MMRCA 2.0: News & Discussions

[Bleh]

We should have really taken the French offer of transferring the entire mirage 2000 line to India when they were switching over to rafale production in the early 2000s . We could have manufactured 200-300 of the upgraded mirage 2000-5 and rafale would not have been even needed so urgently.

Tejas chud jata. Whatever happened has happened.

 

[aditya10r]

We should have really taken the French offer of transferring the entire mirage 2000 line to India when they were switching over to rafale production in the early 2000s . We could have manufactured 200-300 of the upgraded mirage 2000-5 and rafale would not have been even needed so urgently.

Idea is good but not feasible.
Mirage is still a potent jet and still part of french air force.Any such move would have resulted in leak of some sensitive french tech.

We should primarily focus on Tejas and rafales for next 10-15 years.

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[IndianHawk]

We should have really taken the French offer of transferring the entire mirage 2000 line to India when they were switching over to rafale production in the early 2000s . We could have manufactured 200-300 of the upgraded mirage 2000-5 and rafale would not have been even needed so urgently.

It's alright 76 rafale are as potent as 100+ mirage. And we have got 49 upgraded mirage too. So we will still have equivalent to 150 mirage upgrade if we get 36 more rafale which we most probably will.

After all rafale is in a different league with Spectra and meteor which are not available for mirages.

 

[IndianHawk]

Idea is good but not feasible.
Mirage is still a potent jet and still part of french air force.Any such move would have resulted in leak of some sensitive french tech.

We should primarily focus on Tejas and rafales for next 10-15 years.

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Lca mk1a with elta 2052 + derby ER and unified ew suite will trump over mirage in air to air fight.
It only lacks in range and payload. So it will have air to air refuel. And mwf is coming.

Like I said before against Pakistan lca mk1a can take down all there current jets including f16 which don't have aesa so mk1a will see f16 first and shoot first with derby ER outranging aim120c5 (even astra will outrange it). Aesa based ew of mk1a will also triumph f16 s older pesa setup.

Jf17 will fare even poorer with Chinese kit. Porky couldn't afford Italian kit and are now regretting it.

Rest all they have is 50-60 year old mirage3-5 and f7 all good targets for shooting practice.

Porky need to upgrade their f16 with aesa and 120d if they want to have any kind of opposition to complete superiority of IAF. But I doubt USA will release them 120d anytime soon.

 

[ashdoc]

We would have ALREADY got the mirage 2000-5 in considerable numbers and mig 21s would have been retired long time ago. How many rafales are in air force right now ? Not a single. How many tejas mk1a ? Not a single. It would most probably been a mirage 2000-5 that abhinandan would have been flying on feb 27 2019 .

 

[IndianHawk]

We would have ALREADY got the mirage 2000-5 in considerable numbers and mig 21s would have been retired long time ago. How many rafales are in air force right now ? Not a single. How many tejas mk1a ? Not a single. It would most probably been a mirage 2000-5 that abhinandan would have been flying on feb 27 2019 .

Don't think so. Mirage was always a medium range fighter not a replacement for mig21 but for mig27 and jaguars. Mig21 replacement was always Tejas. And we couldn't afford 200 mirages then just as we can't afford 200 rafale now.

What delayed the whole thing is that IAF refused to accept mk1 as mig21 replacement and placing order for 250 mk1 instead it wanted mk2 directly and then compromise on 40 mk1 and 83 mk1a.

IAF has recently decided that it no longer wants mig21 size jets beyond 123mk1a because now ew and long range are more important. Hence it wants mwf class jet to be the new light figher. That's why we are in this mess.

 

[Hydra3]

Hopefully Pakistan will be equally screwed economically if not more due to coronavirus and we will be able to defend ourselves with 36 rafales and S 400 air defense system.

They have given priority to economy ovrr safety of theur own people, we have give priority to human life. Only time willntell who was correct.

 

[Hydra3]

It doesn't have to . J10 can't fly from Tibet with any meaning full load. On top of that they keep crashing with single unreliable al31. And then Chinese radars are no match for Israeli elta2052 . J10 has lost before it even started.

Chinese aesa radar is infact a poorly re engineered israelibradar, glad that it didn't perform well up to tye israeli standard. But the inherint charecter of any aesa radar is its virtually impossible for a fighter to jam another fighter with aesa radar. Its true to any aesa radar fighter including j10, lcamk1a, jf17bk3.
And regarding j10 payaload limitations while operating from tibet your argument holds true. But the tibet is giving the chinese an advantage too to them, non of our aircraft can fly to wards mainland china, we simply dont have that much long ranged aircrafts.
High time to develop a bomber like b2/b1 by drdo.

 

[Hydra3]

We should have really taken the French offer of transferring the entire mirage 2000 line to India when they were switching over to rafale production in the early 2000s . We could have manufactured 200-300 of the upgraded mirage 2000-5 and rafale would not have been even needed so urgently.

Why do you want a second grade fighter to be made in country by paying money to others

 

[Hydra3]

Don't think so. Mirage was always a medium range fighter not a replacement for mig21 but for mig27 and jaguars. Mig21 replacement was always Tejas. And we couldn't afford 200 mirages then just as we can't afford 200 rafale now.

What delayed the whole thing is that IAF refused to accept mk1 as mig21 replacement and placing order for 250 mk1 instead it wanted mk2 directly and then compromise on 40 mk1 and 83 mk1a.

IAF has recently decided that it no longer wants mig21 size jets beyond 123mk1a because now ew and long range are more important. Hence it wants mwf class jet to be the new light figher. That's why we are in this mess.

I feel still they are making the mistake, we should have gone for a single engined fughter eith pw100 engine

 

[IndianHawk]

But the inherint charecter of any aesa radar is its virtually impossible for a fighter to jam another fighter with aesa radar. Its true to any aesa radar fighter including j10, lcamk1a, jf17bk3.

Yup but mk1a will see j10 much before j10 sees it because elta is more capable and rcs of j10 is much much bigger than mk1a. So mk1a will shoot first again derby er is much more effective than Chinese bvr and both derby er and Astra have eccm to jamming themselves.

And regarding j10 payaload limitations while operating from tibet your argument holds true. But the tibet is giving the chinese an advantage too to them, non of our aircraft can fly to wards mainland china, we simply dont have that much long ranged aircrafts.

True that's why we are developing new family of longer range cruise missiles.
Anyway the only realistic scenario of India china war is if Chinese try to invade tawang. Chinese aircraft have to come to us . And even if our jets are limited to Tibet having airsuperiorty over Tibet means Chinese will be on backfoot. Infrastructure in Tibet is still too sparse few precision strikes will reneder entire Chinese army logistics kaput.

High time to develop a bomber like b2/b1 by drdo.

Bombers unless stealthy are much easier to shoot down . Chinese bombers are useless against India same will be the case of Indian bombers against china.
Bombing Chinese cities is fools errand our objective is to cut off tibet supply lines from mainland without which china has no control over Tibet.

 

[IndianHawk]

I feel still they are making the mistake, we should have gone for a single engined fughter eith pw100 engine

With mwf coming no single engine fighter is much better than mwf. F16 /21 can carry a ton more payload in extreme situation that's it. It has no other advantage over mwf. So single engine import makes no sense. Only a fighter much more capable than mwf can be imported that is rafale.

 

[no smoking]

Chinese aesa radar is infact a poorly re engineered israelibradar, glad that it didn't perform well up to tye israeli standard.

Oh, really? Please let us know what aesa radars are used by J10C and J-20. And also please tell how American let their AESA tech sold to Chinese by Israel.

 

[Hydra3]

Oh, really? Please let us know what aesa radars are used by J10C and J-20. And also please tell how American let their AESA tech sold to Chinese by Israel.

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2015/08/23/chinese-radar-strongly-resembles-israeli-product/

 

[asianobserve]

Chinese aesa radar is infact a poorly re engineered israelibradar, glad that it didn't perform well up to tye israeli standard. But the inherint charecter of any aesa radar is its virtually impossible for a fighter to jam another fighter with aesa radar. Its true to any aesa radar fighter including j10, lcamk1a, jf17bk3.
And regarding j10 payaload limitations while operating from tibet your argument holds true. But the tibet is giving the chinese an advantage too to them, non of our aircraft can fly to wards mainland china, we simply dont have that much long ranged aircrafts.
High time to develop a bomber like b2/b1 by drdo.

How did China got access to Israeli radar tech?

 

[no smoking]

Our objective is to cut off tibet supply lines from mainland without which china has no control over Tibet.

In this case, you need send Indian bombers/fighters at least 500km deep into Tibet to cut off those supply lines (some of them thousands km away from India border). Chinese really wish India generals are so stupid. Unfortunately they aren't.

 

[uoftotaku]

How did China got access to Israeli radar tech?

The israeli's sold it to them...quite simple really...you think Chengdu came up with the J-10 by itself? Look at all the new Chinese AAM's...look familiar? Israel has simple strategy..follow the money and power

 

[aditya10r]

The israeli's sold it to them...quite simple really...you think Chengdu came up with the J-10 by itself? Look at all the new Chinese AAM's...look familiar? Israel has simple strategy..follow the money and power

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[IndianHawk]

In this case, you need send Indian bombers/fighters at least 500km deep into Tibet to cut off those supply lines (some of them thousands km away from India border). Chinese really wish India generals are so stupid. Unfortunately they aren't.

No we don't . We just have to take out key bridges and rail lines to cutoff supply lines of pla for a week while we plummate existing troops in Tibet. That will be done by stand off weapons .

Even that will only be done if Chinese are stupid Enough to pick a fight with India now. But as seen in doklam Chinese are wise cowards.lol

 

[IndianHawk]

The israeli's sold it to them...quite simple really...you think Chengdu came up with the J-10 by itself? Look at all the new Chinese AAM's...look familiar? Israel has simple strategy..follow the money and power

Israel sold them lavi design and also python missile initial version. China copied them . Later when Israel was selling them phalcon USA blocked it and india bought it instead. So Chinese radar have no Israeli input and that's one reason they are so shitty another reason is lack of any foreign competition for chinese products so Chinese armed Force have to buy whatever crap Chinese psu produce.

That's why Chinese don't fight anymore. Their own equipment will kill way more Chinese than enemy .lol.