Are Lions and Cheetahs not indigenous to India?

GPM

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horses were not known in south india??? Weren't horses used ramayana war?? Indrajit was using a flying chariot right?? So if lanka had, why would not south india not have it???
If Indus seals are litmus then note that horse is found on them.

Sinh is Sanskrit for a lion. It is mentioned in ancient texts. Who has not heard of Narsimha avatar?
 

tramp

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You just compared radical Islam with Hinduism :facepalm:
If there is radical Islam, there could be radical Hinduism too, isn't it?
That apart, my point is religious texts, unless they can be scientifically dated, cannot be used to time anthropological evolution. Moreover, what happens in traditions carried by word through generations is that the narrative could get corrupted by time and what was available when the practice of recording them in written text began would be much different from the original. Then how can you take the text as proof? As Ramayan could have existed long before the practice of recording text in writing became prevalent, the original must have got changed.
 

tramp

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Romila Thapar is an anthropologist? Is she authority on natural history? She should have kept away from such topics and left them to specialists.

What are her arguments? Since lion motiff is not found Indus seals, so it came to India after that!! Do you know the meaning even? That Asiatic and African lions developed differences within 2500-3000 years? Genetic differences, mind you.

Linkage with Rama? She opposed excavations at Ayodhya. It is on record. Her reasons was that findings might upset history. That too is on record. Leave aside the historicity of Ram, she is much more interested in preserving her Aryan Invasion Theory.

PS: Litmus test, according to her, is acceptance or rejection of Aryan Invasion.


Yes. Take artifacts recovered from any site in the world. Can you expect whole range of flora and fauna represented?

What an a$$y distorian.
How much genetically different is Asiatic and African lions? I have no idea and that needs to be studied. Physical characteristics could have been acquired because of the habitats. Some geneticist will have to do the studies.
It is safe to assume that if lions were present in Indus Valley, they would have appeared on the seals because they are such imposing creatures.
Like you said there is also a chance that lion seals did not survive to be found. Their absence is not conclusive proof, unless corroborated by other means.
 

Sridhar

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Siruthai - Leopard
Puli or Varippuli - Tiger (vari means lines)
Vengai - Not sure can be tiger or Leopard
Singam - Lion
Arima- Lion
 

tramp

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Then there is radical sick christianty as well.
There is. The truth is any religion can become radical when its followers think they can use coercion by physical force or otherwise to "protect" what they believe is their religion. This force could be directed against members of other religion or at members of their own religion to enforce a stricter observance... like the Wahhabis and Sriram Sene do.
 

Patriot

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There is. The truth is any religion can become radical when its followers think they can use coercion by physical force or otherwise to "protect" what they believe is their religion. This force could be directed against members of other religion or at members of their own religion to enforce a stricter observance... like the Wahhabis and Sriram Sene do.
Sriram sene are thugs only, they are doing gundagiri in the mask of religious name.
 

GPM

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Then there is radical sick christianty as well.
Yeah. They try to prove Bhagvad Gita is a degraded form of New Testament, that Brahma is derived from Abraham, that Sarsvati is from Sarah. etc. For them there is nothing good that came from India. Romila too is like that. For her everything good came with muslims.
 

HEILTAMIL

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time of origin of tanric deities and mythological figures should be considered when they are reffered

first man=african and the african migration theory can suit the vested interests of europeans to justify their migrations and genocides but it sadly should not ours!!!
 

parijataka

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Bottom line is humans as well as lions first appeared in Africa.

Evolution of Lions

Fossil remains found in the Cromer Stage suggest that the lion entered Europe with a gigantic form. Frequently encountered lion bones in cave deposits from Eemian times suggest that the late Pleistocene European cave lion Panthera leo spelaea survived in the Balkans and Asia minor. Probably there was a continuous population extending into India.[25] Cave lions appeared about 600,000 years ago and were distributed throughout Europe, across Siberia and into western Alaska. The gradual formation of dense forest likely caused the decline in geographic range of lions near the end of the late Pleistocene. Aristotle mentioned this fossil subspecies that became extinct 100 to 300 B.C.[11]

Phylogenetic analysis of cave lion DNA samples showed that they were highly distinct from their living relatives, and represent lineages that were isolated from lions in Africa and Asia since their dispersal over Europe in prehistoric times. They went extinct without mitochondrial descendants on other continents.[26]

A phylogeographic analysis based on mtDNA sequences of lions from across their entire range indicates that sub-Saharan African lions are phylogenetically basal to all modern lions, supporting a single African origin model of modern lion evolution. The centre of origin for modern lions is probably eastern–southern Africa from where lions migrated to West Africa, eastern North Africa and via the periphery of the Arabian Peninsula into Turkey, southern Europe and northern India during the last ca. 20,000 years. The Great Rift Valley has been implicated as a barrier to lion dispersal.[27]

Lions inhabited the southern part of the Balkan peninsula up to Macedonia and probably Danube River but disappeared in Greece around the first century. In the Trans-Caucasus, they were known since the Holocene and became extinct in the 10th century.[13] Their restricted distribution in India attests that they are comparatively recent immigrants that made their way into India through Persia and Baluchistan.[6]

Prior to 2000 BC, the climate of northern India was wet and the habitat more conducive to jungle hunters like tigers rather than dry grassland hunters like lions. Lions may have entered India after the climate became drier and the Saraswati river dried up. This may be why there are no lions depicted in Harappan art
 

tramp

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time of origin of tanric deities and mythological figures should be considered when they are reffered

first man=african and the african migration theory can suit the vested interests of europeans to justify their migrations and genocides but it sadly should not ours!!!
What is your theory of human evolution? And lions?
 

tramp

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Bottom line is humans as well as lions first appeared in Africa.

Evolution of Lions

Fossil remains found in the Cromer Stage suggest that the lion entered Europe with a gigantic form. Frequently encountered lion bones in cave deposits from Eemian times suggest that the late Pleistocene European cave lion Panthera leo spelaea survived in the Balkans and Asia minor. Probably there was a continuous population extending into India.[25] Cave lions appeared about 600,000 years ago and were distributed throughout Europe, across Siberia and into western Alaska. The gradual formation of dense forest likely caused the decline in geographic range of lions near the end of the late Pleistocene. Aristotle mentioned this fossil subspecies that became extinct 100 to 300 B.C.[11]

Phylogenetic analysis of cave lion DNA samples showed that they were highly distinct from their living relatives, and represent lineages that were isolated from lions in Africa and Asia since their dispersal over Europe in prehistoric times. They went extinct without mitochondrial descendants on other continents.[26]

A phylogeographic analysis based on mtDNA sequences of lions from across their entire range indicates that sub-Saharan African lions are phylogenetically basal to all modern lions, supporting a single African origin model of modern lion evolution. The centre of origin for modern lions is probably eastern–southern Africa from where lions migrated to West Africa, eastern North Africa and via the periphery of the Arabian Peninsula into Turkey, southern Europe and northern India during the last ca. 20,000 years. The Great Rift Valley has been implicated as a barrier to lion dispersal.[27]

Lions inhabited the southern part of the Balkan peninsula up to Macedonia and probably Danube River but disappeared in Greece around the first century. In the Trans-Caucasus, they were known since the Holocene and became extinct in the 10th century.[13] Their restricted distribution in India attests that they are comparatively recent immigrants that made their way into India through Persia and Baluchistan.[6]

Prior to 2000 BC, the climate of northern India was wet and the habitat more conducive to jungle hunters like tigers rather than dry grassland hunters like lions. Lions may have entered India after the climate became drier and the Saraswati river dried up. This may be why there are no lions depicted in Harappan art
@parijataka, are there any phylogenetic comparison of African and Asiatic lions that you know of? Unfortunately these are the only two morphologically distinct lions alive now.
 
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A chauhan

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If there is radical Islam, there could be radical Hinduism too, isn't it?
That apart, my point is religious texts, unless they can be scientifically dated, cannot be used to time anthropological evolution. Moreover, what happens in traditions carried by word through generations is that the narrative could get corrupted by time and what was available when the practice of recording them in written text began would be much different from the original. Then how can you take the text as proof? As Ramayan could have existed long before the practice of recording text in writing became prevalent, the original must have got changed.
Even if it exists then too it's an insult to be compared with radical Islam.

I didn't give Durga Maa's example as an evidence, I gave it as a target of these leftists. You need to see the hidden intent of such writers to judge their work. These writers are famous to spread leftist propaganda, and their next step will be to challenge the Hindu texts,to support AIT which has been debunked with genetic studies.That's why I gave that example but you took it another way.
 

A chauhan

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If the rock paintings and IVC doesn't show any lion in the pics then it doesn't mean that they never existed in India. How common is it to keep Lion's sculptures at home ? They could have declined due to weather change and hunting.They quoted Mahesh Rangrajan for the period between 1875 and 1925 while Asiatic lions have been equally mentioned during the Mughal period. Babur, the founder of the Moghul Empire, was very famous for hunting lions and he gave accounts of lions killed by him in his Babarnama.As opposed to their views Lions were found across the country for e.g. Bihar where they declined due to hunting. Indian astrology was originally developed in India and has "Simha Rashi" (Leo Zodiac sign).

http://www.dijitalimaj.com/alamyDetail.aspx?img={00F07A7B-9778-4E18-967F-61DEB0B11A80}
 

HEILTAMIL

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What is your theory of human evolution? And lions?
humans could have possibly existed/ originated/ evolved at multiple places at the same time, shifting of stars and suns geological shifting plays a prominent role in evolution of intelligence, so the balance of intellect cycles around the world and evolves constantly

96 tatva principle/ darwin's principle can be applied but not falling from the sky though!!
tatva principle is more promising than the later
however european theories were more showcased and araised to clean their conscience

1.Lions need not have existed in southern India or
2. may be hunted down much earlier as they were group dwellers and living in plains, making them an easy prey for intellectual humans, but i stick to the former
 

tramp

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time of origin of tanric deities and mythological figures should be considered when they are reffered

first man=african and the african migration theory can suit the vested interests of europeans to justify their migrations and genocides but it sadly should not ours!!!
How does African origin suit European vested interests?
 

HEILTAMIL

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How does African origin suit European vested interests?
african origin hypothesis was born at the peak of European racism , any one had a non-white tone was inferior by de-facto, it provided them the necessary reason to conduct genocide wherever possible, they used these same theories to create artificial famines in southern India as well during 1840-1880s which killed 30 million people, it got toned down after ww2 waiting to burst again when given a chance

the recent corroborations with DNA markers are not acceptable when the knowledge and origin of influential pattern of DNA is not clear,

humans feudal instincts always or at-least until now triumphs their intellect
 

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