MMRCA 2.0: News & Discussions

[suny6611]

I want atleast 200 Tejas mk 1a ordered by Indian Air Force.

& when will they be delivered ?

 

[WolfPack86]

& when will they be delivered ?

I hope very soon they will deliver.

 

[Sancho]

Keep Crying....

That's the best part in proving trolls like you to be wrong, they keep desperately asking for your attention.

 

[Sancho]

Nothing to do with india & they will never get order for UAV as india recently build indigenous Rustom 2.

Shows how limited your understanding is. We are dependent on ADA, HAL, NAL, in the aviation industry, because there is far too little private investments in the field. So any privat company that comes like Mahindra or now Adani, is progress for Indias future in this field!

 

[Prashant12]

That's the best part in proving trolls like you to be wrong, they keep desperately asking for your attention.

Troll like you believe Import under Make in India is more important then indigenous Made in India. eg LCA MK1 / MK 2.

 

[Prashant12]

Shows how limited your understanding is. We are dependent on ADA, HAL, NAL, in the aviation industry, because there is far too little private investments in the field. So any privat company that comes like Mahindra or now Adani, is progress for Indias future in this field!

Any private company ?
What about reliance private company ?
Why was congress complaining about involvement of reliance as offset partner ?
How different is reliance from adani group ?

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Fact:
But india won't buying any uavs from this adani group.
India recently removed adani group from manufacturing Ak103 deal. So dependent on OFB.

 

[Prashant12]

Washington lets Delhi know: Buy our F-16s, can give Russia deal waiver



With India signing a pact with Russia to purchase the S-400 missile defence system, Washington has informally conveyed to Delhi that it could avoid sanctions under the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA) if India were to give an assurance that it would buy the F-16 fighter aircraft from the United States. Not keen on buying an aircraft already in service with Pakistan, India has refused to give any such assurance till date. The fallout of the Trump administration’s reaction to the S-400 deal featured in the wide-ranging discussion between Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman and US counterpart James Mattis in Singapore on Friday, but sources told The Indian Express that the offer of a CAATSA waiver in exchange for buying F-16 fighter jets was made earlier this month. Sitharaman and Mattis met on the sidelines of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations Defence Ministers’ Meeting Plus (ADMM Plus).

Sitharaman is also scheduled to make her first bilateral visit to the US as Defence Minister in mid-December but it is not clear if Mattis would still be a part of the Trump administration then. Mattis has been a vocal supporter of a CAATSA waiver for India, forcefully arguing for a waiver before the US Congress. But the three-step waiver process is to be decided by President Trump, who said last week that India “is going to find out” the answer “sooner than you think”. US State Department officials have said that “There are no blanket waivers that will be issued for any one country”, and any waiver under CAATSA “would require, among other things, countries to significantly reduce their reliance on Russian arms”. Sanctions under CAATSA would be triggered once Delhi makes a payment for the Russian equipment. India likely to make a part payment of the $4.5-billion deal with Russia this financial year.

US officials told The Indian Express that there is “support on both sides of the aisle” for “strong action against Russia”, and President Trump will need a good deal with India for granting a CAATSA waiver. Although US has offered both F-16 and F-18 fighter aircraft to India, it will be easier in Washington to make a case for moving the F-16 production line to India.

Although US officials argue that the F-16 being offered to India is F-16 Block 70, far superior to Block 50/52 in Pakistan’s inventory, Delhi is not keen on buying a fighter aircraft which has been with Pakistan Air Force for nearly three decades. Besides ‘political’ reasons, Delhi also argues that F-16 would not be compatible with its indigenous Brahmos missiles.

The Indian Air Force has issued an RFI (request for information) for buying 114 fighter aircraft (single/double engine) under a competitive bidding process, which could feature F-16 and F-18. But that open competition will not include any assurance to Washington from Delhi about buying an American aircraft.

A specifically enacted legislation, CAATSA’s “ultimate goal”, in the words of a senior State Department official, “is to prevent revenue from flowing to the Russian Government.” It was enacted to punish Russia by sanctioning persons engaging in business transactions with the Russian defence sector. CAATSA provides President Trump two mechanisms to issue a waiver for India — Section 236(b) of CAATSA (“Waiver of Sanctions that are Imposed”) or Section 231(d) (“Modified Waiver Authority for Certain Sanctionable Transactions under Section 231 of CAATSA”).

It requires the President to certify that India: (i) is taking or will take steps to reduce its inventory of major defence equipment and advanced conventional weapons produced by the defence sector of the Russian Federation as a share of its total inventory of major defence equipment and advanced conventional weapons over a specified period; or (ii) is cooperating with the United States Government on other security matters that are critical to United States strategic interests.


https://indianexpress.com/article/i...ur-f-16s-can-give-russia-deal-waiver-5409894/

 

[Sancho]

Troll like you believe Import under Make in India is more important then indigenous Made in India. eg LCA MK1 / MK 2.

=>
https://defenceforumindia.com/forum...nt-of-jets-for-iaf.80924/page-12#post-1456418

Lol, so you are calling the Air Chief a troll? Anybody with even a little common sense and understanding of the matter knows that, that the defence of the country knows more than low end LCAs.

Any private company ?
What about reliance private company ?

If you had read the article, you would have seen the difference, because Adani officials make an obvious swipe on Reliance:

“This is not part of any offsets and is not dependent on any Indian order. We are proving our capability to be a part of the global supply chain. A capability that is not just India specific but one that is globally competitive,” Rajvanshi says.

Reliance didn't even paid for the facilities to do the offset work for Rafale while companies like Mahindra Adani now, Kalyani in the howitzer field, TATA for IFV and howitzer, L&T in the naval field, user their own money to invest in gaining know how and experience. That is Indias future and that can be an alternative, or support to PSUs.

 

[Sancho]

Washington lets Delhi know: Buy our F-16s, can give Russia deal waiver

As expected, another political deal in the making. One can only hope, that GoI will do the smart thing and negotiate the naval tender as a political deal and rules out the F16.

 

[WolfPack86]

I expected this to happen we should not buy F-16. F-18 advanced super hornet is much better.

 

[Prashant12]

=>
https://defenceforumindia.com/forum...nt-of-jets-for-iaf.80924/page-12#post-1456418

Lol, so you are calling the Air Chief a troll? Anybody with even a little common sense and understanding of the matter knows that, that the defence of the country knows more than low end LCAs.

No. I am calling you troll. Air Chief has given commitement of 324 Tejas Jets. MK2 version will simpler to Gripen E Standard.

If you had read the article, you would have seen the difference, because Adani officials make an obvious swipe on Reliance:

Excuses. Reliance is no different then adani beacuse both have debt.

Reliance didn't even paid for the facilities to do the offset work for Rafale while companies like Mahindra Adani now, Kalyani in the howitzer field, TATA for IFV and howitzer, L&T in the naval field, user their own money to invest in gaining know how and experience. That is Indias future and that can be an alternative, or support to PSUs

Mahindra got offset contract from C17 deal just like Reliance in 36 jet deal.
Tata doing partnership with DRDO.

But Adani is company which has taken bank loans & have huge debt. So charge of
crony capitalism applies just like Reliance. Rules are same for all.

 

[Prashant12]

As expected, another political deal in the making. One can only hope, that GoI will do the smart thing and negotiate the naval tender as a political deal and rules out the F16.

Which political deal ?

Its competitive bidding just like mmrca 1.0, So only the best two or three will shortlisted.
No chance of F16/ F18.

Naval tender is also competitive bidding between F18 & Rafale. But integration of Brahmos missiles on F18 will be big problem since its primary anti ship/land missile for the navy so Rafale has the adavantage over F18. In addition there is no commitment on TOT of F18.

 

[binayak95]

Which political deal ?

Its competitive bidding just like mmrca 1.0, So only the best two or three will shortlisted.
No chance of F16/ F18.

Naval tender is also competitive bidding between F18 & Rafale. But integration of Brahmos missiles on F18 will be big problem since its primary anti ship/land missile for the navy so Rafale has the adavantage over F18. In addition there is no commitment on TOT of F18.

Rafale Ms eliminate need for Brahmos-NG since they come with SCALP missiles.

 

[Prashant12]

Rafale Ms eliminate need for Brahmos-NG since they come with SCALP missiles.

SCALP is subsonic missile where brahmos is supersonic & in future hypersonic. Also Brahmos is now fully indigenized whereas SCALP being imported at expensive cost.

Indigenous air launched subsonic nirbhay missile is under development which is similar to SCALP. So there is no need import anymore SCALP missiles.

 

[Defenceanalyst91]

HAL faces grim scenario as it has no new orders

https://www.thehindu.com/todays-pap...o-as-it-has-no-new-orders/article25267653.ece

These guys want to continue their screwdriver jobs

 

[binayak95]

SCALP is subsonic missile where brahmos is supersonic & in future hypersonic. Also Brahmos is now fully indigenized whereas SCALP being imported at expensive cost.

Indigenous air launched subsonic nirbhay missile is under development which is similar to SCALP. So there is no need import anymore SCALP missiles.

Hey Prabhu. I am not saying ki dont go for Brahmos NG - I am saying ki there wont be any gap in capability since SCALp will be there... And for all its subsonic speeds, it has far lower RCS and is a smarter missile.

 

[Prashant12]

Hey Prabhu. I am not saying ki dont go for Brahmos NG - I am saying ki there wont be any gap in capability since SCALp will be there... And for all its subsonic speeds, it has far lower RCS and is a smarter missile.

But we have acquired limited number of SCALP missiles due to high cost.

 

[Bhurki]

But we have acquired limited number of SCALP missiles due to high cost.

Aren't brahmos and scalp priced the same?(~$ 3 mil)
Also where as brahmos is short ranged ( 300-500km) ... Scalp has a range of more than 1000 km..
Scalp also carries a warhead of 400 kg which is twice the capacity of brahmos at 200 kg.

 

[Prashant12]

Aren't brahmos and scalp priced the same?(~$ 3 mil)
Also where as brahmos is short ranged ( 300-500km) ... Scalp has a range of more than 1000 km..
Scalp also carries a warhead of 400 kg which is twice the capacity of brahmos at 200 kg.

Range of Brahmos being increased after india's membership to MTCR.
Brahmos is now fully indigenized with local manufacturing, India also developing air launched nirbhay missile with range 1000-1500 which is more than Scalp that is imported with no manufacturing.

 

[Bhurki]

Range of Brahmos being increased after india's membership to MTCR.
Brahmos is now fully indigenized with local manufacturing, India also developing air launched nirbhay missile with range 1000-1500 which is more than Scalp that is imported with no manufacturing.

Stop sidetracking... You were pointing out price as an inhibitive issue... When it certainly isnt so... Any weapon including cutting edge tech manufactured in india is bound to be more expensive than weapons/platforms produced in other countries.. Eg. Su Mki ..
Even after paying a premium over average prices on a certain kind of weapon for indigenization ... If the forces get platform/weapon that underperform, then it'll be worthwhile to buy more weapons from established OEM ... All the chest thumping from indigenized products may go to waste if our forces can't deploy these weapons for their required missions with acceptable success rate..