MMRCA 2.0: News & Discussions

[aditya10r]

Are you guys tired of this MMRCA drama?Me too.

_______________________________________________________

But apparently air force is not.

They need to understand that their budget is not going to see a massive boost in next 10-15 years.But we also need to have 45 squadrons to dominate the 2 front war.
The only solution is Rafale+Sukhoi(upgraded) and Tejas and its variants.
Cap Su-30s numbers at 270 and start upgrading them right away(they are already about 20 years old).Get the best radar engine avionics and missiles for it,this is going to remain our bread and butter for next 10+ years.
Rafale although provides us with supposed edge against pakistan and china is really expensive,we cannot afford to have 10 squadrons of Rafale as Air force wants to have in mid term.I said supposedly because i dont see how only 36 will arrest downfall in squadron numbers,do recon missions,bomb enemy territory and fight dogfights while also managing 2 different fronts.Best would be to purchase 36/54 more of this and be done with it.Its too expensive to purchase and maintain.
For Tejas,this is the only thing that can save squadron numbers.Go full afterburner on MK1A and MK2MWF.Order 400+ of this combined and bet big on MWF because it is in the same class as F-16,has the same payload somewhat less range but okay and good TWR and because its an indigenous product so we should be able to integrate whatever system we want on this thing.Plus as this is single engine so operating costs are dirt cheap and it can do shit tonne of sorties a day.

In the aftermath of 27th feb dogfight we should have immediately ordered 10/12 DRDO netra which performed their job exceptionally well but GUBBERMINT just sat on it and hasnt done much.

AMCA is still good 10-15 years away and we should be putting resources into it.It would be a fools gambit to assume that chinese 5th gen jets are joke.Lets be serious about it.

The rate at which chinese and even paki air force's are adding numbers,its only a matter of time before air force loses whatever edge it enjoys.

In 10 years time if things continue the way they are then we will be left with Rusted out MIG-29,Mirage 2000,Older than your parents JAGUAR,uber expensive rafale,outclassed Su-30s and undesired Tejas.While pakis will field 300 or maybe more F-16s and JF-17s and chinese will be able to muster similar or maybe more numbers of fighters against us.

Then there is problem of integration,we must step up on our SFDR missile and ASTRA missile for BVR.METEOR although a ground breaking missile may not be integrated on SU-30s and Tejas so we must have a local industry and capacity to develop equipment.

 

[Maniac@666]

IAF ensuring level-playing field for single, twin engine fighter jets in USD 20 billion deal
In the 114 multirole fighter aircraft project planned to be built indigenously, the Indian Air Force is now working to prepare a level-playing field for single-engine and twin-engine combat aircraft expected to participate in the competition.

Seven fighter aircraft including the F-21 from Lockheed Martin, F-18 and F-15 from Boeing, Gripen from Saab, MiG-35 and Sukhoi-35 from Rosoboronexport and Rafale from Dassault Aviation are the likely participants for the deal, which is likely to cost over USD 20 billion.

"In the competition, there are both single-engine and twin-engine aircraft. We are looking to prepare the qualitative requirement specifications in a way that there is a level-playing field between both the fighters and there can be a fair competition between them," top IAF sources told ANI.


In a competition between twin-engine and single-engine fighter planes, the latter has a cost advantage as there is one engine less required to power the planes but the former gives an edge in terms of safety and performance.

The competition has the F-21 and the Saab Gripen as the single-engine jets while the other five are twin-engine fighter jets.

The Indian Air Force will shortly also be preparing the statement of the case for acquisition and move it to the Defence Acquisition Council for the approval of the tender by the Defence Ministry.

The IAF has plans of acquiring the 114 fighter jets through the strategic partnership route where indigenous firms would partner with the global manufacturers to produce 96 of these planes in India.

The government had acquired 36 Rafale jets in 2016 through an emergency clause to fill the capability gap due to the inability to finalise the 126 multirole fighter aircraft deal with French Dassault Aviation due to complications in tender requirements.

The 36 aircraft would start arriving in the country from May this year in Ambala followed by the Hashimara airbase in West Bengal.
https://www.defencenews.in/article/...ne-fighter-jets-in-USD-20-billion-deal-809687

So that means Eurofighter is not participating.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Are you guys tired of this MMRCA drama?Me too.

_______________________________________________________

But apparently air force is not.

They need to understand that their budget is not going to see a massive boost in next 10-15 years.But we also need to have 45 squadrons to dominate the 2 front war.
The only solution is Rafale+Sukhoi(upgraded) and Tejas and its variants.
Cap Su-30s numbers at 270 and start upgrading them right away(they are already about 20 years old).Get the best radar engine avionics and missiles for it,this is going to remain our bread and butter for next 10+ years.
Rafale although provides us with supposed edge against pakistan and china is really expensive,we cannot afford to have 10 squadrons of Rafale as Air force wants to have in mid term.I said supposedly because i dont see how only 36 will arrest downfall in squadron numbers,do recon missions,bomb enemy territory and fight dogfights while also managing 2 different fronts.Best would be to purchase 36/54 more of this and be done with it.Its too expensive to purchase and maintain.
For Tejas,this is the only thing that can save squadron numbers.Go full afterburner on MK1A and MK2MWF.Order 400+ of this combined and bet big on MWF because it is in the same class as F-16,has the same payload somewhat less range but okay and good TWR and because its an indigenous product so we should be able to integrate whatever system we want on this thing.Plus as this is single engine so operating costs are dirt cheap and it can do shit tonne of sorties a day.

In the aftermath of 27th feb dogfight we should have immediately ordered 10/12 DRDO netra which performed their job exceptionally well but GUBBERMINT just sat on it and hasnt done much.

AMCA is still good 10-15 years away and we should be putting resources into it.It would be a fools gambit to assume that chinese 5th gen jets are joke.Lets be serious about it.

The rate at which chinese and even paki air force's are adding numbers,its only a matter of time before air force loses whatever edge it enjoys.

In 10 years time if things continue the way they are then we will be left with Rusted out MIG-29,Mirage 2000,Older than your parents JAGUAR,uber expensive rafale,outclassed Su-30s and undesired Tejas.While pakis will field 300 or maybe more F-16s and JF-17s and chinese will be able to muster similar or maybe more numbers of fighters against us.

Then there is problem of integration,we must step up on our SFDR missile and ASTRA missile for BVR.METEOR although a ground breaking missile may not be integrated on SU-30s and Tejas so we must have a local industry and capacity to develop equipment.

We are getting old but the drama continues...
True.. Tejas is the Only solution.. now

An Indian aesa radar engine weapon is the key.. to success.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Are you guys tired of this MMRCA drama?Me too.

_______________________________________________________

But apparently air force is not.

They need to understand that their budget is not going to see a massive boost in next 10-15 years.But we also need to have 45 squadrons to dominate the 2 front war.
The only solution is Rafale+Sukhoi(upgraded) and Tejas and its variants.
Cap Su-30s numbers at 270 and start upgrading them right away(they are already about 20 years old).Get the best radar engine avionics and missiles for it,this is going to remain our bread and butter for next 10+ years.
Rafale although provides us with supposed edge against pakistan and china is really expensive,we cannot afford to have 10 squadrons of Rafale as Air force wants to have in mid term.I said supposedly because i dont see how only 36 will arrest downfall in squadron numbers,do recon missions,bomb enemy territory and fight dogfights while also managing 2 different fronts.Best would be to purchase 36/54 more of this and be done with it.Its too expensive to purchase and maintain.
For Tejas,this is the only thing that can save squadron numbers.Go full afterburner on MK1A and MK2MWF.Order 400+ of this combined and bet big on MWF because it is in the same class as F-16,has the same payload somewhat less range but okay and good TWR and because its an indigenous product so we should be able to integrate whatever system we want on this thing.Plus as this is single engine so operating costs are dirt cheap and it can do shit tonne of sorties a day.

In the aftermath of 27th feb dogfight we should have immediately ordered 10/12 DRDO netra which performed their job exceptionally well but GUBBERMINT just sat on it and hasnt done much.

AMCA is still good 10-15 years away and we should be putting resources into it.It would be a fools gambit to assume that chinese 5th gen jets are joke.Lets be serious about it.

The rate at which chinese and even paki air force's are adding numbers,its only a matter of time before air force loses whatever edge it enjoys.

In 10 years time if things continue the way they are then we will be left with Rusted out MIG-29,Mirage 2000,Older than your parents JAGUAR,uber expensive rafale,outclassed Su-30s and undesired Tejas.While pakis will field 300 or maybe more F-16s and JF-17s and chinese will be able to muster similar or maybe more numbers of fighters against us.

Then there is problem of integration,we must step up on our SFDR missile and ASTRA missile for BVR.METEOR although a ground breaking missile may not be integrated on SU-30s and Tejas so we must have a local industry and capacity to develop equipment.

Cannot agree more. Single engine fighter jets are the key, even PLAAF is procuring the J-10 in massive nos. They have 500+ in service and have plans for a total of 1000+ J-10.
Why the IAF keeps on delaying the Tejas Mk1A deal is beyond my capacity, most likely due to lack of kickbacks.
Mk1A is on par with the Jf-17 Blk3 and the J-10C.
Instead of just 83 Mk1A, we need 150-200 of them as everyone knows MWF is quite a few years away.
Tejas is the only way to increase squadron nos.
Rather than bringing down the original deal price, the IAF should have negotiated more Mk1A jets for the price of 62,000 crore.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

NETRA AEW&C are an operational necessity.
Mounting NETRA on C-295 is utter stupidity as C-295 lacks speed and altitude and would be a sitting duck. Not to mention that EMB-145 costs marginally more than the C-295.
Get Embraer out of the blacklist and ordered 15 more EMB-145 for NETRA.
Deal won't cost more than $1.8 billion which is same as that of NASMAS-2.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Cannot agree more. Single engine fighter jets are the key, even PLAAF is procuring the J-10 in massive nos. They have 500+ in service and have plans for a total of 1000+ J-10.
Why the IAF keeps on delaying the Tejas Mk1A deal is beyond my capacity, most likely due to lack of kickbacks.
Mk1A is on par with the Jf-17 Blk3 and the J-10C.
Instead of just 83 Mk1A, we need 150-200 of them as everyone knows MWF is quite a few years away.
Tejas is the only way to increase squadron nos.
Rather than bringing down the original deal price, the IAF should have negotiated more Mk1A jets for the price of 62,000 crore.

Not mk1a there is limited scope for it to be a leading fighter jet in the coming decades. 83+40 are enough numbers. But they should have been inducted by now..

Mk2 is the minimum we should go for in bulk. The current plan to get two hundred of those is commendable but the time period is something which I am worried about.

323 Tejas as planned 16-18

274 Sukhoi 14-15

110-120 Mig 29/Mirage 5-6

Rafale 2-4/5 squadrons are enough.

I do not understand the rationale behind another type it will only eat out Tejas number.. or IAF is creating a buffer for AMCA delay ?

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Not mk1a there is limited scope for it to be a leading fighter jet in the coming decades. 83+40 are enough numbers. But they should have been inducted by now..

Mk2 is the minimum we should go for in bulk. The current plan to get two hundred of those is commendable but the time period is something which I am worried about.

323 Tejas as planned 16-18

274 Sukhoi 14-15

110-120 Mig 29/Mirage 5-6

Rafale 2-4/5 squadrons are enough.

I do not understand the rationale behind another type it will only eat out Tejas number.. or IAF is creating a buffer for AMCA delay ?

I am simply saying that going by the track record, MWF will get delayed by 2-3 years probably due to technological challenges. In the mean time, more Mk1A can be ordered as Mirage 2000 and Mig 29 will have started retiring post 2030.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Not mk1a there is limited scope for it to be a leading fighter jet in the coming decades. 83+40 are enough numbers. But they should have been inducted by now..

Mk2 is the minimum we should go for in bulk. The current plan to get two hundred of those is commendable but the time period is something which I am worried about.

323 Tejas as planned 16-18

274 Sukhoi 14-15

110-120 Mig 29/Mirage 5-6

Rafale 2-4/5 squadrons are enough.

I do not understand the rationale behind another type it will only eat out Tejas number.. or IAF is creating a buffer for AMCA delay ?

We should go for 200 Tejas Mk2/MWF. Single engine jets are and will always remain the backbone of any fighter jet fleet.

 

[Tactical Frog]

GUBBERMINT

Who is this scary Gubbermint
Never mind ... just googled it. Haha, fun word

 

[Flying Dagger]

I am simply saying that going by the track record, MWF will get delayed by 2-3 years probably due to technological challenges. In the mean time, more Mk1A can be ordered as Mirage 2000 and Mig 29 will have started retiring post 2030.

If the delay happen they would have to order more for production line to keep running they have assured it too and every party involves know that.

We should go for 200 Tejas Mk2/MWF. Single engine jets are and will always remain the backbone of any fighter jet fleet.

Sukhoi is our backbone right now..

Not necessarily single engine jet but those with low acquisition and operational cost will be required by us.

Mirage 2k at one point of time or Mig29/35 would have served the same purpose. Unfortunately both order were cut down due to budget constraints or other issue time to time.

If we hadn't bought Rafale Gripen was the next best choice due to cost. But it's politics is complicated. Tejas has to become that now for IAF.

 

[Hydra3]

Cannot agree more. Single engine fighter jets are the key, even PLAAF is procuring the J-10 in massive nos. They have 500+ in service and have plans for a total of 1000+ J-10.
Why the IAF keeps on delaying the Tejas Mk1A deal is beyond my capacity, most likely due to lack of kickbacks.
Mk1A is on par with the Jf-17 Blk3 and the J-10C.
Instead of just 83 Mk1A, we need 150-200 of them as everyone knows MWF is quite a few years away.
Tejas is the only way to increase squadron nos.
Rather than bringing down the original deal price, the IAF should have negotiated more Mk1A jets for the price of 62,000 crore.

I dont think mk1a can compete j10

 

[varun9509]

I dont think mk1a can compete j10

@Hydra3 lives life............................................

 

[Hydra3]

Parliamentary panel raps government for woefully-inadequate ..

Read more at:

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/pa...litary-modernization/articleshow/74618337.cms

 

[WolfPack86]

Mig-35 offered with New AESA Radar and additional features to India

RSK MiG Corporation is offering India it’s Mikoyan MiG-35 fighter jet with a new AESA radar which was unveiled for the first time at MAKS 2019 international air show. Phazotron-NIIR Zhuk-AME AESA radar started test flights on a demo aircraft in early 2019 and currently still going through airborne trials but the production clearance is likely to be secured only by end of 2021 said informed sources close to idrw.org. AESA radar has extended detection range of over 160-180km for a fighter size aircraft which can track 30 and engage 6 targets at the same time. Zhuk-AME has time before failure [TBF] rate of no less than 500-600 hours, which is quite an improvement over legacy Radar which came with the original Mig-29A procured by IAF in the early 80s now upgraded to Mig-29UPG Standard. RSK MiG Corporation also said that new Mig-35 on offer to India will also feature an upgraded electronic warfare system and will be equipped for the first time in any Russian made fighter jet a new automatic control system which will enhance flight safety in adverse weather environments and conditions, which brings it at par with other 4.5++ Generation fighter jets in the competition in India. Mig-35 on offer to India will be vastly superior to what has been ordered by the Russian Federation of the Mig-35 for its air force. IAF is currently negotiating for the purchase of 21 MiG 29UPG with Russia to stop the decline of its fighter jet fleet due to retirement and stuck modernization plan. MiG 29UPG is fitted with N010M Zhuk ME Radar that gives it a detection range up to 120km and can track 10 aerial threats at once and can engage 4 simultaneously. Zhuk-AME AESA is an export variant of Zhuk-AM AESA Radar which was first displayed in 2016. Mig-35 has a superior range and higher weapons carrying capacity than the MiG 29UPG currently in service with the IAF. RSK MiG Corporation feels that with added features Mig-35 has a good chance to win the tender to supply 114 jets for the Indian air force.
https://idrw.org/mig-35-offered-with-new-aesa-radar-and-additional-features-to-india/#more-223828

 

[IndianHawk]

I dont think mk1a can compete j10

It doesn't have to . J10 can't fly from Tibet with any meaning full load. On top of that they keep crashing with single unreliable al31. And then Chinese radars are no match for Israeli elta2052 . J10 has lost before it even started.

 

[IndianHawk]

Now with covid 19 wrecking economy . Mmrca is almost over. Defense budget will have to be minimised for few years and will leave no money for expensive imports.

The only way forward is lca mk1a and mwf otherwise IAF can wait another 5-6 years for budget to recover from this disaster to buy imported jets. Lol.

But it will also wreck economy of sellers so imported jets will get cheaper too. France will be much more amenable now and Russian prices will go dirt cheap as ruble is already on par with rupee and with oil crash Russia is in serious tragedy.

Interesting times ahead.

 

[ashdoc]

Now with covid 19 wrecking economy . Mmrca is almost over. Defense budget will have to be minimised for few years and will leave no money for expensive imports.

The only way forward is lca mk1a and mwf otherwise IAF can wait another 5-6 years for budget to recover from this disaster to buy imported jets. Lol.

But it will also wreck economy of sellers so imported jets will get cheaper too. France will be much more amenable now and Russian prices will go dirt cheap as ruble is already on par with rupee and with oil crash Russia is in serious tragedy.

Interesting times ahead.

Hopefully Pakistan will be equally screwed economically if not more due to coronavirus and we will be able to defend ourselves with 36 rafales and S 400 air defense system.

 

[IndianHawk]

Hopefully Pakistan will be equally screwed economically if not more due to coronavirus and we will be able to defend ourselves with 36 rafales and S 400 air defense system.

Pakistan is even more screwed. They are already in negative with forex and now begging imf for more lone.

BTW lca mk1a would be able to defeat anything in current paf unless porky upgrade their old f16 with aesa and aim120d which will be very very costly.

 

[IndianHawk]

Hopefully Pakistan will be equally screwed economically if not more due to coronavirus and we will be able to defend ourselves with 36 rafales and S 400 air defense system.

BTW 36 more rafale might still come as we have build base infra for them .

 

[ashdoc]

BTW 36 more rafale might still come as we have build base infra for them .

We should have really taken the French offer of transferring the entire mirage 2000 line to India when they were switching over to rafale production in the early 2000s . We could have manufactured 200-300 of the upgraded mirage 2000-5 and rafale would not have been even needed so urgently.