MMRCA 2.0: News & Discussions

[Sancho]

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[Aaj ka hero]

1. Su 35 => heavy class => therefore will be rejected by IAF

2. Su 30 MKI based on original Su 35/Su 27M

3. Upgraded MKI as good, if not superior to Su 35

I say let's see what they have NEW to offer.

 

[Aaj ka hero]

I support for two engines. Let's be honest two engines give more security, more range although more consumption also and can carry more loads.
let's face it OUR PLANE MUST BE THE ONE THAT CAN KILL THEIR THREE OR FOUR.
Two front war is not AN IMAGINATION it is given to us in different ways by these two SCUM NATIONS.

 

[Prashant12]

Lol fact checking by ignoring the first paragraph?

That was after this:

Charges of corruption in the news reports could not be validated during a subsequent CBI inquiry, leading it to file a closure case in 2014.

This took more 13 years for removal from blacklisting. Anyway fact remains Leonardo is blacklisted and you can change the fact.

Uttam is not under consideration for MK1A, since it's only under development so far. It will be an option only for future upgrades of IOC/FOC LCAs

Uttam radar is currently integrated for airborne testing. If Uttam is not under consideration for MK1A then israeli radar which already emerged as L1. So saab is already out of competition.

Israeli super radars set to give desi LCA fighter jet enhanced combat capability
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ed-combat-capability/articleshow/64111919.cms

As IAF constantly confirms, LCA is not as capable as MMRCAs and it needs high tech fighters on top of it, Air Chief Dhanoa even confirmed that SE MMRCAs have priority for IAF, so there is no relation between LCA and MMRCAs, IAF needs both.

IAF said LCA mk1 is not as capable as MMRCAs and it needs new fighters till Mark 2 Tejas enters production. There is no SE MMRCA Project but 110 fighter project which includes twin engine fighters as well.

 

[patriots]

better we should go ...wiyh.amca td... prototype s....which will be there .....in 2020....to 2025 ........will be a non stealthy ....cost. effective solution.......

 

[Sancho]

I say let's see what they have NEW to offer.

Nothing that an upgraded MKI would get anyway. In fact, if the MKI gets AESA, it will be technically superior to the Su 35, but the fact remains that IAF don't want additional heavy class fighters anymore.

 

[Sancho]

That was after this:

Again 1st paragraph! You just tried to avoid the facts.

israeli radar which already emerged as L1. So saab is already out of competition

There is no official source confirming the winner of the radar tender so far and I hope that the EL 2052 wins, for cost reasons. But the point was, that Saab had offered an independent radar, not the Selex one and that the same logically applies to their Gripen E proposal.

IAF said LCA mk1 is not as capable as MMRCAs and it needs new fighters till Mark 2 Tejas enters production.

Wrong, IAF said it needs advanced tech fighters above medium tech LCA, to counter advanced enemy fighters and counter a 2 front war situation.

 

[Prashant12]

Again 1st paragraph! You just tried to avoid the facts.

You keep living in denial about denel fact remains it took 13 years for removal from blacklisting and this was done when no evidence was found.
Leonardo remains Blacklisted and there is evidence of corruption.

But the point was, that Saab had offered an independent radar, not the Selex one and that the same logically applies to their Gripen E proposal.

Saab radar is under development just like india's uttam radar, there Gripen E comes with Selex radar.
Also Saab has tied with adani group which is non starter for govt.

Wrong, IAF said it needs advanced tech fighters above medium tech LCA, to counter advanced enemy fighters and counter a 2 front war situation.

Wrong, IAF said 110 fighters fill up squardon numbers till Mark Tejas 2 enters production.

 

[Sancho]

Wrong, IAF said 110 fighters fill up squardon numbers till Mark Tejas 2 enters production.

"We do not have the numbers, against a sanctioned strength of 42 squadrons, we are down to 31. Even when we do have 42 squadrons, we will be below the combined numbers of two of our regional adversaries," he said at a seminar on Air Force structure in Delhi.

"The high-tech fighters like Rafale are needed because medium-tech fighters like Tejas alone cannot do.

https://m.economictimes.com/news/de...-air-force-chief/amp_articleshow/65778737.cms

 

[Prashant12]

https://m.economictimes.com/news/de...-air-force-chief/amp_articleshow/65778737.cms

True. The present tejas is light class, but Tejas mark 2 will be medium class fighter thats why IAF has show commitment for 201 fighters. But production will start only after 2026. So till then IAF will acquire 110 cost effective aircraft.


Post upgradation Tejas’ Mark-2 to become a medium weight fighter
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...edium-weight-fighter/articleshow/64214939.cms

Tejas Mark 2 with maximum takeoff 17.5 ton will be same category as that of Gripen E/F16.

 

[Sancho]

True. The present tejas is light class, but Tejas mark 2 will be medium class fighter

Try to understand the difference between medium weight and medium tech and you will see what the problem is that IAF points to. Just as being in the same weight class, doesn't mean as capable. Each of the 6 MMRCA contenders, have different capabilities in terms of techs, weapons, loads, or flight performance.

 

[arya]

Su 35 is the best option for IAF + either Saab or F16 will be good for IAF

Got should go for 4 sq each & rest fighter planes should be 5.5 gen planes.

We have to beat china , we need 5 & 5.5 gen planes not medium 4 gen planes , we should induct few number of 4.5 gen planes to keep our number up

 

[arya]

True. The present tejas is light class, but Tejas mark 2 will be medium class fighter thats why IAF has show commitment for 201 fighters. But production will start only after 2026. So till then IAF will acquire 110 cost effective aircraft.


Post upgradation Tejas’ Mark-2 to become a medium weight fighter
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...edium-weight-fighter/articleshow/64214939.cms

Tejas Mark 2 with maximum takeoff 17.5 ton will be same category as that of Gripen E/F16.

sir national security is not for experiment. IAF need fighter planes so that we can give some fight to china .

 

[Adioz]

We have to beat china , we need 5 & 5.5 gen planes not medium 4 gen planes , we should induct few number of 4.5 gen planes to keep our number up

sir national security is not for experiment. IAF need fighter planes so that we can give some fight to china .

Believe me you, we can give more than just "some" fight to China, with the assets we have today. We might even be able to give it a bloody nose.
PLAAF has never in its history participated in an actual war. IAF meanwhile has had a very rich experience planning and executing massive air campaigns. And PLAAF lack the geographic advantage that IAF possesses in Eastern sector.
Sortie numbers that IAF can get out of their fighters is also much more than PLAAF can get out of the same number of fighters. IAF has proven as much during Exercise Gagan Shakti 2018. Hence higher availability, smaller geographical area to protect and significantly lower take-off altitudes of IAF fighters can offset the numerical superiority that the Chinese have.

 

[arya]

Believe me you, we can give more than just "some" fight to China, with the assets we have today. We might even be able to give it a bloody nose.
PLAAF has never in its history participated in an actual war. IAF meanwhile has had a very rich experience planning and executing massive air campaigns. And PLAAF lack the geographic advantage that IAF possesses in Eastern sector.
Sortie numbers that IAF can get out of their fighters is also much more than PLAAF can get out of the same number of fighters. IAF has proven as much during Exercise Gagan Shakti 2018. Hence higher availability, smaller geographical area to protect and significantly lower take-off altitudes of IAF fighters can offset the numerical superiority that the Chinese have.

you are talking same line as nehru was talking before 1962& u saw result we were half prepared.

do i need to tell you how china is working on ground while we still bust in bloody politics.

China is our future enemy we have to keep our number increase . i know our power but i dont want to live in dream . cant u see how IAF vice chief & army saying they need major weapons

 

[Adioz]

you are talking same line as nehru was talking before 1962& u saw result we were half prepared.

do i need to tell you how china is working on ground while we still bust in bloody politics.

China is our future enemy we have to keep our number increase . i know our power but i dont want to live in dream . cant u see how IAF vice chief & army saying they need major weapons

Nice try. Now instead of hyperbole, try countering the factual points I made with factual points.

 

[Prashant12]

Try to understand the difference between medium weight and medium tech and you will see what the problem is that IAF points to. Just as being in the same weight class, doesn't mean as capable. Each of the 6 MMRCA contenders, have different capabilities in terms of techs, weapons, loads, or flight performance.

Try to understand IAF is acquiring 201 Tejas MK2 because of improved tech, weapon payloads & flight performance.

Each of the 6 MMRCA contenders, have different capabilities in terms of techs, weapons, loads, or flight performance

Including Gripen NG ?

 

[Sancho]

Try to understand IAF is acquiring 201 Tejas MK2 because of improved tech, weapon payloads & flight performance.

Lol not even close, MK2 replaces the orders initially planned for FGFA, to replace Mig 27, 29 and some Jags. So the cancellation of FGFA opened a replacement gap around 2025 and we only have LCA production line so far, that cam fill that gap.
Secondly, I suggest to check Air Chief Dhanoas recent preas conference, where he confirmed that IAF plans to have a total of 12 squads and 231 LCAs, including 40 IOC/FOC and 83 MK1A (6 squads) => 108 MK2s.

 

[Sancho]

Hence higher availability, smaller geographical area to protect and significantly lower take-off altitudes of IAF fighters can offset the numerical superiority that the Chinese have.

The altitude argument is often given to show, that their fighters can't take off with heavier loads, but it ignores the fact that they don't have to do it in the first place!
PLAAF has dedicated bombers and long range cruise missiles, which contrary to their air bases along the borders, will be used in the first wave of attacks against us, as it would be the case for any modern air conflict of western nations.

That leaves PLAAF fighters with CAS, SEAD and air defence / air superiority, all with lighter loads and if you follow their exercises in Tibet, or reports from their air bases there, all already visible.

PLAAF also has the clear technological advantage today, which also can be openly seen, by the deployments on their air bases! Modern medium and heavy fighters, MALE and HALE drones, AWACS and Sigint aircrafts, up to the latest stealth fighters. We already know, that they have stealth drones and soon will have stealth bombers too, while we cancelled FGFA and pray for AMCA around 2030.

Also Gagan Shakti showed that IAF is "practically" able to divert fighters or aircrafts to all areas, but that's only possible, if the defence scenario along at least 1 border area is so low, that assets can be freed!
That means, unless we have defeated or credibly reduced PAF, we can't divert aircrafts to the east against PLAAF, or the other way around.

Similarly, if IAF has to maintain air operations along eastern and western borders, there is no way that they will divert 1 of just 6 tankers to the IOR, to refuel an MKI. That's the difference between an exercise in peace times and operational necessity in war times. That's why IAF is constantly asking for more fighters, tankers and AWACS, to cover 2 front lines at all time.

The threat perception simply has changed, from inferior Pak centric, to superior China, with the risk of a simultaneous 2 front war and we need far more and far more capable assets to counter this threat.

 

[Jackd]

I heard that IAF (Chief said) will be buying a total of 200 Tejas (all variants) and not 200 Mk2 as previously said.