AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[john70]

http://idrw.org/give-us-5th-gen-technology-for-fighter-orders-iaf/

That’s too good a news !



Give us 5th Gen technology for fighter orders: IAF

All Interested Companies who are keen to bid on India’s recently issued Request for Information for the supply of 110 units of fighter jets have been told by IAF not only to provide Transfer of Technology (TOT) for this jets to be manufactured in India but also give them access to their technology which can be used by India to produce 5th Generation AMCA fighter jet .

Indian Air Force for the first time has directly linked supply of 110 units of a fighter jet with India’s AMCA fighter jet, which Aerospace Giants see as an enhanced business opportunity which can further consolidate their presence in India due to which many have agreed to IAF’s proposal.

Boeing already has tied up with HAL to produce F-18E/F Super Hornets just off the Chennai in new upcoming Defence corridor if they do win the orders from IAF. Boeing also has offered to use the same facility to manufacture India’s AMCA jointly with HAL once the orders of F-18E/F Super Hornet are full filled.

Boeing which lost out to Lockheed Martin in Joint Strike fighter contract in the United States over a decade ago is only company which has experience in manufacturing of 5th generation fighter jets and is also keen on keeping its fighter jet business open after United States Navy started replacing F-18s with F-35 fighter jets.

Dassault Aviation which already has bagged orders for 36 Rafale aircraft also has offered deep Technology Transfer for local production and is also keen to collaborate on the development of the AMCA.

French Companies already have offered to develop a new engine to power AMCA with India and have also offered Radars, and other sensor packages for AMCA and LCA-Tejas MK1A and MK2.

Swedish Saab also as offered its Gripen-E to India and is also keen to collaborate with India to develop AMCA. Saab which is working on Flygsystem 2020, which is an ongoing project by the Swedish Air Force to develop a fifth-generation jet fighter stealth aircraft by 2020 is working out details how both programs can benefit each other if it is awarded a contract for 110 units.

Lockheed Martin which has offered India it’s F-16 Dash 5 Configuration aircraft is keen on making India Service hub for all the F-16 fleet operator and also to develop new aircraft for export. Lockheed Martin which is the developer of worlds first 5th generation aircraft F-22 and later followed up with F-35 seems to be the strongest candidate on paper but the company has not made any direct offer to collaborate on the development of AMCA and they are very much keen to sell their F-35s to India in future.

Russian offer of Mig-35 looks weak but with strong economic sanctions and week economy, we will have to wait to see if there will be game changer offer coming from Russian to work on India’s AMCA. India is yet to agree to procure FGFA Stealth fighter aircraft from Russia and in past Russians have been very keen on linking both the project together.

Eurofighter consortium is the most silent observers in IAF’s RFI till now and has not disclosed if they are interested in offering their Eurofighter Typhoon to India. Eurofighter Typhoon along with Dassault Rafale was only other aircraft which cleared all the technical parameters of the then MMRCA Tender but lost out due to pricing.

By linking India’s AMCA program with 110 units of the fighter, IAF plans to buy from International Vendor. IAF is ensuring that there is a fail-safe mechanism in place for India’s biggest aerospace project to avoid delays it had to face due to lack of technological partner and also due to delays in technology realization for the LCA-Tejas program.

 

[rohit b3]

http://idrw.org/give-us-5th-gen-technology-for-fighter-orders-iaf/

That’s too good a news !



Give us 5th Gen technology for fighter orders: IAF

All Interested Companies who are keen to bid on India’s recently issued Request for Information for the supply of 110 units of fighter jets have been told by IAF not only to provide Transfer of Technology (TOT) for this jets to be manufactured in India but also give them access to their technology which can be used by India to produce 5th Generation AMCA fighter jet .

Indian Air Force for the first time has directly linked supply of 110 units of a fighter jet with India’s AMCA fighter jet, which Aerospace Giants see as an enhanced business opportunity which can further consolidate their presence in India due to which many have agreed to IAF’s proposal.

Boeing already has tied up with HAL to produce F-18E/F Super Hornets just off the Chennai in new upcoming Defence corridor if they do win the orders from IAF. Boeing also has offered to use the same facility to manufacture India’s AMCA jointly with HAL once the orders of F-18E/F Super Hornet are full filled.

Boeing which lost out to Lockheed Martin in Joint Strike fighter contract in the United States over a decade ago is only company which has experience in manufacturing of 5th generation fighter jets and is also keen on keeping its fighter jet business open after United States Navy started replacing F-18s with F-35 fighter jets.

Dassault Aviation which already has bagged orders for 36 Rafale aircraft also has offered deep Technology Transfer for local production and is also keen to collaborate on the development of the AMCA.

French Companies already have offered to develop a new engine to power AMCA with India and have also offered Radars, and other sensor packages for AMCA and LCA-Tejas MK1A and MK2.

Swedish Saab also as offered its Gripen-E to India and is also keen to collaborate with India to develop AMCA. Saab which is working on Flygsystem 2020, which is an ongoing project by the Swedish Air Force to develop a fifth-generation jet fighter stealth aircraft by 2020 is working out details how both programs can benefit each other if it is awarded a contract for 110 units.

Lockheed Martin which has offered India it’s F-16 Dash 5 Configuration aircraft is keen on making India Service hub for all the F-16 fleet operator and also to develop new aircraft for export. Lockheed Martin which is the developer of worlds first 5th generation aircraft F-22 and later followed up with F-35 seems to be the strongest candidate on paper but the company has not made any direct offer to collaborate on the development of AMCA and they are very much keen to sell their F-35s to India in future.

Russian offer of Mig-35 looks weak but with strong economic sanctions and week economy, we will have to wait to see if there will be game changer offer coming from Russian to work on India’s AMCA. India is yet to agree to procure FGFA Stealth fighter aircraft from Russia and in past Russians have been very keen on linking both the project together.

Eurofighter consortium is the most silent observers in IAF’s RFI till now and has not disclosed if they are interested in offering their Eurofighter Typhoon to India. Eurofighter Typhoon along with Dassault Rafale was only other aircraft which cleared all the technical parameters of the then MMRCA Tender but lost out due to pricing.

By linking India’s AMCA program with 110 units of the fighter, IAF plans to buy from International Vendor. IAF is ensuring that there is a fail-safe mechanism in place for India’s biggest aerospace project to avoid delays it had to face due to lack of technological partner and also due to delays in technology realization for the LCA-Tejas program.

Hahaha..hahahaha....hAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Sancho]

Just 5 tons of external stores and only 8G? Really?

I noticed the 8G limit and the lack of Supercruise and Supermanouverability in the new info board too.
Originally, AMCA was meant to have the NG capabilities (IAF is insisting on SC for FGFA too) as well and TVC was meant to give it high manoeuvrability. Has that changed? The specs and the poor weapon bay capacity, makes it look more like a NG Jaguar, rather than a proper NG fighter.
Wonder if cost cutting is happening here as well?

 

[aditya10r]

http://idrw.org/give-us-5th-gen-technology-for-fighter-orders-iaf/

That’s too good a news !



Give us 5th Gen technology for fighter orders: IAF

All Interested Companies who are keen to bid on India’s recently issued Request for Information for the supply of 110 units of fighter jets have been told by IAF not only to provide Transfer of Technology (TOT) for this jets to be manufactured in India but also give them access to their technology which can be used by India to produce 5th Generation AMCA fighter jet .

Indian Air Force for the first time has directly linked supply of 110 units of a fighter jet with India’s AMCA fighter jet, which Aerospace Giants see as an enhanced business opportunity which can further consolidate their presence in India due to which many have agreed to IAF’s proposal.

Boeing already has tied up with HAL to produce F-18E/F Super Hornets just off the Chennai in new upcoming Defence corridor if they do win the orders from IAF. Boeing also has offered to use the same facility to manufacture India’s AMCA jointly with HAL once the orders of F-18E/F Super Hornet are full filled.

Boeing which lost out to Lockheed Martin in Joint Strike fighter contract in the United States over a decade ago is only company which has experience in manufacturing of 5th generation fighter jets and is also keen on keeping its fighter jet business open after United States Navy started replacing F-18s with F-35 fighter jets.

Dassault Aviation which already has bagged orders for 36 Rafale aircraft also has offered deep Technology Transfer for local production and is also keen to collaborate on the development of the AMCA.

French Companies already have offered to develop a new engine to power AMCA with India and have also offered Radars, and other sensor packages for AMCA and LCA-Tejas MK1A and MK2.

Swedish Saab also as offered its Gripen-E to India and is also keen to collaborate with India to develop AMCA. Saab which is working on Flygsystem 2020, which is an ongoing project by the Swedish Air Force to develop a fifth-generation jet fighter stealth aircraft by 2020 is working out details how both programs can benefit each other if it is awarded a contract for 110 units.

Lockheed Martin which has offered India it’s F-16 Dash 5 Configuration aircraft is keen on making India Service hub for all the F-16 fleet operator and also to develop new aircraft for export. Lockheed Martin which is the developer of worlds first 5th generation aircraft F-22 and later followed up with F-35 seems to be the strongest candidate on paper but the company has not made any direct offer to collaborate on the development of AMCA and they are very much keen to sell their F-35s to India in future.

Russian offer of Mig-35 looks weak but with strong economic sanctions and week economy, we will have to wait to see if there will be game changer offer coming from Russian to work on India’s AMCA. India is yet to agree to procure FGFA Stealth fighter aircraft from Russia and in past Russians have been very keen on linking both the project together.

Eurofighter consortium is the most silent observers in IAF’s RFI till now and has not disclosed if they are interested in offering their Eurofighter Typhoon to India. Eurofighter Typhoon along with Dassault Rafale was only other aircraft which cleared all the technical parameters of the then MMRCA Tender but lost out due to pricing.

By linking India’s AMCA program with 110 units of the fighter, IAF plans to buy from International Vendor. IAF is ensuring that there is a fail-safe mechanism in place for India’s biggest aerospace project to avoid delays it had to face due to lack of technological partner and also due to delays in technology realization for the LCA-Tejas program.

That's a polite way of saying we don't want your jets.

_________________________________________

 

[Sancho]

F35 conformal EOTS is not as good as other EOTS on 4th gen. fighter jets

EOTS is an integrated sniper targeting pod, which had some IRST capabilities. It is "not" a fully fledged IRST system comparable to EFs Pirate, or Russian OLS and it's main use is A2G targeting and tracking. The Sniper technology was inferior to modern Litening pods and that's where coming upgrades of Sniper and EOTS will make it more comparable...

...however, since the F35 weapon bays can only use size limited LGBs, from short distances, it's main use is in 2nd day CAS or strike missions, when F35 would use external loads anyway. For most of the other strike missions or weapons, EOTS or an external targeting pod is not always necessary and even less in A2A missions, where it only adds weight.

So depending on which missions the fighter is aimed on and which weapons it's meant to use, an IRST can be more important than EOTS.

Personly I would like to see single seat versions with IRST and twinseaters with EOTS. The latter are not only more useful in strike missions, but also in recon and surveillance. The key of stealth fighters is, that they can operate ahead of conventional fighters, to collect and share infos. That's when a WSO would come in handy and it also would be enough to let the twin seater take over laser guidance and the single seaters deliver the bombs.

 

[Kshithij]

AMCA is to be powered by 2X GTRE k9 + or K 10 engine that can capable of producing 125Kn thrust each. Full scale development of the K 9 and K 10 engine is scheduled to be completed by 2019. But whether it would be alive a kicking by then is the moot point.

More than anything I'm worried about the engine, a underpowered engine would drag this plane down.
And we must look for indigenous solution for the engine tech.
Time is ripe if we let this chance escape we won't get in any more.

Let us compare AMCA with F35:

Empty weight: AMCA- 12-13 tonnes; F35- 13 tons
Fuel: AMCA- 6tonnes; F35- 8.5tons
Internal payload: AMCA- 6xAstra or 2x500kg LGB + 2xAstra =1.5tons; F35- 2x1000kg LGB + 2xAIM9 =2.5tons
External payload: AMCA- 5tons; F35- 6+tons

F35 with 6.5tons fuel and 1.5ton internal payload - 21tons. AMCA with full fuel and internal payload- 13+6+1.5 = 20.5tons. So, with similar internal fuel and load, AMCA and F35 weigh almost the same

If F35 can be run by a single 120/180kN engine, I don't see a reason AMCA can't be run by twin 65/100kN. Also, taking into consideration the wider than usual body of F35, the drag of F35 will be higher. So, with the advantage of lower drag and 10% higher thrust engine, I don't see why AMCA will underperform with twin F414 or similar class Kaveri. AMCA with maximum fuel & internal load using 65/100kN engine will have same TWR as Rafale having 50/75kN engine without load but full fuel.

In aero-engines, the engines work most efficiently at thrust rating of the maximum. So, using a higher thrust engines like 125kN is not recommended. It will increase the speed drastically and thus reduce the mileage due to increased drag. Just installing a big engine is not the right solution. Unlike cars, aero-engines can't be run at different thrust range efficiently.

I noticed the 8G limit and the lack of Supercruise and Supermanouverability in the new info board too.
Originally, AMCA was meant to have the NG capabilities (IAF is insisting on SC for FGFA too) as well and TVC was meant to give it high manoeuvrability. Has that changed? The specs and the poor weapon bay capacity, makes it look more like a NG Jaguar, rather than a proper NG fighter.
Wonder if cost cutting is happening here as well?

Where is the info about lack of supercruise? Can you point it out? The 8G limit shows that the plane has been more focused on stealth and speed instead of maneuver. The body is also flat pyramidal instead of curved conical design which reflects this priority.

 

[Sancho]

Where is the info about lack of supercruise? Can you point it out? The 8G limit shows that the plane has been more focused on stealth and speed instead of maneuver.

As usual, you jump into comments, without understanding the topic.
The I asked why it isn't mentioned anymore although earlier infobords and graphics mentioned it?
And yes, 8G would rather hint on lower manoeuvrability, which however was not the initial plan with TVC. Which again brings us to my question

Wonder if cost cutting is happening here as well?

 

[Kshithij]

As usual, you jump into comments, without understanding the topic.
The I asked why it isn't mentioned anymore although earlier infobords and graphics mentioned it?
And yes, 8G would rather hint on lower manoeuvrability, which however was not the initial plan with TVC. Which again brings us to my question

Can you point me where the supercruise ability of Tejas is mentioned? Otherwise, you can't claim that the info was excluded. ADA may not be giving importance to Super cruise and hence does not put it as a parameter anywhere consistently

 

[Steven Rogers]

I noticed the 8G limit and the lack of Supercruise and Supermanouverability in the new info board too.
Originally, AMCA was meant to have the NG capabilities (IAF is insisting on SC for FGFA too) as well and TVC was meant to give it high manoeuvrability. Has that changed? The specs and the poor weapon bay capacity, makes it look more like a NG Jaguar, rather than a proper NG fighter.
Wonder if cost cutting is happening here as well?

The performance could been sustained for testings and not the final variant of the plane. They also didn't showed the serrated engine nozzle.

Sent from my Aqua Ace II using Tapatalk

 

[Immanuel]

100kN Kaveri is what is in line. The EPE F414 is for 110kN and that is still a dream. The Kaveri is likely to match F414 engines AFAIK and flat rated to F404 level

F414 EPE is slated to go the upgraded SH Block 3 in USN by 2020. Kaveri in current form doesn't match the F414 but more or less the F404 and that's some time away from testing on LCA. Meanwhile LCA mk-2 will be powered by the F414 INS6 and AMCA will in all cases get the F414 EPE. A 100+ KN Kaveri is not even on the drawing board.

 

[Immanuel]

AMCA is to be powered by 2X GTRE k9 + or K 10 engine that can capable of producing 125Kn thrust each. Full scale development of the K 9 and K 10 engine is scheduled to be completed by 2019. But whether it would be alive a kicking by then is the moot point.

Full scale Dev of K-9 is to be completed next year followed by extensive trials, you can be sure this K9 engine won't even power the LCA MK-1A or LCA MK-2 production aircraft (Ge already began supply of the F414). You can expect at best a few PVs flying with the Kaveri K-9 for around 2 years before they are deemed fit for operational service. One can then expect the first batch of LCA currently operational to switch to the K9 during a scheduled overhaul around 2022-23. K-10 will probably power the AMCA during MLU. Such engines have a long development and testing cycle before they go anywhere near flights.

Keep in mind both K-9 and certainly K-10 will need to be subject to extensive maritime trials as well since it will have to power Naval Tejas and AMCA.

 

[Immanuel]

LCA since the start was supercruise capable but being overweight and underpowered didn't allow that. LCA mk-2 with F414 will supercruise and if they manage to shave off 500kg+ for LCA mk-1A, it should be able to perform a mild supercruise as well.

 

[Kshithij]

F414 EPE is slated to go the upgraded SH Block 3 in USN by 2020. Kaveri in current form doesn't match the F414 but more or less the F404 and that's some time away from testing on LCA. Meanwhile LCA mk-2 will be powered by the F414 INS6 and AMCA will in all cases get the F414 EPE. A 100+ KN Kaveri is not even on the drawing board.

Kaveri K9 is not F404 level engine. If the bypass is increased, it will become F414 class engine. The bypass of 0.16 is too small and will be increased. The F414 is for initial prototypes only, not permanent solution. F414 is a reliable engine and hence prototypes need the reliability for testing. Bothe AMCA and Tejas MK2 will be powered by F414 initially. Once the flight performance is proven, the engine will be switched.

LCA since the start was supercruise capable but being overweight and underpowered didn't allow that. LCA mk-2 with F414 will supercruise and if they manage to shave off 500kg+ for LCA mk-1A, it should be able to perform a mild supercruise as well.

Tejas is a delta wing plane. With just 7 BVR missiles and no other loads, Tejas most probably can super cruise. The Total weight of Tejas will be 10 tonnes at full fuel. At half fuel and 3BVR missiles, the weight is likely to be 8.5 tonnes. So, 55kN thrust may be able to propel it into supercruise in this configuration. If full loadout is compared, then even Rafale or Typhoon can't supercruise.

Super cruise is useless concept and is best ignored. It is not useful in normal mission as the drag increases drastically from 0.9Mach speed and hence fuel efficiency goes down drastically. Since a turbofan engine works best at its maximum thrust (without A/B), it will be compulsory to use it in maximum thrust as far as possible to increase fuel efficiency of engine. If the super cruise ability exists, then the drag factor will eat into it. Since supercruise also works at highest thrust of engine, the super cruise ability generally becomes a problem. The best speed for delta-wing plane is 0.8-0.9 Mach for fuel efficiency

 

[Sancho]

The performance could been sustained for testings and not the final variant of the plane. They also didn't showed the serrated engine nozzle.

Sent from my Aqua Ace II using Tapatalk

You don't advertise tests specs to the public, especially not the first time you present such specs at all. Those have to be the planned goals, but as explained doesn't fit to the earlier plans and statements.

- F22 has 2D TVC for high manoeuvrability
- J20 canards and probably soon TVC as well
- Su 57 steps it up with movable LERX and 3D TVC
- F35 has no feature to improve manuverability

No TVC would be a disappointment, same as no SC .

 

[Sancho]

F414 EPE is slated to go the upgraded SH Block 3 in USN by 2020.

Not really, the EPE was only proposed in the Advanced Super Hornet, as part of the road map of possible upgrades, for existing or potential SH customers. The USN however was never interested in the EPE, but in the EDE with reduce costs, since additional thrust was not a requirement for them. In fact the only upgrades from the ASH they took for the Block 3, were CFTs, WAD cockpit upgrades, improved data links and avionics, while they also only chose the cost-effective IRST solution in the centerline pod.

 

[Prashant12]

Aeromag Magazine AMCAUpdates:

Medium Combat Aircraft project of ADA.

The Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) is a 5th generation fighter concept. The feasibility study of the AMCA has been completed and a feasible configuration has been evolved. The design of AMCA will meet the requirements specified by the IAF. The AMCA will feature a twin-engine and single-seat layout. It will have inherent stealth mode and will be able to carry advanced weapons. Initially it is planned to build two Next Generation Technology Demonstrators (NGTD). These will leverage the existing technology of the LCA to achieve the target of first flight within five years.

http://www.aeromag.in/Magazines/4220205605.pdf

 

[ersakthivel]

Ri

I noticed the 8G limit and the lack of Supercruise and Supermanouverability in the new info board too.
Originally, AMCA was meant to have the NG capabilities (IAF is insisting on SC for FGFA too) as well and TVC was meant to give it high manoeuvrability. Has that changed? The specs and the poor weapon bay capacity, makes it look more like a NG Jaguar, rather than a proper NG fighter.
Wonder if cost cutting is happening here as well?

right approach .

We only hv 414 as engine choice.
Promising super cruise with meaningful load is not possible, bcos engine doesn't hv spare power .

So go the mk1, mk2 way.

First deliver a baseline stealth striker.

Upgrade when better engine tech comes around.
Dont over promise & under deliver.

 

[Bleh]

Is 3B-09 Configuration, final AMCA Design?
http://idrw.org/is-3b-09-configuration-final-amca-design/

SOURCE: VISHAL KARPE / FOR MY TAKE / IDRW.ORG

Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) has displayed Two Scale models of Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) at Defence Expo 2018 which is currently being held in Chennai, TamilNadu. AMCA Scale model was displayed showcasing Stealth and Non-Stealth configuration even though both models displayed were not exact same of the same design.

Stealth configuration of Scale model which is same as AMCA design which was provided in the documents issued for the Request for Expression of Interest to seek vendors who could manufacture Two Next Generation Technology Demonstrator (NGTD) based on Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

Configuration 3B-09 is latest configuration refinement which was carried out from the initial 3B-01 concept over the years while working on design refinement by ADA.

ADA has promised that vendor selection will be done by end of this year for AMCA and once the final contract is confirmed, selected vendors who could manufacture Two Next Generation Technology Demonstrator (NGTD). NGTD-1 within 3½ of executing a contract with ADA and NGTD-2 within the end of 4th year.

After Next Generation Technology Demonstrator (NGTD) completes initial flight trials, ADA has proposed to develop first Prototypes of AMCA from 2025 on wards before aircraft is cleared for production from 2030 on wards.

That is 3B-09...

But none of the images of that version, has a horizontal stabilizers like on the AMCA from this year's Defexpo!

Is this model a new one.. Anybody knows?

 

[scatterStorm]

AMCA is to be powered by 2X GTRE k9 + or K 10 engine that can capable of producing 125Kn thrust each. Full scale development of the K 9 and K 10 engine is scheduled to be completed by 2019. But whether it would be alive a kicking by then is the moot point.

Could be kept confidential as well. May be we would go with F414 at first and later switch to GTRE K9 or K10 once it's actually qualified for test flight purposes.

 

[scatterStorm]

I noticed the 8G limit and the lack of Supercruise and Supermanouverability in the new info board too.
Originally, AMCA was meant to have the NG capabilities (IAF is insisting on SC for FGFA too) as well and TVC was meant to give it high manoeuvrability. Has that changed? The specs and the poor weapon bay capacity, makes it look more like a NG Jaguar, rather than a proper NG fighter.
Wonder if cost cutting is happening here as well?

If this is true, we might have a lemon AMCA. Sacrificing payload and internal fuel ... biggest mistake.
Arrey ni chahiyey 5th gen, 4.5++ hi banado bhen%^$ , fokat mai logo ko chutiya bana rahey hai.


We have witnessed in Vietnam war, that even missiles can't save your ass if you have a lemon jet.