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Phillpins now want to save their face ,by arresting Vietnamese....heheh
And so it begins - Philippine warship in standoff with China vessels
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LETHALFORCE
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Chinese Are chicken all talk no action.
does not really matter, China is anything you want it to be.
LETHALFORCE
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Chinese portray themselves as the dragon but when it comes to action they are a lizard
Hiding under a rock.
Hiding under a rock.
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Hidden depths in South China Sea tensions
By Roberto Tofani
Disputes over the South China Sea must be conducted and solved peacefully. This sentence summarizes most statements released by government officials after bilateral or multilateral meetings on the issue, but also highlights the absence of a real political will and the continuing unpredictability and instability in the region.
Disputes related to sovereignty about land and jurisdiction over maritime areas show that tensions can only increase in the months ahead; or at least until a new and more binding Code of Conduct (COC) on the South China Sea is agreed upon by China and the 10-member Association of Southeast Asia Nations (ASEAN). Lastly, the claim to be looking for a "peaceful solution", as expressed by the parties, has not prevented a new arms race in the region.
The latest incident this week saw the Philippines' largest warship, the Gregorio Del Pilar engage in an naval standoff with two
Chinese surveillance craft after the latter intervened to prevent the crew of eight Chinese fishing boats being detained alleged illegal fishing in Scarborough Shoal, which lies off the Philippines' northwest coast but which is also claimed by China. As the crisis reached its third day on Thursday, diplomats from both countries were still scrambling to defuse tensions.
As anticipated by some observers, the South China Sea issue was not on the agenda during the ASEAN summit held in Cambodia's capital, Phnom Penh at the beginning of April. The association has a standard operating procedure meant to disguise controversial issues, however, Cambodia's decision as ASEAN chairman not to discuss the issue also reveals China's influence.
Cambodia has remained silent on the issue since it was raised by US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton during the ASEAN Regional Forum in July 2010, and Cambodia and Myanmar were the only two ASEAN members opposed to raising maritime security concerns during the East Asia Summit held last November in Bali in the presence of US President Barack Obama. In recent years, Phnom Penh has accumulated over $8 billion in debts from Chinese loans.
"It appears Cambodia first listed the South China Sea on the formal agenda and then withdrew it. This is likely to be because China expressed strong views. In any event, ASEAN often masks contentious issues by not referring to them directly. It is clear from the final Chair's Statement that the South China Sea was discussed," Emeritus Professor Carlyle A Thayer, from thee University of New South Wales at the Australian Defense Force Academy in Canberra, explained to Asia Times Online.
At the end of the two-day meeting, as reported in a press statement, the 10 leaders "stressed the need to intensify efforts to ensure the effective and full implementation of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties (DOC) based on the guidelines for the implementation of the DOC".
Sovereignty over areas of the South China Sea is contested by China, the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Taiwan and Brunei. Many areas of the South China Sea are believed to be rich in fossil fuels and are important to regional navigation and trade. In the past year, tensions have spiked through incidents at sea, especially between two of the claimants, China and Vietnam.
The two parties reached an agreement last year to solve territorial disputes bilaterally their, and the fact that - as stated also by the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs - no country involved in the dispute claims all of the South China Sea area, seems to bode well for the future.
In February, Hanoi and Beijing set up working groups at department level to work on disputed issues in the South China Sea, activating a telephone hotline between the two foreign ministries at the beginning of March. The new approach could also help clarify what both parties claim in the disputed zone.
In 2009, Vietnam outlined its claims in its submission to the United Nations Commission on the Limits of Continental Shelf. "Vietnam appeared to shift from claiming the waters to claiming those features - islands and rocks - which it occupied. Vietnam hasn't yet claimed which features are islands under international law and therefore entitled to a 200 nautical miles [nm] EEZ and continental shelf, and which features are rocks entitled to a territorial sea of 12 nm," said Thayer.
Hence, problems and unresolved issues still remain because "China has not specified whether it is claiming all the features including those occupied by Vietnam, the Philippines and Malaysia or just the features it occupies", underlines Thayer.
For example, when CNOOC Ltd - China's biggest offshore oil explorer - decided in March to develop the oil- and gas-rich northern areas of the South China Sea, the Vietnamese Foreign Ministry said that this violated Vietnam's sovereignty.
Authorities in Hanoi singled out Block 65/24, which it said sits one nautical mile from one of the Paracel Islands, denouncing a range of Chinese actions that violate its territory. In reply, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Weimin dismissed the allegations and called on Vietnam to respect China's territorial integrity.
Moreover, when a foreign company operates in contested waters, like the Indian ONGC Videsh, Chinese authorities contend that they are plundering Chinese resources. In this particular case, "China's claims to historic rights overlap Vietnam's claimed Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ)-where India's ONGC has a license. If China clarified the basis of its claim, this would help resolve this particular problem," explains Professor Thayer.
The Chinese attempt to win back the trust of ASEAN and claimants countries is therefore undermined by Beijing's lack of transparency and by its assertiveness on the issue. Two of the major causes of a new arms race in the region that lead also to the "proliferation of submarines, anti-ship missiles and C4ISR-command, control, communication and computing, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance-capabilities," as underlined by Thayer.
"Even if Vietnam has been opening up to Western arms suppliers for years, in the last period the requests from the government have been growing very fast, especially for defense systems, for which we are competing with other suppliers," a European supplier confirmed, to ATol on condition of anonymity. "The move that has garnered the most attention, however, was the recent US$1.8 billion order of six diesel-powered Kilo-class submarines from Russia," as underlined by "The Hanoist" in a recent article (See Vietnam builds naval muscle, Asia Times Online, March 29, 2012). But Vietnam is not the only country eager to expand their capabilities, as "the Philippines has made us a lot of requests that I cannot specify," added the European arms merchant.
As ASEAN members are buying weapons, the Chinese submarine fleet is on high alert. According to the US Office of Naval Intelligence - as reported by Asahi Shimbun - five Jin-class nuclear submarines, equipped with JL-2 ballistic missiles that boast a range of more than 8,000 kilometers, are deployed in Sanya, the southernmost city in the People's Republic of China and one of the two prefecture-level cities in Hainan province.
In this context, the risk is a proliferation of nuclear-weapons in the area, despite the diplomatic effort that led the ASEAN members in 1995 to sign the Southeast Asian Nuclear-Weapon-Free Zone Treaty (SEANWFZ), a nuclear weapons moratorium treaty. In November 2011, "the Nuclear Weapons States (China, France, Russia, the United Kingdom, and the United states) and ASEAN agreed to take the necessary steps to enable the signing of the Protocol and its entry into force at the earliest opportunity," but none of the five States actually signed the protocol.
With tensions rising, the possibility of incidents in the one of the fastest-growing commercial maritime areas in the world is also increasing. For years, ASEAN has been unable to work on a diplomatic and peaceful solution to the SCS issue with China, itself concerned with preventing the new US. engagement in the Asia-Pacific region. US diplomacy succeeded in isolating China during the last East Asia Summit by putting maritime security issues on the agenda of the summit and underlining the importance of "freedom of navigation" for commercial purposes.
ASEAN exploited that result to counterbalance China's expansionism. However, some ASEAN members fear that a more significant presence of the US could destabilize the region. Indonesia, for example, fears the presence of US warships in support of Australia. Thailand believes that the rivalry between China and the US would intrude in regional affairs. The military relationship between Washington and Hanoi, too, that for some observers has entered a "new phase", seems to be more symbolic than practical.
At the moment, the only ASEAN member eager to support a new American "pivot strategy" in the region seems to be the Philippines. Not only for historical reasons, but also because Manila cannot rely solely on their own military force, designed to defend their own borders more than face international armies.
Most of all, Beijing does not want any interference in the South China Sea. In an editorial published in the People's Daily online, demands to respect the freedom of navigation and take responsible actions in the South China Sea, made by Lieutenant General Burton Field, the commander of US Forces Japan, were labeled as "not responsible".
"The United States is deliberately blurring the issue of the freedom of navigation and the issue of territorial sovereignty and is deliberately creating a type of public opinion to pave the way for implementing its strategy," as opined by the newspaper of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China.
In this context, diplomacy seems to have taken center stage over South China Sea disputes. With the decision to implement the DOC, authorities in Beijing want to demonstrate that China is not a threat to regional security and to recover the prestige it has lost also due to its assertive behavior. "But China also knows that negotiating with ASEAN states cuts out any role for the United States in facilitating a settlement. It is in China's interest to draw out negotiations with ASEAN in order to play on differences among ASEAN states," added Thayer.
During the 18th ASEAN Regional Forum held in July, Chinese Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi and his ASEAN counterparts signed a document setting out agreed measures to make the Declaration of Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea signed 10 years ago in Phnom Penh more binding.
The ASEAN summit scheduled in Phnom Penh for November could be the last phase for a final COC that the 10 members will submit to China, that "wants a seat at the table to shape the COC in its interests", added Thayer. But a self-imposed deadline for drawing up a COC "may result in a messy compromise and a document without teeth", Thayer concluded.
Asia Times Online :: Hidden depths in South China Sea tensions
By Roberto Tofani
Disputes over the South China Sea must be conducted and solved peacefully. This sentence summarizes most statements released by government officials after bilateral or multilateral meetings on the issue, but also highlights the absence of a real political will and the continuing unpredictability and instability in the region.
Disputes related to sovereignty about land and jurisdiction over maritime areas show that tensions can only increase in the months ahead; or at least until a new and more binding Code of Conduct (COC) on the South China Sea is agreed upon by China and the 10-member Association of Southeast Asia Nations (ASEAN). Lastly, the claim to be looking for a "peaceful solution", as expressed by the parties, has not prevented a new arms race in the region.
The latest incident this week saw the Philippines' largest warship, the Gregorio Del Pilar engage in an naval standoff with two
Chinese surveillance craft after the latter intervened to prevent the crew of eight Chinese fishing boats being detained alleged illegal fishing in Scarborough Shoal, which lies off the Philippines' northwest coast but which is also claimed by China. As the crisis reached its third day on Thursday, diplomats from both countries were still scrambling to defuse tensions.
As anticipated by some observers, the South China Sea issue was not on the agenda during the ASEAN summit held in Cambodia's capital, Phnom Penh at the beginning of April. The association has a standard operating procedure meant to disguise controversial issues, however, Cambodia's decision as ASEAN chairman not to discuss the issue also reveals China's influence.
Cambodia has remained silent on the issue since it was raised by US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton during the ASEAN Regional Forum in July 2010, and Cambodia and Myanmar were the only two ASEAN members opposed to raising maritime security concerns during the East Asia Summit held last November in Bali in the presence of US President Barack Obama. In recent years, Phnom Penh has accumulated over $8 billion in debts from Chinese loans.
"It appears Cambodia first listed the South China Sea on the formal agenda and then withdrew it. This is likely to be because China expressed strong views. In any event, ASEAN often masks contentious issues by not referring to them directly. It is clear from the final Chair's Statement that the South China Sea was discussed," Emeritus Professor Carlyle A Thayer, from thee University of New South Wales at the Australian Defense Force Academy in Canberra, explained to Asia Times Online.
At the end of the two-day meeting, as reported in a press statement, the 10 leaders "stressed the need to intensify efforts to ensure the effective and full implementation of the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties (DOC) based on the guidelines for the implementation of the DOC".
Sovereignty over areas of the South China Sea is contested by China, the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Taiwan and Brunei. Many areas of the South China Sea are believed to be rich in fossil fuels and are important to regional navigation and trade. In the past year, tensions have spiked through incidents at sea, especially between two of the claimants, China and Vietnam.
The two parties reached an agreement last year to solve territorial disputes bilaterally their, and the fact that - as stated also by the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs - no country involved in the dispute claims all of the South China Sea area, seems to bode well for the future.
In February, Hanoi and Beijing set up working groups at department level to work on disputed issues in the South China Sea, activating a telephone hotline between the two foreign ministries at the beginning of March. The new approach could also help clarify what both parties claim in the disputed zone.
In 2009, Vietnam outlined its claims in its submission to the United Nations Commission on the Limits of Continental Shelf. "Vietnam appeared to shift from claiming the waters to claiming those features - islands and rocks - which it occupied. Vietnam hasn't yet claimed which features are islands under international law and therefore entitled to a 200 nautical miles [nm] EEZ and continental shelf, and which features are rocks entitled to a territorial sea of 12 nm," said Thayer.
Hence, problems and unresolved issues still remain because "China has not specified whether it is claiming all the features including those occupied by Vietnam, the Philippines and Malaysia or just the features it occupies", underlines Thayer.
For example, when CNOOC Ltd - China's biggest offshore oil explorer - decided in March to develop the oil- and gas-rich northern areas of the South China Sea, the Vietnamese Foreign Ministry said that this violated Vietnam's sovereignty.
Authorities in Hanoi singled out Block 65/24, which it said sits one nautical mile from one of the Paracel Islands, denouncing a range of Chinese actions that violate its territory. In reply, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Weimin dismissed the allegations and called on Vietnam to respect China's territorial integrity.
Moreover, when a foreign company operates in contested waters, like the Indian ONGC Videsh, Chinese authorities contend that they are plundering Chinese resources. In this particular case, "China's claims to historic rights overlap Vietnam's claimed Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ)-where India's ONGC has a license. If China clarified the basis of its claim, this would help resolve this particular problem," explains Professor Thayer.
The Chinese attempt to win back the trust of ASEAN and claimants countries is therefore undermined by Beijing's lack of transparency and by its assertiveness on the issue. Two of the major causes of a new arms race in the region that lead also to the "proliferation of submarines, anti-ship missiles and C4ISR-command, control, communication and computing, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance-capabilities," as underlined by Thayer.
"Even if Vietnam has been opening up to Western arms suppliers for years, in the last period the requests from the government have been growing very fast, especially for defense systems, for which we are competing with other suppliers," a European supplier confirmed, to ATol on condition of anonymity. "The move that has garnered the most attention, however, was the recent US$1.8 billion order of six diesel-powered Kilo-class submarines from Russia," as underlined by "The Hanoist" in a recent article (See Vietnam builds naval muscle, Asia Times Online, March 29, 2012). But Vietnam is not the only country eager to expand their capabilities, as "the Philippines has made us a lot of requests that I cannot specify," added the European arms merchant.
As ASEAN members are buying weapons, the Chinese submarine fleet is on high alert. According to the US Office of Naval Intelligence - as reported by Asahi Shimbun - five Jin-class nuclear submarines, equipped with JL-2 ballistic missiles that boast a range of more than 8,000 kilometers, are deployed in Sanya, the southernmost city in the People's Republic of China and one of the two prefecture-level cities in Hainan province.
In this context, the risk is a proliferation of nuclear-weapons in the area, despite the diplomatic effort that led the ASEAN members in 1995 to sign the Southeast Asian Nuclear-Weapon-Free Zone Treaty (SEANWFZ), a nuclear weapons moratorium treaty. In November 2011, "the Nuclear Weapons States (China, France, Russia, the United Kingdom, and the United states) and ASEAN agreed to take the necessary steps to enable the signing of the Protocol and its entry into force at the earliest opportunity," but none of the five States actually signed the protocol.
With tensions rising, the possibility of incidents in the one of the fastest-growing commercial maritime areas in the world is also increasing. For years, ASEAN has been unable to work on a diplomatic and peaceful solution to the SCS issue with China, itself concerned with preventing the new US. engagement in the Asia-Pacific region. US diplomacy succeeded in isolating China during the last East Asia Summit by putting maritime security issues on the agenda of the summit and underlining the importance of "freedom of navigation" for commercial purposes.
ASEAN exploited that result to counterbalance China's expansionism. However, some ASEAN members fear that a more significant presence of the US could destabilize the region. Indonesia, for example, fears the presence of US warships in support of Australia. Thailand believes that the rivalry between China and the US would intrude in regional affairs. The military relationship between Washington and Hanoi, too, that for some observers has entered a "new phase", seems to be more symbolic than practical.
At the moment, the only ASEAN member eager to support a new American "pivot strategy" in the region seems to be the Philippines. Not only for historical reasons, but also because Manila cannot rely solely on their own military force, designed to defend their own borders more than face international armies.
Most of all, Beijing does not want any interference in the South China Sea. In an editorial published in the People's Daily online, demands to respect the freedom of navigation and take responsible actions in the South China Sea, made by Lieutenant General Burton Field, the commander of US Forces Japan, were labeled as "not responsible".
"The United States is deliberately blurring the issue of the freedom of navigation and the issue of territorial sovereignty and is deliberately creating a type of public opinion to pave the way for implementing its strategy," as opined by the newspaper of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China.
In this context, diplomacy seems to have taken center stage over South China Sea disputes. With the decision to implement the DOC, authorities in Beijing want to demonstrate that China is not a threat to regional security and to recover the prestige it has lost also due to its assertive behavior. "But China also knows that negotiating with ASEAN states cuts out any role for the United States in facilitating a settlement. It is in China's interest to draw out negotiations with ASEAN in order to play on differences among ASEAN states," added Thayer.
During the 18th ASEAN Regional Forum held in July, Chinese Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi and his ASEAN counterparts signed a document setting out agreed measures to make the Declaration of Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea signed 10 years ago in Phnom Penh more binding.
The ASEAN summit scheduled in Phnom Penh for November could be the last phase for a final COC that the 10 members will submit to China, that "wants a seat at the table to shape the COC in its interests", added Thayer. But a self-imposed deadline for drawing up a COC "may result in a messy compromise and a document without teeth", Thayer concluded.
Asia Times Online :: Hidden depths in South China Sea tensions
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1. that is a "disputed islands" ,acknowledged by most countries, except related ones such as China, Phillpins and Vietnam.
2.since it is a "disputed islands", it is not accepted that the status quo is not allowed to be change unlaterally,before the disputy is solved.
3. Chinese Fishing beside disputed island has existed for thousands of year,so such fishing is obviously " the status quo".
4. Thus, Phillpins's attempt to arrest CHinese fishmen is obviously " a break of the status quo".
5. Unilateral exploration of oil is something new,it is obvioulsy a "break of the status quo".so it should be not allowed.
6.Conclusion: It is Phillpines that is trying to break the "status quo".
nimo_cn
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The two just hold a game to demonstrate their solidarity, they could have put off that show.
Really want to know how is Vietnam going to respond.
What are you talking about "backed off". The stand-off is still ongoing. Who backed down does't matter. What is notable is that the Philippines stood up against the Goliath China. The lesson here is that China cannot claim the whole SCS.. the presence of SEA nations patrolling the seas will always defend it. Let China take it by force and we will see if the chain of reaction of treaties and alliances would come to effect.
Going back to the incident..here are the facts:
1. The fishermen were apprehended not because entirely of tresspassing but because of poaching in massive quantities of endangered species (corals, giant clams, and sharks im sure for the shark's fin). Unfortunately, these fishermen got away and the Chinese goevernment consented that.
2. during the negotiations.. Philippine Foreign Afairs: We will let the fishing boats go but the catch must be confiscated. China ambassador: Chinese fishing vessels would be subject to inspection by their own authorities," he said....and the chinese has robbed the seas again..and sailed away
7. a white Chinese ship – presumably the one that returned – harassed a Philippine-registered vessel with nine French nationals conducting archaeological surveys Conclusion..China is also up to breaking the status quo
http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=797103&publicationSubCategoryId=63
nimo_cn
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Philippines replaced its largest naval warship with a small coast guard vessel, it is very much like a retreat. Of course, the stand off is going on, but as I see it, it is just a matter of time for Philippines to pull out all of its ships.
Many countries stood up against China, what is so notable? China is not an aggressive super power like US, no country should be fearful of China.
The lesson here is that China should do much more to protect its sovereingty over SCS even if it means constant standoffs with countries like Philippine. The stand-off indicates that China will not surrender SCS to Philippine even if it is supported by US.
Another lesson we have learned from this stand off is that ASEAN countries are not commited to solidarity as people think they are, because there is not any good reason for them to gang up to confront China.
In fact, of all the ASEAN countries, only Philippine and Vietnam notably challenged Chinese sovereignty over SCS, other countries may not recognize SCS to be Chinese, but they don't claim SCS either. And more importantly, other ASEAN countries also don't show any support to Philippine and Vietnam, especially to Vietnam which claims the whole SCS and irks many ASEAN countries including Philippine.
China on the other hand maintains quite decent ties with Thailand, Myanmar, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc. China has sold weapons to all of the 4 main ASEAN countries I mentioned.
As much as Indian members like to hype the hostility between China and ASEAN countries to comfort themselves, it is not true.
The fishmen were fishing in Chinese waters, what they are fishing has nothing to do with Philippine, even if they violated the law, they should be handled by Chinese authority accordingly. Philippine has no right to send a naval ship to arrest them in Chinese waters.
This time Philippine had made a very big mistake by giving China enough reasons to retake the control of Huangyan Island and maintain a constant presence in those waters.
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I have merely laid out the facts and made my point. You are free to have your opinions and that will be the same for all readers. I just want to correct you on your statement with another fact, "Philippine has no right to send a naval ship to arrest them in Chinese waters"... Those Chinese fishermen were illegally fishing on PHILIPPINE WATERS!!!
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Indian Ocean is a great treasure of the people of all nations!!!!
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If it did, then it was because Philippine thought China is not worth being confronted with might of a big naval vessel!
China is an aggressive hegemonic power.
That is why it has disputes with all its neighbours!
The fact that the US is around is enough to make China shiver. Starting with the USS George Washington moving into Korean waters to the US naval exercises with Philippines and then with Vietnam.
The majority of ASEAN nations are not ganging up. They are merely demanding their due as per international rules. It is China which is ganging up against all as if she is some neighbourhood bully. That is why the Chinese General left the ASEAN Conference held recently in Kampuchea and then went to Beijing and wrote a note in a huff that all laughed at!
A shopkeeper sells his good, not because he likes the customer or the customer likes him, it is merely need based. China wanted money and so it sold weapons to 4 countries as you claim. Just another neighbourhood kirana shop!
The fishermen were poaching in Philippines waters.
China is making a big mistake thinking that everything around the world is theirs and they are the Middle Kingdom. The fact that they are shooed off everywhere is indicative enough that China is coming down to Mother Earth and their airy fairy fables that they think is history is not cutting ice!
captonjohn
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Friend, bigger doesn't mean always better. In modern warfare that wins who follow first shoot first kill principle. Better electronics, intelligence, equipment, surveillance collectively makes it possible.CHinese vessels are marine surveilance vessels...however,those vessles are even bigger than most navy warships of most 3rd world countries,such as Philippine's ones.
Morever, those mairine surveilance vessels are backed by PLAN...
captonjohn
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Philippines replaced largest warship with small coast guard ships because its more a diplomatic action rather than military act. If china sinks a single vessel it would make whole world's opinion against China. Nobody would ask that sunk vessel was large or small. Philippines did very well in terms of diplomacy and strategy she is keeping her best ships for real war if it comes in future. The ball is in China's court and if china sink a single vessel it would alarm world and china would lose it.
As per international charter each nation who has its borders with sea must have some area of sea as his natural assets. China is denying this fact, actually Philippines and other nations in SCS are the natural owner of definite areas of SCS and nobody can claim that area in any way. China is not the owner of whole SCS and China should not give unpractical reason for it like talking about history. This is not history, this is present as per china's reasoning India should have whole Indus ocean, Britain should have whole Atlantic sea but this doesn't make sense today. Live in present.
Do remember that any action of China against Philippines would be taken seriously by international community including UNSC and this may risk China to get isolated from world so choose your words cautiously.
nimo_cn
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Bro, don't mix SCS with Indian ocean. Indian ocean though being named after Inida, doesn't actually belong to India. SCS is not only named after China, but also belongs to China. Please don't get confused.
If you want to make a better analogy, you should say "India is a public property of the international community".
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nimo_cn
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Multiple-orgasm ?
