aravind Sanjeev @A chauhan @asingh10 @asianobserve @BATTLE FIELD@bose @Bornubus @brational@blueblood@Blackwater@Blood+ @bhai-117
@Bangalorean @bengalraider @cobra commando @Chirag @Chris Jude @Chinmoy@Cadian @DingDong@ersakthivel @FRYCRY @guru-dutt@Hari Sud@hit&run @HeinzGud @indiandefencefan @I_PLAY_BAD @Indian Devil @Indibomber @Jangaruda @jackprince@Kunal @Kshatriya87 Biswas@LETHALFORCE@laughingbuddha @mhk99 @maomao @Neil @Nicky G @OneGrimPilgrim@pmaitra @PaliwalWarrior @Pulkit @Rowdy@Razor@Rashna @[email protected] @Sakal Gharelu Ustad @Srinivas_K @sunnyv @sgarg@sabari @Sameet2 @saik @sorcerer @sydsnyper @Sridevi @SREEKAR @TejasMK3@The enlightened
@tejas warrior@tharun@thethinker@tsunami@Screambowl @Sylex21 @VIP @Vishwarupa @Vishal Guts @Yusuf@Yumdoot @Zebra

Covertly- very difficult. You can kill some engineer or some scientists. It is never possible to take out the whole program.

Overtly- politically difficult because GoI does not have the will to do it.

But the point is given long term benefits, it is probably the best time to go for de-nuclearizing Pak. It would be much more difficult in the future once India is heavily dependent on global economy, which can put sanctions against it. Also, Pak will have a much bigger arsenal which means more risk of escalating nuclear exchange. Keeping this in mind, the govt. should plan to neutralize this threat once and for all.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Any of it that can be done covertly .--- is far more realistic

Overtly , NONE of the above will be done with the only exception of a war ...... do we have the sophistication to prod them into war the way china did to us in 1962 ? i dont think so

without a war we dont have the political talent to do a fraction of what you have pointed out ! ..... they cant even iron out our falling number of airforce squadrons ...... conclusion , we are fortunate to hare the country as is ...

the only exception is if they have the brains to do things covertly as packland is doing to us right now in p-kot plus lots of others like mumbai 26/11

@angeldude13@Abhijat@Ancient Indian@anupamsurey@aliyah @Alien@angeldude13@Abhijat@Ancient Indian@anupamsurey @aliyah @Alien @Aravind Sanjeev @A chauhan @asingh10 @asianobserve @BATTLE FIELD@bose @Bornubus @brational@blueblood@Blackwater@Blood+ @bhai-117
@Bangalorean @bengalraider @cobra commando @Chirag @Chris Jude @Chinmoy@Cadian @DingDong@ersakthivel @FRYCRY @guru-dutt@Hari Sud@hit&run @HeinzGud @indiandefencefan @I_PLAY_BAD @Indian Devil @Indibomber @Jangaruda @jackprince@Kunal @Kshatriya87 Biswas@LETHALFORCE@laughingbuddha @mhk99 @maomao @Neil @Nicky G @OneGrimPilgrim@pmaitra @PaliwalWarrior @Pulkit @Rowdy@Razor@Rashna @[email protected] @Sakal Gharelu Ustad @Srinivas_K @sunnyv @sgarg@sabari @Sameet2 @saik @sorcerer @sydsnyper @Sridevi @SREEKAR @TejasMK3@The enlightened
@tejas warrior@tharun@thethinker@tsunami@Screambowl @Sylex21 @VIP @Vishwarupa @Vishal Guts @Yusuf@Yumdoot @Zebra

We can wait it out. Let USA and China have their war and then we get involved


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[Indx TechStyle]

The problem with the idea is both US and China will rush to stop the war indirectly helping Pakistan in the name of stopping nuclear war and screwing India.

And they will be screwed equally because India is no longer a weakling like was in 90s.
If not a superpower, we are enough to protect our interests from those blood and war monger westerners and commies.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Nope!! Who told you that?
pakistan has 3 reactors in use and two under construction. India has 21 reactors in use and 6 under construction.

This is also what I felt but did not reply. Also
China is a NSG member all fuel has to go thru iaea inventorying

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[warrior monk]

Question is how much will these countries help Pak? We have seen US helplessness in Syria and Ukraine.

If India is determined, these countries can do nothing. Also not to forget, India is not a very open economy. It is a domestic demand driven country and there would not be huge fallbacks if these countries place sanctions against India. And I do not think they will risk escalating the war by entering directly into it.

Americans want Syria to be destroyed and this shia sunni conflict is good for USA but in case of INDO-PAK war it will be stopped before it goes nuclear.

 

[Bornubus]

@Sakal Gharelu Ustad @LETHALFORCE @Bornubus
Just a few factors:

1. Pakistan has 3 and India has 21 reactors. Leave alone our fast breeder reactor or our future installations. We currently use most of them in electricity production. At war time, we can make bombs at enormous speed.

2.Size of the nuclear bombs: a very big factor.

3. Reliability of bombs and warheads:
India has been working in many key technologies like miniaturizing reactors for civilian purposes, new designs for hard water plants and Ion thruster- particle accelerators, fusion based reactors(yet India never uses a fusion reactors because you can't withdraw material from it) etc..
Obviously, that experience will help us to make our bombs better. If today, India tests a thermonuclear hydrogen bomb or a nuclear warhead, there is very high probability of its success.

4.Population and Area of India!!!!
How much they could destroy?

5. Anti Missile Shield.

6. Our fierce and still growing conventional forces can face their babay tactical nukes.
But if we won't response with nukes to nukes, their size will be reduced till war ends. But yes, they will win war.

7. Advanced Delivery Systems.

8. Our Nuclear Triad

Totally, if anything which will create more problem, that is foreign intervention.
Remember always, there are some topics where pakistan's all the three uncle Sams(US, Russia and China) are standing against India.
That may be India's UNSC permanent membership or nuclear attack on pakland.
You may have understood what I'm saying about those 3 idiots? :biggrin2:

We don't require or have a miniaturized Nukes tech but pakis have it,probably by Bheekh.

It's an achievement,we shouldn't lag behind.

 

[warrior monk]

Nope!! Who told you that?
pakistan has 3 reactors in use and two under construction. India has 21 reactors in use and 6 under construction.

Pakis have khusab 1 to 4 we just have Dhruva-1 and the CANDU derivatives are also outside safeguards plus pakis have more centrifuges than india though we are making new centrifuges.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Americans want Syria to be destroyed and this shia sunni conflict is good for USA but in case of INDO-PAK war it will be stopped before it goes nuclear.

Why/how would USA stop a war between two nuclear nations?


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[LETHALFORCE]

Pakis have khusab 1 to 4 we just have Dhruva-1 and the CANDU derivatives are also outside safeguards plus pakis have more centrifuges than india though we are making new centrifuges.

I think we should stop this argument that pak capability is beyond India. They have not reached this point and probably never will . By 2020 fast breeders up and running will alone be able to produce 700 warheads annually by some estimates


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[Indx TechStyle]

Also, Pak will have a much bigger arsenal which means more risk of escalating nuclear exchange.

pakistan will have enough nukes to destroy India in future as the time passes, can sound sane,

but pakistan can have capacity of producing more fissile material than India? Impossible!!
At least watching current gap of capacity and speed of India(case is different we are using it peacefully).