America and its response to genocides

[Damian]

You guys here seems to misunderstand some thing, how a nation or state can promote genocide? Even if administration that was ruling back then did that this don't mean that US did that, or Germany under Hitler rule did that, it was not promoted by state or nation but only few individuals, thats all.

So saying that country X or country Y promotes genocide is nothing more as just openly saying hate frustration to some nation or state.

So maybe You should think twice before saying something, and if You have some issues to someone, so have it to rulling president back then and his administration.

 

[tarunraju]

You guys here seems to misunderstand some thing, how a nation or state can promote genocide? Even if administration that was ruling back then did that this don't mean that US did that, or Germany under Hitler rule did that, it was not promoted by state or nation but only few individuals, thats all.

So saying that country X or country Y promotes genocide is nothing more as just openly saying hate frustration to some nation or state.

So maybe You should think twice before saying something, and if You have some issues to someone, so have it to rulling president back then and his administration.

To put it simply, US promoted genocide in Bangladesh by posturing against the force that was trying to put a stop to the genocide (India).

Eventually, Soviet posturing neutralized US in the theatre, and India went on to put a stop to the atrocities, but the precious time wasted in neutralizing the threat of a US intervention cost the lives of countless people of Bangladesh.

 

[JayATL]

Its a sign of you losing the debate.

If the US really wanted to protect West Pakistan then it would go towards the Karachi port and not towards the East Pakistan. The aim of 7th fleet task force was to remove the naval blockade of Indian Navy on the East Pakistan side and help the Pakistani Army.

I dont lose the debate < i just chose not to repeat myself over and over again.

whats your name
Jay

whats your name
Jay

whats your name
Jay

whats your name

( forget about it and walk away)

Whether Nixon's plans were to bomb "bastard" Indians or not, the fact is, the USS Kittyhawk showed up on India's doorstep with specifically that threat.

Threat Yes, but thats not the premise is it. It was absolute

1. US was to Nuke India perhaps
2. Us was going attack India
3. US promoted genocide

All freakishly stupid assumptions.

 

[Damian]

To put it simply, US promoted genocide in Bangladesh by posturing against the force that was trying to put a stop to it (India).

Eventually, Soviet posturing neutralized US in the theatre, and India went on to put a stop to the atrocities, but the time wasted in neutralizing the threat of a US intervention cost the lives of countless people of Bangladesh.

This is not promotion by a nation or state, it can be promotion only by individuals, the goverment, but goverment do not represent the view of the whole nation and state, do You understand?

I know that hate to US is very popular, same as hate to Russia etc. But this only prooves that people who think this way are not adult. Sorry this is how it looks like.

 

[JayATL]

It's interesting that nobody cited the Blood Telegram from Dhaka (look it up) to nail anyone who doubts that the US blatantly promoted rape as weapon of war and genocide in 1971.

That telegram shows US being open to its failings not promotion of genocide. I'd like to see one where Indian state dept went WTF are we doing supplying arms to Sri lankans to push a genocide on Tamils!

 

[SHASH2K2]

This is not promotion by a nation or state, it can be promotion only by individuals, the goverment, but goverment do not represent the view of the whole nation and state, do You understand?

I know that hate to US is very popular, same as hate to Russia etc. But this only prooves that people who think this way are not adult. Sorry this is how it looks like.

President is an individual. he is representative of people of a country and is elected by people. whatever he does is for the prople and on their behalf. how can a country run away from misdeeds of a president by disowning him as an action of individual .

 

[nrj]

This is not promotion by a nation or state, it can be promotion only by individuals, the goverment, but goverment do not represent the view of the whole nation and state, do You understand?

I know that hate to US is very popular, same as hate to Russia etc. But this only prooves that people who think this way are not adult. Sorry this is how it looks like.

Agreed. But Govt & its appointed individuals represent the nation as whole. There is no denying fact about the picture that Govt paints for its nation or its citizens.

While saying so, let me also reject anyone who says that entire population of certain country promoted genocide or opposed actions preventing it. But I don't think anyone here has said so.

 

[Damian]

President is an individual. he is representative of people of a country and is elected by people. whatever he does is for the prople and on their behalf. how can a country run away from misdeeds of a president by disowning him as an action of individual .

It is elected but this still don't mean that he represents view of whole nation or even the view of all his voters. It is not so simple.

Example I can choose a guy number 1 only because he have only 1 point in his programm that I agree with but the second guy don't have even one such point in program, this don't mean he represents my whole view on life, economy etc. etc.

I am amuzed that people don't understand such simple things!

Agreed. But Govt & its appointed individuals represent the nation as whole.

And he is still a human, he have it's own views, he can even lie to his voters etc. etc. etc. You considered that?

This is why I preffer a good monarchy, democracy is more and more a shithole.

 

[tarunraju]

This is not promotion by a nation or state, it can be promotion only by individuals, the goverment, but goverment do not represent the view of the whole nation and state, do You understand?

As a matter of fact, the government and its actions do. The " whole nation and state" is responsible for the actions of a government, especially that which is elected.

I know that hate to US is very popular, same as hate to Russia etc. But this only prooves that people who think this way are not adult. Sorry this is how it looks like.

If fact-based debate is reduced to "US hate" according to you, and you equate that "US hate" to immaturity, then I have no words for you.

US is far from being a paradise that can do no wrong. It has done a lot of things atrociously wrong with the rest of the world. And it's far from juvenile to nail American hypocrisy each time it gets preachy with the rest of the world about liberty, and human freedoms.

 

[Damian]

As a matter of fact, the government and its actions do. The " whole nation and state" is responsible for the actions of a government, especially that which is elected.

Sorry, only someone naive that belifes in democracy can say so, I do not belive in democracy... besides this, everybody lies, especially politicians, and especially to their voters.

If fact-based debate is reduced to "US hate" according to you, and you equate that "US hate" to immaturity, then I have no words for you.

US is far from being a paradise that can do no wrong. It has done a lot of things atrociously wrong with the rest of the world. And it's far from juvenile to nail American hypocrisy each time it gets preachy with the rest of the world about liberty, and human freedoms.

Show me even one country without fails? There is so? Even one? No, there is no such country, and I still preffer US as a sole superpower with it's ideals and it's flaws than anyother country on this place, besides this, yes it is very easy to hate US, because everybody expects that a sole superpower will devote it's interests to the whole world. Yeah I know, probably for most people the best situation would be if US would give them their money, technology, etc, etc, yeah, then the US would be loved by everyone.

 

[tarunraju]

That telegram shows US being open to its failings not promotion of genocide.

No, it shows how US promoted genocide with its "failing", in which as a matter of fact, it came in the way of a force that was intent to put a stop to the genocide.

I'd like to see one where Indian state dept went WTF are we doing supplying arms to Sri lankans to push a genocide on Tamils!

The title of the thread is "America and its response to genocides", not "India and its response to genocides".

In this thread we thwart American hypocricy for getting preachy about genocides, when it has its own record of promoting genocide in situations that suit its interest.

US promoted genocide. Any attempt to lecturing the world on genocide by US means fuckall.

 

[Damian]

The title of the thread is "America and its response to genocides", not "India and its response to genocides".

In this thread we thwart American hypocricy for getting preachy about genocides, when it has its own record of promoting genocide in situations that suit its interest.

US promoted genocide. Any attempt to lecturing the world on genocide by US means fuckall.

Ahhh, but point of JayATL is very right, You are very keen to point out flaws of other country goverment (and worse, You are accusing the whole nation and country, not goverment!) but You also refuse to talk about flaws of other country goverment flaws.

It is very easy eh?

So who is here a bigger hypocrite?

 

[tarunraju]

Sorry, only someone naive that belifes in democracy can say so, I do not belive in democracy... besides this, everybody lies, especially politicians, and especially to their voters.

Well, whether you believe in democracy or not doesn't change the fact that the "nation" of US is responsible for the actions of its government.

Show me even one country without fails? There is so? Even one? No, there is no such country,

Every nation is imperfect, but that's hardly my point. My point is US stands on no ground to lecture others on genocide and human freedoms. On countless occasions, US supported oppressive regimes, promoted genocide, promoted warcrimes, all to suit its own interests.

 

[SHASH2K2]

It is elected but this still don't mean that he represents view of whole nation or even the view of all his voters. It is not so simple.

Example I can choose a guy number 1 only because he have only 1 point in his programm that I agree with but the second guy don't have even one such point in program, this don't mean he represents my whole view on life, economy etc. etc.

I am amuzed that people don't understand such simple things!

It is elected but this still don't mean that he represents view of whole nation or even the view of all his voters. It is not so simple.

Example I can choose a guy number 1 only because he have only 1 point in his programm that I agree with but the second guy don't have even one such point in program, this don't mean he represents my whole view on life, economy etc. etc.

I am also amuzed that people don't understand such simple things!
Tarun has already answered to the points you have raised. Hope I wont be amuzed this time.

And he is still a human, he have it's own views, he can even lie to his voters etc. etc. etc. You considered that?

This is why I preffer a good monarchy, democracy is more and more a shithole.

Monarchy always make it easier for superpower to operate their without any trouble . Because the king has said so.

 

[LurkerBaba]

Ahhh, but point of JayATL is very right, You are very keen to point out flaws of other country goverment (and worse, You are accusing the whole nation and country, not goverment!) but You also refuse to talk about flaws of other country goverment flaws.

You failed to see the first post of this thread

Biggest proponents for Muslim genocides are Chinese

Now we can go into a debate on semantics and argue that it's the act of individuals (as you have), or we can drop the lawyer-like part and agree that the actions of a Government define the nation

 

[JayATL]

No, it shows how US promoted genocide with its "failing", in which as a matter of fact, it came in the way of a force that was intent to put a stop to the genocide.



The title of the thread is "America and its response to genocides", not "India and its response to genocides".

In this thread we thwart American hypocricy for getting preachy about genocides, when it has its own record of promoting genocide in situations that suit its interest.

US promoted genocide. Any attempt to lecturing the world on genocide by US means fuckall.

Only genocide going on is the attack of the insane in your membrane with that " genocide " accusation... you can scream on top of lungs but here is a funny for you-- Not a single intelliegent writer in India, politician , state dept ever said US promoted genocide in 71. --- and that make your assumptions equally fuckall...

 

[tarunraju]

Ahhh, but point of JayATL is very right, You are very keen to point out flaws of other country goverment (and worse, You are accusing the whole nation and country, not goverment!) but You also refuse to talk about flaws of other country goverment flaws.

It is very easy eh?

So who is here a bigger hypocrite?

You're not following the discussion at all, are you? The discussion started with an American guy getting preachy about genocide, not an Indian guy preaching him back, but instead stripping open the rotten hypocrisy.

 

[JayATL]

You failed to see the first post of this thread



Now we can go into a debate on semantics and argue that it's the act of individuals (as you have), or we can drop the lawyer-like part and agree that the actions of a Government define the nation

why dont you quote the whole post where obviously I was talking about Chinese govt.

 

[Damian]

Well, whether you believe in democracy or not doesn't change the fact that the "nation" of US is responsible for the actions of its government.

No, nation is not responsible, nation is not capabale to predict future, how the hell nation could predict what goverment would do? How?!

Every nation is imperfect, but that's hardly my point. My point is US stands on no ground to lecture others on genocide and human freedoms. On countless occasions, US supported oppressive regimes, promoted genocide, promoted warcrimes.

US did that because of reasons You probably never understand in Your whole life. United States of America are builded on ideals, a patos of freedom, and Americans belifes in these ideals, no matter who their are, presidents or simple workers, but politics are a dirty job, sometimes politician is not honest, he lie to his voters, he have hidden agenda etc. etc. This don't mean that nation or country is responsible for his actions.

The difference is US is the sole superpower these days, and it is much more easy to attack stronger than to attack weaker but much more cruel object.

US is not perfect, but considering the ideals that were basis for that country, they have more right to lecture others than many countries over the world, and this is also their strenght, that they belive in these ideals, even if not allways they are capabale or willing to use them in real life.

 

[tarunraju]

Only genocide going on is the attack of the insane in your membrane with that " genocide " accusation... you can scream on top of lungs but here is a funny for you-- Not a single intelliegent writer in India, politician , state dept ever said US promoted genocide in 71. --- and that make your assumptions equally fuckall...

Lol, I'm not the guy who uses personal slander and screaming like a Disney-promoted Teenstar to get my point across. It's you. In every discussion you're part of.

And it's not for "a single intelliegent writer in India, politician , state dept" to flay US role in 1971, US state department did that.

And to preempt your pathetic "I'dd like to see one where Indian state dept went WTF are we doing supplying arms to Sri lankans to push a genocide on Tamils!" argument once again, this wasn't a "Indian response on genocide" thread to begin with, it was a "US response to genocide".

India didn't preach what it didn't practice with regards to genocide, US did.

Subhratri.