nimo_cn
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Hard to believe that lie fools so many people.The whole chinese growth story has been one long lie.
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Hard to believe that lie fools so many people.The whole chinese growth story has been one long lie.
I think this is best comment in this thread, i need to bring and translate this to some chinese forum, with the India discussion topic there...The whole chinese growth story has been one long lie.
No matter how many LOLs are posted, it appears that the situation is grim.
That the local Govts have squandered money on scheme that are not remunerative is no secret.
In fact, on Chinese economy, there was an article that I read sometimes back, when the Chinese economy was really soaring, a Chinese (Red Chinese) economist had criticised the local Govts for much of the fiscal problems that were niggling at that time.
ON the 'mindset of Indian Friends' it maybe worth noting that this article, Are Chinese Banks Hiding "The Mother of All Debt Bombs"? is not the view of 'Indian friends' or their mindset, but the mindset of a Chinese friend who responds to the name of Minxin Pei.
It is claimed that he is an expert on governance in the People's Republic of China,
Permit me an LOL. It is very contagious!
In fact if we look the things from the other side, such kind of "China collapse" point of view would be good for China. I believe that the "sense of survive" can make a nation stronger, no matter those warnings and shittings from ur friend or opponent, internal or external. They at least make u always be clear for what u r doing and keep the brain cautious.well, always there were/are lots of "Chinese (red Chinese) economists" blah "chinese economy to callapse" in China,such as Lang Xianping....etc...
and Chinese people are used to their words like "CHinese to callapse" already
Indian guys here like you pay so attention to such words,just because they don't understand China.
i agree with you.In fact if we look the things from the other side, such kind of "China collapse" point of view would be good for China. I believe that the "sense of survive" can make a nation stronger, no matter those warnings and shittings from ur friend or opponent, internal or external. They at least make u always be clear for what u r doing and keep the brain cautious.
Now it is 2012, the bubble burst and China's economy has come to a screeching halt = Hard Landinglol after 2008 everyone was saying "oh property bubble", or "oh hard landing!!"
now they are saying the same things, with two differences.
one, it is now 2012, and two now they are now in the tone of "maybe".
Indian media:Now it is 2012, the bubble burst and China's economy has come to a screeching halt = Hard Landing
frankly speaking, During 2008-2012,it is EU and USA that have encouter bubble burst of their economy anc come to a screech halt= hard landing.Now it is 2012, the bubble burst and China's economy has come to a screeching halt = Hard Landing
What do you expect us to do? Does your Government provide the real picture and statistics, I do not think so. Let me give you an example of a private Chinese company traded on Toronto Stock Exchange called Sino Forest Inc. If a private company can cook up fraud of this magnitude than why we should believe everything your Government says whose books are not open to the people of China leave alone accounting firms of the nation. Here is the text for your examination.well, always there were/are lots of "Chinese (red Chinese) economists" blah "chinese economy to callapse" in China,such as Lang Xianping....etc...
and Chinese people are used to their words like "CHinese to callapse" already
Indian guys here like you pay so attention to such words,just because they don't understand China.
Can you please go back to the page one of the thread and read the post before posting a response? Thank you.i think this is BS i dont think china is in debt but i think they are reducing external investment and focusing inside . this can cause to trigger a big bomb
Is there any Chinese make such a claim "Nothing in China can collaplse"? I don't see one. It seems that you are twisting others words again!Thanks my Chinese friends.
So, those Chinese posters flying false flags and claiming to know of everything of China and contesting critique posts of others, are equal frauds as Pei, right?
Nothing in China can collapse. Statistics can be fudged. Pei is a heretic!
Is there anything you know about Today's China?We must never forget China has surfaced from greater catastrophes than this - "Great Leap Forward", the Cultural Revolution , and even the Three Years of Natural Disasters and the Great Sparrow Campaign.
And of course the 100 Flowers Campaign, where it was cleverly designed to find out the enemies of Mao and the People! And half a million were purged in the Anti Rightist Movement.
The Peasant and Worker of China will continue to stomp along no matter what crisis come their way under the benign and wise guidance of the Communist Party.
1 there are some chinese companies that are not presenting real figures to the public or have their other problems.....tell me which country doesnt have that kind of companies??like this one??What do you expect us to do? Does your Government provide the real picture and statistics, I do not think so. Let me give you an example of a private Chinese company traded on Toronto Stock Exchange called Sino Forest Inc. If a private company can cook up fraud of this magnitude than why we should believe everything your Government says whose books are not open to the people of China leave alone accounting firms of the nation. Here is the text for your examination.
HELP US UNDERSTAND CHINA THAN I WILL NOT BOTHER YOU. What we have been asking is that there should be transparency in your country so that people can examine the books if they wish to. Is that too much to ask for, I do not think so.
2 no one needs to take the responsibility of letting you understand china...its your own choice to do so if you like....and if you dont like no one cares at all......
well,what took place around me tells me the real figure....What do you expect us to do? Does your Government provide the real picture and statistics, I do not think so. Let me give you an example of a private Chinese company traded on Toronto Stock Exchange called Sino Forest Inc. If a private company can cook up fraud of this magnitude than why we should believe everything your Government says whose books are not open to the people of China leave alone accounting firms of the nation. Here is the text for your examination.
Peter Koven | May 22, 2012 12:04 PM ET | Last Updated: May 22, 2012 7:16 PM ET
More from Peter Koven
Xavier Ng/Reuters
Xavier Ng/Reuters The company logo of Sino-Forest is displayed at the entrance of its office in Hong Kong.
After an exhaustive investigation involving many of its most senior people, the Ontario Securities Commission alleges the short-sellers were right: Sino-Forest Corp. has committed a massive and complex fraud.
The landmark allegations, which took nearly a year to put together, imply a vast and wide-ranging scheme by Sino-Forest insiders to inflate the value of its assets and revenues. The commission's findings support the most serious fraud allegations that were previously made against Sino, while introducing new ones.
The OSC alleges Sino held "undisclosed control" over the network of third parties through which it conducted purchase and sale transactions. In turn, these deals were backed by fraudulent contracts that were not drafted until the quarter after they allegedly took place and revenue from them was recognized.
'I think this is a very positive development and the OSC is to be commended for acting swiftly'
The commission also lobbed new allegations against former chief executive Allen Chan, saying he secretly controlled companies that made $22-million when Sino-Forest acquired control of Greenheart Group Ltd., a Hong Kong-based firm. Five other former executives, including chief financial officer David Horsley, have been accused of fraud.
The allegations have not been proven. If proven, Sino-Forest represents one of the largest frauds in Canadian market history.
The Sino-Forest investigation was a particularly challenging one for the OSC, as it had to overcome language and cultural barriers in China while trying to unwind Sino's complex web of third-party relationships.
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Sources said the commission did not do anything out of the ordinary in this investigation — it simply interviewed everyone it could and studied every document it came across.
Experts said the OSC moved quite quickly on the file, given the scope of the investigation and the difficulties involved.
"I think this is a very positive development and the OSC is to be commended for acting swiftly," said Dimitri Lascaris, a partner at Siskinds LLP, which is co-leading a class-action lawsuit against Sino-Forest. "Relatively speaking, this is fast for any Canadian regulator."
In its statement of allegations, the commission analyzed four of Sino-Forest's transactions that it claims were fraudulent. The biggest of them involves a company called Gengma Forestry.
In that case, Sino bought standing timber and land use rights from Gengma Forestry for about $14-million in 2007. The OSC states that the transaction was never recorded, and that Sino purported to buy the same assets from Yuda Wood (an alleged undisclosed subsidiary) for $83-million.
In 2010, the standing timber was purportedly sold for $231-million, the OSC said. However, the same assets were offered as collateral on a Sino-Forest bank loan in 2011, suggesting the sale could not have taken place a year earlier and been reported as revenue.
The OSC raised other troubling questions about the legitimacy of Sino's purchase and sales contracts. For example, the commission stated that forestry bureau employees, who provided confirmations of Sino's tree ownership, obtained gifts and cash payments from Sino's suppliers.
At its peak, Sino-Forest was worth more than $6-billion. Its epic collapse began in June of last year, when short seller Muddy Waters LLC accused the company of fraud. Sino was unable to file its 2011 financial results because of uncertainty around its third-party relationships, which forced the company into creditor protection last March. By that point, Sino's business in China was effectively destroyed by the fraud allegations.
The OSC allegations did not come as a surprise to investors. Last month, Sino-Forest said it received enforcement notices from the commission. Those are typically issued near the end of investigations, giving the targets a final opportunity to respond before formal allegations are launched.
HELP US UNDERSTAND CHINA THAN I WILL NOT BOTHER YOU. What we have been asking is that there should be transparency in your country so that people can examine the books if they wish to. Is that too much to ask for, I do not think so.
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