Andaman & Nicobar Defence Discussion

Yusuf

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I don't expect the PLAN carrier to come anywhere close to the Indian Ocean. It will stay put in the pacific closer to home.

We need strike aircrafts in the Andamans to take care of any threats on the ground. I don't think air superiority will be required there. There is no challenge to India in the air in that region. We are the most powerful AF here.
 

Kunal Biswas

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I don't expect the PLAN carrier to come anywhere close to the Indian Ocean. It will stay put in the pacific closer to home.

We need strike aircrafts in the Andamans to take care of any threats on the ground. I don't think air superiority will be required there. There is no challenge to India in the air in that region. We are the most powerful AF here.
Unless you cut the trade routes, This routes are life line for China and PLAN responsibility to secure it, In presence of IAF over Andamans its obvious PLAN will use Carrier borne fighters to counter it or capture it..

The trade route supply China most of its oil..
 

debasree

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also we need to station some of our missile assets in there to keep china in cheque.
 

ace009

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Also, an IAF base in the Andamans will cause India's allies like Malayasia, Singapore and Vietnam to breath easy as they can expect Indian help sooner in case of Chinese aggression. India should form a defence pact with the SEATO nations ASAP.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Some Comparison Between MIG-29K & NLCA..

MIG-29K

SIZE:
# Length: 17.3 m (57.76 ft)
# Wingspan: 11.99 m (39.34 ft)
# Height: 4.40 m (14.44 ft)
Performance:
# Ferry range: 2,000 km (1,240 mi) / 3,000 km (1,860 mi) with 3 drop tanks
# Service ceiling: 17,500 m (57,400 ft)
Armament:

* 1 x 30 mm GSh-30-1 cannon with 100 rounds
* 9 hardpoints: 8 x under-wing, 1 x centerline for up to 5,500 kg (12,125 lb) of weapons and fuel tanks[38] including

Air to air missiles:
* AA-11 "Archer" infrared-guided short range AAM
* AA-10 "Alamo" semi-active radar homing medium range AAM, AAM,
* AA-12 "Adder" active radar homing medium range AAM

Anti-ship missile
* Kh-31A medium range sea-skimming Anti ship missile,
* Kh-35 long-range active radar homing head Anti ship missile
Zhuk radar




Zhuk-M (Export Designation Zhuk-ME)


The N010M Zhuk-M is an advanced variant of the original N010 Zhuk radar introducing advanced air to surface functions like mapping and terrain following. The radar forms part of the MiG-29SMT upgrade, the Zhuk-ME finding success on export MiG-29 aircraft to countries like India. The radar features improved signal processing and has a detection range of up to 120 km vs a 5 m2 RCS target for the export variant, and up to 10 targets tracked and up to 4 attacked at once in air to air mode.[5] The tracking range is 0.83 - 0.85 of the detection range. In air to surface mode the radar can detect a tank from up to 25 km away and a bridge from 120 km away, a naval destroyer could be detected up to 300 km away and up to two surface targets can be tracked at once. The radar has a weight of 220 kg and a scanning area of +/- 85 degrees in azimuth and +56/-40 degrees in elevation. The antenna is an electronically scanned slotted planar array and has a diameter of 624 mm.[5]
ENGINE: Klimov RD-33



HAL master the assembly of next generation jet engines, including RD-33MK (Sea Wasp) engines for deck based MiG-29K naval fighters being acquired under the Gorshkov aircraft carrier deal. It will also help develop thrust-vectoring engines for the MiG-35 fighters.

General characteristics
* Type: Afterburning Turbofan
* Length: 4,229 mm (166.50 in)
* Diameter: 1,000 mm ( 39.37 in)
* Dry weight: 1,055 kg (2,326 lb)

Performance
* Maximum thrust: 50.0 kN (11,230 lbf) Dry, 81.3 kN (18,285 lbf) Afterburning
* Specific fuel consumption: 75 kg/(kN·h) (0.77 lb/(lbf·h)) dry, 188 kg/(kN·h) (1.85 lb/(lbf·h))
US$46.25 million including spares and support





NLCA


Size:
# Length: 13.20 m (43 ft 4 in)
# Wingspan: 8.20 m (26 ft 11 in)
# Height: 4.40 m (14 ft 9 in)
Useful Weight:
# Loaded weight: 9,500 kg (20,945 lb)
# Max takeoff weight: 13,500 kg (31,967 lb)
Performance:
# Range: 3000 km (1,840 mi (without refueling))
# Service ceiling: 16,500 m (54,000 ft (engine re-igniter safely capable))
Armament:

# Guns: 1× mounted 23 mm twin-barrel GSh-23 cannon with 220 rounds of ammunition.
# Hardpoints: 8 total: 1× beneath the port-side intake trunk, 6× under-wing, and 1× under-fuselage with a capacity of >4000 kg external fuel and ordnance

# Air-to-air missiles:
* Vympel R-77 (NATO reporting name: AA-12 Adder)
* Vympel R-73 (NATO reporting name: AA-11 Archer)

# Anti-ship missile
* Kh-35
* Kh-31
* Scalp
Hybrid EL/M-2032 radar..



DRDO to co-operate with Israel Aerospace Industries to integrate a Hybrid version of the EL/M-2032 radar for use with Tejas.

EL/M-2032 air-to-air mode has a detection and tracking range of up to 150 km, the air-to-ground mode generates high resolution radar imagery of locations at up to 150 km, and air-to-sea mode can detect and classify naval targets at ranges of up to 300 km

Physical Characteristics
72-100 Kg depending on antenna size.
2-3 KVA. depending on Transmitter configuration.
Antenna Size: adapted to aircraft nose limitations

Engine: General Electric F404-GE-IN20




The F404-GE-IN20 is a variant of F404-GE-402 engine designed to meet the requirements of the Indian Air Force and Navy for the Tejas, formerly LCA, combat aircraft. Modifications introduced into the -IN20 engine include redundant features and an advanced Full Authority Digital Electronic Control (FADEC).

The Indian ADA agency awarded General Electric a $105 million contract in February 2004 for development engineering and production of 17 F404-GE-IN20 engines. The Indian Air Force will take delivery of its first -IN20 engines in 2006. These engines will be used to power low rate (also called limited) production Tejas/LCA aircraft.

General characteristics

* Type: Afterburning turbofan
* Length: 154 in (3,912 mm)
* Diameter: 35 in (889 mm)
* Dry weight: 2,282 lb (1,036 kg)


Maximum thrust:


* 11,000 lbf (48.9 kN) military thrust
* 20,200 lbf (83.2 kN rated ) with afterburner ( http://www.scramble.nl/wiki/index.php?title=General_Electric_F404#F404-GE-IN20)

# Specific fuel consumption:
# Military thrust: 0.81 lb/(lbf·h) (82.6 kg/(kN·h))
# Full afterburner: 1.74 lb/(lbf·h) (177.5 kg/(kN·h))

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/media/4475-1/GE-engine-info.pdf

US$31.09 million (Naval version)
 

ace009

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Some Comparison Between MIG-29K & NLCA..

MIG-29K






US$46.25 million including spares and support





NLCA









US$31.09 million (Naval version)
So Kunal, why are we wasting our money on the Russian (junk) Mig-29Ks again? Why don't the navy ask HAL to pinch their nose and build them 20-25 N-LCA in the next 2 years?
 

Yusuf

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Unless you cut the trade routes, This routes are life line for China and PLAN responsibility to secure it, In presence of IAF over Andamans its obvious PLAN will use Carrier borne fighters to counter it or capture it..

The trade route supply China most of its oil..
Do you think China will send it's lone carrier to IOR? I don't think so
 

Kunal Biswas

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So Kunal, why are we wasting our money on the Russian (junk) Mig-29Ks again? Why don't the navy ask HAL to pinch their nose and build them 20-25 N-LCA in the next 2 years?
The answer lies in LCA program itself..

Do you think China will send it's lone carrier to IOR? I don't think so
Yes, Its stupid thinking abt it, But what other choice they have ?

Airsupport From mainland to Andaman is not possible even with refuelers, The only possibility is a Aircraft carrier..
 

ace009

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The answer lies in LCA program itself..



Yes, Its stupid thinking abt it, But what other choice they have ?

Airsupport From mainland to Andaman is not possible even with refuelers, The only possibility is a Aircraft carrier..
Unless they are flying over Myanmar over the mountains.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Unless they are flying over Myanmar over the mountains.
I seriously doubt, But if happened, IAF will be counter-them form N.E airbases..

Burma is very good with India, In case of war they would never allow PLAAF fighter and IAF fighter crashing on their ground so does the pilots..


 

Yusuf

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Yes, Its stupid thinking abt it, But what other choice they have ?

Airsupport From mainland to Andaman is not possible even with refuelers, The only possibility is a Aircraft carrier..
The answer is, they cant do squat about it. Any war with India will be across the border and not in the IOR. That's why they are so jittery. That's why the string of pearls to make sure they keep having ports in different countries to secure supplies under different flags.
 

Kunal Biswas

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The answer is, they cant do squat about it. Any war with India will be across the border and not in the IOR. That's why they are so jittery. That's why the string of pearls to make sure they keep having ports in different countries to secure supplies under different flags.
A Full fledged war is across every dimension including space, In our case with China we have an edge over IOR, Its obvious we will take advantage of it, Most String of Pearl bases are listening posts and a safe haven for merchant ships to cease trade and harbor their under different flags..
 

Yusuf

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A Full fledged war is across every dimension including space, In our case with China we have an edge over IOR, Its obvious we will take advantage of it, Most String of Pearl bases are listening posts and a safe haven for merchant ships to cease trade and harbor their under different flags..
Exactly. Though IOR is where they have a problem in terms of both supply and trade, they just can't so anything about IN, let alone USN. Their navy's prime concern is the Pacific and South China Sea in particular. Taiwan for them remains a big issue.

In the event of any Chinese pressure on our border, the first thing India should do is press their nerves in IOR. How many ships will they flag with other countries? India should reserve the right to stop any ship with Chinese goods or energy supplies to China even if it means an act of war with the third country. As it is the third country will be ones like Panama which would not bother jumping up and down for China.
 

Phenom

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The answer is, they cant do squat about it. Any war with India will be across the border and not in the IOR. That's why they are so jittery. That's why the string of pearls to make sure they keep having ports in different countries to secure supplies under different flags.
They will most likely use Subs to take out any IN ships enforcing a blockade. They have a potent Submarine force which is being trained to take on US carrier fleet, so we would probably need a lot of ASW aircrafts and ships in that area.
 

Yusuf

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They will most likely use Subs to take out any IN ships enforcing a blockade. They have a potent Submarine force which is being trained to take on US carrier fleet, so we would probably need a lot of ASW aircrafts and ships in that area.
Thats why we have or in the process of acquiring better ASW platforms.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Exactly. Though IOR is where they have a problem in terms of both supply and trade, they just can't so anything about IN, let alone USN. Their navy's prime concern is the Pacific and South China Sea in particular. Taiwan for them remains a big issue.
USN or America wont be directly involve with China, I assume u are looking into present south-china sea situation, Only three US light destroyer taking part in excerises in South China Sea, Regarding tiawan request of modern F-16 updates it got 30 Apaches..

Every thing depend on us, At-least Initially..

They will most likely use Subs to take out any IN ships enforcing a blockade. They have a potent Submarine force which is being trained to take on US carrier fleet, so we would probably need a lot of ASW aircrafts and ships in that area.
Thats why we have or in the process of acquiring better ASW platforms.
Exactly, PLAN subs activity are known as far as Bay of Bengal, IN know this and IN fleets consists of heavy ASW frigates and Corvettes with Kilo class in Bay of Bengal..

IN will know what to do, What we are discussing here, Is something discussed long ago within IN..
 

Kunal Biswas

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Friends Have a Look Here:

According to a source in the Guangzhou Military Region, which is in charge of the South China Sea, the tactical plan was drawn up in early 2009.


The two main pillars of the policy are the use of bombers to weaken island defenses and a subsequent landing of troops using amphibious assault ships.


The Chinese military has focused on these two tactics in recent training exercises.
http://defenceforumindia.com/military-strategy/23013-plan-s-battle-plan-scenario.html#post280548
 
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India to up defences in Andamans, Lakshadweep - The Economic Times

India to up defences in Andamans, Lakshadweep

NEW DELHI: Keeping in mind China's forays into the Indian Ocean region, India has approved plans to beef up its military infrastructure and force levels in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands and the Lakshadweep chains on the eastern and western seaboards.

The plans, approved at a meeting of the country's security top brass last month, involves the ramping of army, navy, air force and coast guard infrastructure, including a radar network, and force levels of both men and machines, a top defence ministry official said.

"The plans, approved at a meeting of the armed forces with the national security adviser's office last month, involves significant enhancement of military infrastructure and force accretion in both the Andaman and Nicobar and Lakshadweep chains," the official said on condition of anonymity.

There is growing realisation in India that the island territories hold the key to dominating the vital maritime zones and securing the economic and strategic interests, apart from boosting engagements with friendly countries such as Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia, Myanmar, Sri Lanka, Mauritius and the Maldives by offering support in capacity building, military assets transfer, and joint patrolling of the common maritime borders.

The Andaman and Nicobar chain already hosts a tri-services command, with elements of the army, navy and air force as part of its force structure, while the Lakshadweep chain has a coast guard district headquarters and stations.

Among the approvals obtained are upgrading the Andaman and Nicobar Islands as an amphibious warfare training hub, as also increasing the army's force levels to more than a brigade, the official said.

The naval air bases at Port Blair and the air force base in Car Nicobar too will be upgraded to facilitate fighter jet, helicopter and heavy transport plane operations.

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has already tried out its potent frontline Sukhoi SU-30 fighter jets from air bases in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands.

The Shibpur airstrip in north Andamans will be extended from 3,200 feet to 12,000 feet to support all types of aircraft and night-flying operations.

The navy and air force bases in both the island chains will also deploy unmanned aerial vehicles, to augment surveillance alongside the radar chains.

The IAF chief, Air Chief Marshal P.V. Naik, when asked about the force accretion plans, said: "Of course, we are (going to do it). But it will happen in a planned manner. It is not immediate, but over the next two or three (five-year) plans."

The navy, on its part, will scale up the jetties at Diglipur in north Andamans, Kamorta in south Andamans and Campbell Bay in Car Nicobar into "operational turn-around bases" with better refuelling and communication facilities, and more personnel.

It will also place more warships, including landing pontoon docks that aid amphibious warfare with capacity to carry combat troops and battle tanks, in the Andaman and Nicobar chain.

In Lakshadweep, the coast guard has already opened a district headquarters and operates a couple of stations. Now the navy plans to have a detachment in the island chain, which would be upgraded into a full-fledged base in the future with fast attack craft and interceptor boats.

The armed forces in the Lakshadweep will also act as deterrents to the Somali pirates operating around the island chain, particularly in the Nine Degree Channel and the Arabian Sea.
 

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Kalaikunda fighters in charge of Andaman and Nicobar Islands defences


KALAIKUNDA: The air base at Kalaikunda will now play an extremely crucial role in the country's defences.


Aircraft based here will be involved in air defence over the strategic Andaman and Nicobar Islands and the Bay of Bengal. The tri-services command at the A&N Islands will be in charge of the squadrons of Su-30 MKIs and other advanced aircraft based at Kalaikunda for this specific purpose.


This decision was taken when plans for basing Sukhois in the Andamans got scuttled after the 2004 tsunami in which the IAF lost assets. "Till now, Kalaikunda - while performing several other duties - has been a bridge with the Andamans. The role of the base will grow and aircraft based here will play a vital role in patrolling the skies over the Andamans and the Bay of Bengal. Kalaikunda will play several roles that include air defence, training and building better co-operation in the region for a possible Nato-like alliance with India playing the pivotal role," an official said.


The Kalaikunda airbase is nestled among forests of Sal in the Maoist badlands of West Midnapore. Set up by the Americans for its Superfortress bombers operating during the Burma campaign, the facility has grown steadily in importance over the years. "A large area falls within the responsibility of this base. There are several bases in the northeast but along the eastern coast, the closest one is in Chennai. It is our job to handle the defences along the coast and the Bay of Bengal region. We play host to several foreign air forces interested in joint exercises with the IAF," the official added.


"This is a very compact base built in classical American style. The Americans used to operate flights from Kalaikunda, Dudhkundi and Salua. Today, we have a radar station at Salua and Dudhkundi has been converted into an air-to-ground firing range. Over the years, Kalaikunda has developed into a major location for international air exercises. Soon, we shall have the Republic of Singapore Air Force visiting Kalaikunda. The base is close to Bay of Bengal where air-to-air firing can take place," says Air Commodore R Radhish, AOC, Air Force Station, Kalaikunda.


But Kalaikunda goes well beyond an exercise hub. Apart from the MiG-27 ground attack aircraft and MiG-21 Fn fighters of the OCU, squadrons of Su-30 MKIs and other advanced varieties from the IAF's fleet call on Kalaikunda on a regular basis. A squadron of Su-30 MKIs is now at the base.



Over the last few years, Delhi has started to realize that China is as great a threat as Pakistan and there has been a rush to upgrade facilities in the eastern and northeastern sector. Fighters from Kalaikunda can fly to the Andamans and beyond for longrange patrols. Unlike older aircraft, the Su-30 MKIs can fly at very slow speeds (nearly that of a helicopter) and carry out surveillance before zooming away at twice the speed of sound.


"In case of some mischief by our northern neighbour, this is the place where our defences can fall back to. Also this base is playing a crucial role in developing regional cooperation. There may come a time when a Nato-like organization develops here with India playing the role of the US. If this happens, our assets would no longer have to be on their toes for 365 days a year. Pilots of the Nato countries have to be on active duty for only 90 days at a stretch," an IAF official said.




Kalaikunda fighters in charge of Andaman and Nicobar Islands defences - The Economic Times
 

Galaxy

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A squadron of Su-30 MKIs is now at the base. ?

when it came ??

2 squadron @ Bareilly, 2 @ Pune, 1 @ Jodhpur, 1 @ chabua and 1 @ Tezpur = Total 7 operational. :confused:
 

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