MMRCA 2.0: News & Discussions

[YagamiLight]

After the cancellation of SEF and go ahead given for MK-2. I won't even call it a conspiracy theory. Modi is going the Chanakyan way and hints are overwhelming.

If Rafale deal is any yardstick then surely 15 billion is too small an amount to buy 110 twin-engine jets. And GOI has already given go-ahead for Tejas MK-2 so no question about buying Gripen E. F-16, in any case, is too old to even consider.

So again hints are overwhelming. And Goras also know it. However such is the temptation that none will stop at giving it a try. Given the complexities of any such deal, the time taken to finally inking it won't be less than 5-7 years. By the time MK-2 would be getting close to IOC certification.

So needless to say where this is heading again.

Hail Modi.

Bhakth reaction when:
Modi cancels MRCA deal- hail modi
Modi buys Rafales- hail modi
Modi cancels single engine fighter procurement process- hail modi
Modi starts the same process again with a different name- hail modi

My reaction to all this-

 

[Rahul Singh]

Bhakth reaction when:
Modi cancels MRCA deal- hail modi
Modi buys Rafales- hail modi
Modi cancels single engine fighter procurement process- hail modi
Modi starts the same process again with a different name- hail modi

My reaction to all this-

Actually, that HAIL MODI was for giving sanctions for MK-2 in such a way that supplies of it's foreign made parts remains unaffected. Understanding this is certainly not everyone's cup of tea....

 

[YagamiLight]

Actually, that HAIL MODI was for giving sanctions for MK-2 in such a way that supplies of it's foreign made parts remains unaffected. Understanding this is certainly not everyone's cup of tea....

No dude, you are right. We should all hail modi for being a chankyan playing 10-Dimensional chess where every single move he makes is a super duper awesome ultra real dynamic geopolitical decision of next level

 

[Rahul Singh]

No dude, you are right. We should all hail modi for being a chankyan playing 10-Dimensional chess where every single move he makes is a super duper awesome ultra real dynamic geopolitical decision of next level

Thanks for falling in line.........

 

[Immanuel]

Too slow, too late ... hoping this is just a smoke screen before 2019 elections. Then a quick G2G deal with France can be inked in a matter of months.

Well this blunder has to go through, they won't be able to spin it into a G2G with Dassault. As for 2019, Modi's chances go lower by the day.

 

[lcafanboy]

I know how this is playing out. India already paid for the infrastructure for two Rafale bases. When France makes it's offer it will not have to include the infrastructure price as it has already been paid. The contenders will not have this price advantage and Rafale automatically becomes L1.

Exactly..
Also RFI is tailored for Rafales
Gripen no chance since LCA mk2 is comparable, f-16s 18s 35s uncle Sam won't allow india manufacturing, MIG 35 ugh, eurofighter it's game over since India wants nuclear capable fighters with hardened electronics and gan AESA radar. Finally helping hand for amca for which Indian aerospace MIC is required which DRAL and other Indo French JV vendors will provide for.

 

[Samsung J7]

Exactly..
Also RFI is tailored for Rafales
Gripen no chance since LCA mk2 is comparable, f-16s 18s 35s uncle Sam won't allow india manufacturing, MIG 35 ugh, eurofighter it's game over since India wants nuclear capable fighters with hardened electronics and gan AESA radar. Finally helping hand for amca for which Indian aerospace MIC is required which DRAL and other Indo French JV vendors will provide for.

These are speculation. Rafale is the winner in mrca tender.as per mrca tender they will supply 18 jets rest will be assembled in India. But french refused ToT and cost is also huge. So they r back to sqaure one.
Repeating the same drama is insanity.

 

[YagamiLight]

These are speculation. Rafale is the winner in mrca tender.as per mrca tender they will supply 18 jets rest will be assembled in India. But french refused ToT and cost is also huge. So they r back to sqaure one.
Repeating the same drama is insanity.

You are so wrong. Modi ji is playing 10D chess. By doing exactly the same fucking thing Congress (which didn't work out that time), he is hoping for a different result this time because magic is there and because of his 10 D Chess skills. Also, this 100 jet deals for rafale helps Mk2 LCA because Modi is chankyan and when he signs deal for 100 mrca , it means it helps LCA mk2 due to 10D chess and shit even though it makes no logical sense whatsoever to anyone sane. But who knows, bhakths live in a different plan of existence all together where 10D chess is played and shit and common sense doesn't work there

All hail modi and his brilliance of first cancelling MRCA and then announcing MRCA again after wasting 4 years. Because fuck the needs of the country. 10 chess and chankyan shit is more important. Am I right @Rahul Singh

I haven't visited the Bharat rakshaks forum but I am pretty sure the discussions on this issue there is even more pathetic than what's happening here considering the normal levels of fapping to modi they usually do there

 

[Armand2REP]

These are speculation. Rafale is the winner in mrca tender.as per mrca tender they will supply 18 jets rest will be assembled in India. But french refused ToT and cost is also huge. So they r back to sqaure one.
Repeating the same drama is insanity.

You might like to believe that but according to IAF officials that were present at the Elysee the deal was struck for 72 for IAF and 57 for the IN to give Dassault it's original numbers It was just too much to do all at once with the funding constraints and had to be stretched out over time and two services. India has enough base infrastructure for 72 Rafale, leaving it at 36 is unfinished business. As long as BJP stays in power, it will finish it.

 

[hit&run]

All this could had been avoided if Dassault had complied to the rules and 90 more Rafales would already be on order. But when ego comes in the way of common sense, things go wrong.

I am confused, a post above the blame was on GoI now Dassault.

When our Air Force was making frenetic SOS calls for depleting numbers as Migs were killing our Pilots and Pakistan and China were coming out more stronger and together the pressures was always on us.

It was visible that GoI was carrying the burden to keep friendship with France going on and during his high expectation / under pressure visit to France Modi made G2G deal. Me not good at technical part but watching political side most the time and Geopolitics It made quite a sense that why this decision was made.

One can say France played well at the end as India criminally kept playing with them throughout the deal before. But it is still not good outcome for France either as they ended up with only ~ 1/3 of the order.

 

[hit&run]

Hope this plays for another 10 years and eventually cancelled. By then we will have at least two hundred Tejas and a few AMCA prototypes.

And for 10 years India will keep playing the regional punching bag in the hands of Pakistan and China on every dispute.

 

[Samsung J7]

And for 10 years India will keep playing the regional punching bag in the hands of Pakistan and China on every dispute.

One thing is clear we will not initiate any war in near future. There will be war if Pakistan captures some border peaks. Even then we will try to keep the war within our side of LoC. These expensive jets will retire without firing at enemy

 

[hit&run]

Bar-Bala Pilley are upset that Modi is buying New Jets.

Their tiny Papu brain has gone bonkers, 'how on earth he can first buy 36 and now 100 more'.

One thing is clear we will not initiate any war in near future. There will be war if Pakistan captures some border peaks. Even then we will try to keep the war within our side of LoC. These expensive jets will retire without firing at enemy

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Your understanding of War and Conflicts is atypical to what most of the think tanks, watchers and policy makers think.

 

[Babloo Singh]

I hope these jets become reality before my unborn kid joins college
**I'm yet to find to find a mother for my unborn kid

There is fair chance that your son/daughter will fly one of the first few aircraft home after accepting delivery at vendors factory.... as long as you don't make IAF like wish list for finding "mother of your unborn kid" :biggrin2:

 

[abingdonboy]

Hey all!

I am currently working an article that I hope to get published on the 'MMRCA 2.0' and the only logical outcome and was hoping to have some input from our esteemed members on a few matters.

Is it possible to give an outline of the 6 contenders and their respective strengths/weaknesses purely from a technical perspective and their case/or lack thereof for MMRCA 2.0?

 

[lcafanboy]

These are speculation. Rafale is the winner in mrca tender.as per mrca tender they will supply 18 jets rest will be assembled in India. But french refused ToT and cost is also huge. So they r back to sqaure one.
Repeating the same drama is insanity.

Nope... Had we continued mmrca we would have been buying Rafales f2 plus would have been paying f3+ india specific changes cost at higher price.

While now we got f3 at lower cost and paid for india specific changes. We might buy 18 or 36 follow on from France after that Rafales f4 will come from DRAL plant. This will also save money required for upgrade of original mmrca contract as India would have been stuck with f2 model of mmrca.

Rafales F4 as per my knowledge will be bigger with more powerful engines and stealthier and will come after 2025.

Rafales f3 are better than current pakfa and F4 version will be better than FGFA in many ways. That's the reason we're going slow on pakfa, also Putin is playing games with India. So this is way better.

 

[Khalsa_Panth]

I am confused, a post above the blame was on GoI now Dassault.

When our Air Force was making frenetic SOS calls for depleting numbers as Migs were killing our Pilots and Pakistan and China were coming out more stronger and together the pressures was always on us.

It was visible that GoI was carrying the burden to keep friendship with France going on and during his high expectation / under pressure visit to France Modi made G2G deal. Me not good at technical part but watching political side most the time and Geopolitics It made quite a sense that why this decision was made.

One can say France played well at the end as India criminally kept playing with them throughout the deal before. But it is still not good outcome for France either as they ended up with only ~ 1/3 of the order.

Hmm may be by constantly announcing new equipment procurement IAF keeps adversity on edge?

 

[Mikesingh]

I don't know why people are reacting this way.

The requirement is always there and Tejas can not replace this class of Multirole jet.
(I am all for Tejas, actually love this jet and for sure know it will surprise the enemy).

The dire need today is to build up a fleet of 42 squadrons. However, considering the production capacity of HAL, they can produce only 8 Tejas aircraft per year presently. This would probably be ramped up to one squadron of 18 aircraft per year by 2020. And that's just not good enough.

It is therefore imperative that sufficient number of aircraft are imported and then manufactured in India after TOT in the private sector - like TATA Boeing that is already producing fuselages for the Apache Helis for air forces around the world.

 

[lcafanboy]

The dire need today is to build up a fleet of 42 squadrons. However, considering the production capacity of HAL, they can produce only 8 Tejas aircraft per year presently. This would probably be ramped up to one squadron of 18 aircraft per year by 2020. And that's just not good enough.

It is therefore imperative that sufficient number of aircraft are imported and then manufactured in India after TOT in the private sector - like TATA Boeing that is already producing fuselages for the Apache Helis for air forces around the world.

We are not in dire situation. In fact we're much stronger than before with 6 sqdns of mirages/mig29 upgraded and 15 sqdns of su30mki 2 sqdns lca hopefully all 36 rafales will be delivered by 2021. Add up all it comes to more than 450 4.5gen fighters all multirole with Rafales being stealthier than j-20. Also add 4-5 sqdns of upgraded jaguars too. LCA production will be 12 this year and 18 in 2019-20 so all 40 delivered by 2020 end. There will be follow on order for Rafales too from France 18 definitely maybe 36.

Earlier fighters were single role so different fighters were needed for different roles. Mig21 were in bulk for interception which can now be taken care of by SAMs like Akash 1&2, spyder, Barak, etc so fewer sqdns are required. This trend is now world wide with all modern airforces barring China as they know quality of their fighters.

 

[Rahul Singh]

All hail modi and his brilliance of first cancelling MRCA and then announcing MRCA again after wasting 4 years. Because fuck the needs of the country. 10 chess and chankyan shit is more important. Am I right @Rahul Singh

Between announcements and cancellations, the Tejas projects is moving at accelerated pace. Then there is a possibility of getting a 100 Kn Kaveri engine among a host of other things which was secured with the purchase of just 36 Rafale.

Sanctions for both MK-1A and MK-2 has been given in last 4 years.

Considering that the only way defence preparedness of the armed forces can be maintained is through indigenous. He definitely playing smart by going full throttle on indigenous products and very careful with purchasing imported assets. Thereby not only saving money for developments of such products but also securing required foreign technologies to keep it unhindered.

Yeah so all hail to him.