America and its response to genocides

[JayATL]

Every country fights for its own interest, whether its overt support of genocide or enabling economic exploitation of citizens (of small nations) by their mega corporations

USA does this, Russia and China do this, India does/will do it when it goes on the big table. All that is needed is a CNN/Fox News combo to dumb down the general populace

US does not support genocide... dont put in that mix. Its the only country that even when Libya was an ally of sorts- finally came around to US 's favor- it went against its interests to prevent the slaughter. It has done in Egypt too- it had a extremely favourable regime in its favor but did not support the govt. It has done so in yemen too...its stopped genocide against muslims in serbia... etc etc..

 

[LurkerBaba]

US does not support genocide... dont put in that mix.

It did.

America supported the genocide of 3 million Bangladeshi's in 1971, when it tried to stop Indian intervention by sending a super carrier.

The naval forces then chickened out, after a Soviet nuclear submarine surfaced near the carrier battle group.

 

[JayATL]

Oh.... Jay.... You are factually wrong in most things stated above. I will try to answer each.

Us please invest your business here
In 2010, the US invested $9 billion in India, India invested $4.5 in the US. Not quite as one sided as you expected is it?


US please provide us access to latest military equipment

We just threw your outdated planes out of the MMRCA. The C 17 deal got the US approx 30000 jobs for 20 years. Be happy. We are paying you for it. Its not a freakin gift.


US please do a nuclear deal with us ( they lead the charge to open the NSG and have a pact without a NPT)

Here you are talking outta your arse. The nuclear deal was negoitiated at our terms. The NSG or whatever regime still do not have access to any of our military nuclear installations. The CTBT, NPT, and whatever else excl;usion treaties that the US created, specifically targeting India have all failed miserably as we have not signed or ratified any. Our nuclear industry and technology have grown independently and have equalled if not surpassed American or Western know-how. Do some reading on BARC capabilities and how nuclear scientists around the world are in awe of our understanding.

The only reason we needed the deal was access to uranium - to convert over a period of time into reactor grade plutonium. Which would enable us to trigger our own thorium cycle. And the only reason that the US agreed to the deal was that it would bring mucg needed business to their flagging nuclear corporations. Have no illusions about this buddy - It is a FACT


US please take us off the disallowed countries list and give us access to high tech dual usage technology

Simple answer - Israel. They are better and a more trustworthy ally than you are. Also please point to that ultra high sensitive dual use technology that only the US has access to.

US please make it easier for us to get involved in Afghanistan

The Afghans have scant respect for the US. They have a lot of respect for India. When your broke Government finally packs up their bags and leaves we will fill in the gap whether you like it or not.

US please open your markets for the Indian goods

No idea what your smoking but its actually the other way round. The US is one of the most open markets in the world. At the WTO the US has been banging on India's door for more than two decades to open our doors.


US please increase Visa for indians , we know over 60% of the Visas now given go exclusively to indians but we want more

Do you really think you have a choice on this. If you want intellectual capital, you better. Else get more clones from China.


Us please helps us with anti terrorism technology

What technology is that?

US please send your FBI after mumbai attacks ( had it not been for the US, world would not have the irefutable proof and clout to say that Pakistan ISI, govt was behind it)

Apologies, I dont know much about this one. You may even be right here.

US please.....

Yeah, what else?

Freaking amazing- Not one single point do you posses any actual knowledge. Not on US investments, or " the dual technology list that India wants desperately ( Israel gave you AESA,Space technology, military technology that US banned? etc etc) - you have no clue what that restricted list India wants to get off from is or that It's military weapons go beyond C130's , you again have no clue how many others it opened up for sale - P8i , weapons packages, I mean mind boggling the ignorance you have on the subject matter. You think Jobs was not motivating factor before but yet it had banned all of those sales previously ?

afghanistan would be pipe dream if US did not allow India in-- else Pakistan would be running the show there again, again you are simply ignorant of facts on the ground. You think the afghan govt is not a US puppet? then why has iran not be allowed in too? or China is any meaningful way?


You don't even know what anti terrorism technology, bilateral help on counter terrorism it is giving India ( again ignorant about what's taking place- nothing else)...You should be ashamed that you are not aware that nuclear deal with US paved the path to open India's nuclear civilian ambitions because US and only US fought hard for it( nobody was touching India because of the non-signatory on NPT)... I bet you don't know the actual reason why the US- India nuke deal is stuck. I mean the real reason behind the "must provide insurance" clause in place and why the French and Russians have no problem with that clause...



bottom line is you have made reply where any one of the topics at hand would need simple google search. You get an F if you were part of the indian state department. thank god you are not.

 

[trackwhack]

Freaking amazing- Not one single point do you posses any actual knowledge. Not on US investments, or " the dual technology list that India wants desperately ( Israel gave you AESA,Space technology, military technology that US banned? etc etc) - you have no clue what that restricted list India wants to get off from is or that It's military weapons go beyond C130's , you again have no clue how many others it opened up for sale - P8i , weapons packages, I mean mind boggling the ignorance you have on the subject matter. You think Jobs was not motivating factor before but yet it had banned all of those sales previously ?

afghanistan would be pipe dream if US did not allow India in-- else Pakistan would be running the show there again, again you are simply ignorant of facts on the ground. You think the afghan govt is not a US puppet? then why has iran not be allowed in too? or China is any meaningful way?


You don't even know what anti terrorism technology, bilateral help on counter terrorism it is giving India ( again ignorant about what's taking place- nothing else)...You should be ashamed that you are not aware that nuclear deal with US paved the path to open India's nuclear civilian ambitions because US and only US fought hard for it( nobody was touching India because of the non-signatory on NPT)... I bet you don't know the actual reason why the US- India nuke deal is stuck. I mean the real reason behind the "must provide insurance" clause in place and why the French and Russians have no problem with I the clause...



bottom line is you have made reply where any one of the topics at hand would need simple google search. You get an F if you were part of the indian state department. thank god you are not.

You must be right since you sound so passionate about it.

 

[JayATL]

It did.

America supported the genocide of 3 million Bangladeshi's in 1971, when it tried to stop Indian intervention by sending a super carrier.

The naval forces then chickened out, after a Soviet nuclear submarine surfaced near the carrier battle group.

Baghad Bob thats what that claim reminds me of...the country of the United states was going attack india with a super carrier- awesome military thinking on the US behalf. Scary how you guys think..

stay stuck on 71 and just back it up by asking your govt to walk away from the US. meanwhile stay thristy my friend...

 

[LurkerBaba]

Baghad Bob thats what that claim reminds me of...the country of the United states was going attack india with a super carrier- awesome military thinking on the US behalf. Scary how you guys think..

It's called posturing, the USSR had our backs that time

On 6 December and 13 December, the Soviet Navy dispatched two groups of cruisers and destroyers and a submarine armed with nuclear missiles from Vladivostok; they trailed U.S. Task Force 74 into the Indian Ocean from 18 December 1971 until 7 January 1972. The Soviets also had a nuclear submarine to help ward off the threat posed by USS Enterprise task force in the Indian Ocean

 

[JayATL]

You must be right since you sound so passionate about it.

I know ( because I read up) therefore I'm right. Its obvious you had no clue about any of the contentions. The hilarious one was India does not need dual tech because Isreal would give it to India. that and the C130 only claim cracked me up! .. well then there was the afghan piece , followed by the Nuclear deal-- argh... I think all of it cracked me up.

 

[trackwhack]

I know ( because I read up) therefore I'm right. Its obvious you had no clue about any of the contentions. The hilarious one was India does not need dual tech because Isreal would give it to India. that and the C130 only claim cracked me up! .. well then there was the afghan piece , followed by the Nuclear deal-- argh... I think all of it cracked me up.

You are correct about the fact that you are indeed ... cracked up!
We should meet sometime, I live in Jersey City, work in Manhattan. Are you somewhere close, we could catch up for coffee and bury the hatchet.

 

[The Messiah]

Biggest proponents for Muslim genocides are Chinese ... Chinese being the worst of it. Look at their support, and I'm not speaking in spirit, but rather monetary support of Sudan. Here is Syria where Muslims are being killed in ways where people there and its neighbors are calling it a " a massacre, slaughter etc" .

Higher than mountains deeper than seas-- but when it comes to genocidal maniacs, no Muslims are to be free!

Unlike the mighty yanks the chinese dont boast about freedoms and democracy.

see the point ?

 

[JayATL]

It's called posturing, the USSR had our backs that time

and the US nor India knew about the sub. So how did the great US military come up with, lets attack india based on a single carrier theory is still unanswered. and yes! that absurd conclusion should be our guideline about US's genocidal promotion henceforth.

 

[JayATL]

You are correct about the fact that you are indeed ... cracked up!
We should meet sometime, I live in Jersey City, work in Manhattan. Are you somewhere close, we could catch up for coffee and bury the hatchet.

Atlanta - no hatchet to bury. I debate feverishly I dont hold grudges ... and how's the land of free treating ya

 

[LurkerBaba]

lets attack india based on a single carrier theory

A carrier never goes alone, its goes in a battle group. Anyways, USA could've have easily threatened to nuke India, had the Soviets not intervened.

and the US nor India knew about the sub.

US did, they got shocked when the Soviet submarine suddenly surfaced

 

[trackwhack]

Atlanta - no hatchet to bury. I debate feverishly I dont hold grudges ... and how's the land of free treating ya

Aw, too bad, thats too far away.

Short answer - fairly. A little longer answer. Cant wait to get back to Bangalore. But will have to wait another 12 months I suppose.

 

[Daredevil]

Such stupid absolute statements about the US that I fully expect from pakistani ilks- but then seeing an indian posting it -irates me

did you learn that US is genocidal when playing gully danda- because I won't believe any educated thought or studying of historical factual books would promote that...

May be you need to brush up some history on US's role in genocides - some it chose to ignore because it didn't serve its interests and some it chose to act because it is in its national interests and in one case it tried to stop India acting against the genocide to save its poodle Pakistan in South Asia in 1971 (see the lurker's post).

Here is the role of US during Rwanda Genocide

The documents published show that:

Contrary to later public statements, the US lobbied the UN for a total withdrawal of UN forces in Rwanda in April 1994;


Secretary of State Warren Christopher did not authorize officials to use the term "genocide" until May 21, and even then, US officials waited another three weeks before using the term in public;


Bureaucratic infighting slowed the US response to the genocide;


The US refused to "jam" extremist radio broadcasts inciting the killing because of costs and concern with international law;


US officials knew exactly who was leading the genocide, and actually spoke with those leaders to urge an end to the violence.

The US and the Genocide in Rwanda 1994

and the documents here - The U.S. and the Genocide in Rwanda 1994: Evidence of Inaction

And here is a total analysis of US's action or rather inaction during Rwanda genocide

Bystanders to Genocide


Perhaps JayATL missed this post

 

[JayATL]

A carrier never goes alone, its goes in a battle group. Anyways, USA could've have easily threatened to nuke India, had the Soviets not intervened.



US did, they got shocked when the Soviet submarine suddenly surfaced

another baghdad Bob moment. Nuke india ! attack with naval ships only , Genocide promoter.

 

[The Messiah]

General Pinochet - A tyrant put in place by overthrowing a democratic govt and went to kill and torture thousands of his own people and usa the beacon of freedom and democracy put him in charge.

 

[Daredevil]

another baghdad Bob moment. Nuke india ! attack with naval ships only , Genocide promoter.

Not nuke India but threaten India to back-off from East-Pakistan and stopping India form taking action against Pakistani Army. In a way, it was directly supporting the genocide of Bangladeshis by Pakistani Army. If US was the human rights champions that you claim it to be then it wouldn't have sent 7th carrier fleet into the Bay of Bengal for no reason. It would have just kept away from all this fiasco.

Or do you have any explanation as to why 7th carrier fleet was there in Bay of Bengal at that particular time

 

[LurkerBaba]

Nuke india ! attack with naval ships only

Err...you don't need ICBMs to deliver nukes, cruise missiles do a fine job. Anyways, in hindsight it was mostly posturing, meant to send a "strong signal", but you can never be certain in the cold wars days. Especially when:

President Nixon and his national security adviser Henry Kissinger saw India as a "Soviet stooge" during the South Asia crisis of 1971

Nixon/Kissinger Saw India as "Soviet Stooge" in 1971 South Asia Crisis

 

[Damian]

General Pinochet - A tyrant put in place by overthrowing a democratic govt and went to kill and torture thousands of his own people and usa the beacon of freedom and democracy put him in charge.

And in the same time he made Chile one of the best prospering countries in South America... besides who cares about socialists, they killed more humans than Pinochet was ever capabale. Lenin, Stalin, Beria, Castro, Che Guevara, Pol Pot, Kim Jong Ill, Hitler, Mao Tse Tung etc. etc. etc. These guys are way above any level of killing made by Pinochet or even medieval or ancient kings, emperors etc. Think about that.

 

[JayATL]

May be you need to brush up some history on US's role in genocides - some it chose to ignore because it didn't serve its interests and some it chose to act because it is in its national interests and in one case it tried to stop India acting against the genocide to save its poodle Pakistan in South Asia in 1971 (see the lurker's post).

Here is the role of US during Rwanda Genocide




And here is a total analysis of US's action or rather inaction during Rwanda genocide

Bystanders to Genocide


Perhaps JayATL missed this post

JAy ATL knows that Rwanda was a stain on the US not because it PROMPTED IT! Did India by not interfering on Sudan " PROMOTE" it? Maybe you forget the premise of the claim " US Promotes genocide"

Yeah, your right - the only country in the world with the balls and moral compass and history of stopping genocides- did not send its citizens, boys and girls to die in another country in the case of Rwanda. Trust us, clinton too said that was absolutely a disgrace of his adminstartion and regrets it.

Pssst- there was a genocide of tamils to the south of india by a piss poor country who had no militray power to take on India. Tell us why india PROMPTED genocide of a people that had a closer bloodline to itself ( citizenry) than Rwanda had to americans?