Amazing debate between TTP and Pakistan Army

Bangalorean

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This is awesome stuff. It is a long debate between a TTP scholar and a Pakistan Army scholar. There are English subtitles also, for those who don't understand Urdu well. I strongly recommend everyone should listen to the whole thing. It is 100% worth it.

The TTP guy wins the debate, hands down. That is the conclusion. Others can put their own conclusions.

 
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Bhadra

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Absolutely mesmerizing debate? It is amazing to see that there are people of tribal middle age thinking and there is an Army of middle age thinking.

The question of Jihad and purity of Muslims and the question who is a Muslim is very old in the subcontinent.

watch this which may make one understand what is this all about.

 
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Bangalorean

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A person on this thread has been kind enough to provide a summary of the debate for those who can't hear the full thing:

Bharat Rakshak "¢ View topic - Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

On the same theme, in addition to what I said above, note that the TTP spokesman wasn't some rabble rouser off the street coming up with a half baked interpretation of Islam that wilted under the barest scrutiny.

No, this TTP spokesman is obviously a man who has studied the Qur'an and the life of the Prophet in depth, who knows his hadith literature, gave his views with the precision of a logician, the knowledge of a scholar and certainty of a man who knows that he is dead right.

In fact I'd be proud to have him on my debating team any day. Heck, he can be the captain.

He also mostly kept an even tone, while the Pak fauji officer was reduced to a spluttering mess.

Other comments by Maulana TTP:

- Our religion is not based on logic or compassion, it is based on copying references in the Qur'an and hadith. Allah's command to us is to be harsh on the kaffir (EMQ 48:29) and so we are.

- Anyone who serves in PA is a kaffir.

- Pakistan banks are maal-e-ghanimat or war booty and emptying them is considered jihad. At the time of the battle of the Badr, the Prophet actually seized the trade convoy of Abu Sufyan.

- However TTP tries only to rob government banks, however mistakes can be made, and TTP repents its mistakes. After all TTP consists of human beings and human beings make mistakes. :lol:

- Kidnapping for ransom is also part of jihad. It is allowed in the Shariah.

- Actual quote- "Sometimes we (TTP) seize a gentlemen such as yourself (pak fauji) and extract money from him" :rotfl:

- Pakfauj's presence in tribal areas is gunda gardi (Bullying/ thuggery)

- Today, because of kaffir Pak fauj, peace in Pakistan is like the peace in a grave yard, where nothing is secure- honour, property or religion. We pray that this anarchy continues, because we intend to use it to establish shariah in Pakistam.

-Pak fauj takes American money, American weapons and American know how to kill Muslims. And it claims to be doing jihad?!!

- To kill a Pak fauji is the same as killing an American soldier. Whether we kill in Afghanistan or Pakistan, it's the same thing- we don't recognize these boundaries

- Pak fauj has rented Maulvis on its payroll. TTP will kill all such Maulvis. We are allowed to do this by Shariah.

-The Prophet migrated from Mecca to Medina, and gained strength there. When he gained strength in Medina he attacked Mecca. We are the same. It is therefore only right that our Uzbek and Turkmen brothers come here to gain strength to fight the kaffir in their own countries.

- Right now we are too busy fighting Pak Fauj (who falsely call themselves Muslim) to help our brothers elsewhere.

- Mullah Omar is our leader. His commands come to us through trusted couriers, in secret- you think they should be published on the internet!??

- Question by an increasingly frustrated Pak fauji near the end "Do you take money from India?". TTP mans answer, "Why, are you ill? Your leaders go to India, hobnob with Bollywood stars.....you accepted defeat in Kargil, gave Kashmir to India. 90000 of your soldiers laid down their weapons in front of Indians" :rotfl:

- We will establish Shariah or embrace shahadat (martyrdom)

- Interesting back and forth

Pakfauji- "We made a mistake when we trusted you to liberate Kashmir. You said you would liberate Kashmir but did not"
TTP spokesman - "We will fight India - this is Ghazwa tul Hind. But the fighting in Kashmir, Lashkar e Taiba, Jaish e Muhammad, etc are working under you and your orders. You can feed them and make them fat, but they have nothing to do with us"

- Once Pak fauj's 'Uncle America' goes home, Pak Fauj will scream
 

Bangalorean

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Absolutely mesmerizing debate? It is amazing to see that there are people of tribal middle age thinking and there is an Army of middle age thinking.

The question of Jihad and purity of Muslims and the question who is a Muslim is very old in the subcontinent.
It is funny and very fascinating to see how both parties - the TTP and the Pak Army - constantly try to find examples from the Prophet's life, Quran and Hadiths, to justify what they are doing. The concept of universal rights, human rights, right or wrong, basic ingrained morality - all these concepts are totally lost on these fellows. If it can be proven that the Prophet endorsed something 1400 years back, you can do it. Period.

One more very noteworthy thing is that both parties in this debate strongly agree that it is ok if Kaffirs are killed or attacked or destroyed. It is only the safety, security and prosperity of Muslims that ought to be taken care of. This is almost axiomatic in their debate. There is no disagreement upon this point. The Paki armyman only keeps questioning the TTP about why they attack Muslims. The TTP man keeps saying that supporters of America are as good as Kaffirs, so they deserve death.
 

Razor

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Correct me if I'm wrong, the YT channel must belong to a terrorist or a terrorist sympathizer, right ?
So watching the video, liking it, sharing it etc will generate money for them ? :shocked:

PS: I've already clicked it, but watched only like 15 min, coz I couldn't bear listening to cave men arguing 7th century desert musings.
 

Bangalorean

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Correct me if I'm wrong, the YT channel must belong to a terrorist or a terrorist sympathizer, right ?
So watching the video, liking it, sharing it etc will generate money for them ? :shocked:

PS: I've already clicked it, but watched only like 15 min, coz I couldn't bear listening to cave men arguing 7th century desert musings.
The real interesting parts come later in the video. It is worth watching in full. It is fun to see these Paki Army chaps, who constantly beat their chests calling themselves "warriors of Islam", getting bashed up by TTP men who are even greener than they are. Now the Paki Army fellows are wondering whether they are really "Islamic".

As far as the generating money part is concerned - the amounts are minimal in the overall context of their funds and finances. The amount of money that this entire video will generate for them is sufficient to purchase Diesel for one trip from Karachi to Peshawar. :lol:

Let us not worry too much about the money generation part - we need to watch such videos to know how the enemy thinks. At this point, the official Paki establishment is our declared enemy. TTP is an enemy of our enemy. We need not help the TTP or sympathize with them, but we need to know about them.
 

Bhadra

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The observation is that the way the very idea of Pakistan based on Islam took roots and got fructified had to degenerate into search for who is Muslim, the true Muslim and the pure Muslim?

That led them straight to Macca and Madina, declaring themselves to be Ashraffs. Mirzas and Sayeeds ; claim Turkish, Mugal, Mangol or Arabic titles and names. That led to discrimination between the pure Muslims and convert Muslims whom they left back in India. It was this phenomenon that led second generation convert Iqbal to ask them " Muslman bhi ho ? "

This dilemma further led them to have a divide between Sia and Sunnis, hate the Shias, Ismailies, Dawoodies and first of all the Ahmadies. In due course of time that further led them be Wahhabis, fundamentalists and strait away put them in Saudi lap due to doble lure of money and purity.

Listen to the tirade the Maulavi expressed against MA Jinha implying that he was a Hindu converted to Ismali Shia (which he was). He also suggested and claimed with contempt that he was a purer and better Muslim than the Pakistanis. As a whole, he, forgetting his past when he would also been a Hindu or Buddhist. This question was asked by the Pakistani officer but the Mullah gave him better answer. The age old fault line between the Tribal Muslims of the frontier and ( supposedly converted) plains man of Punjab was so revealing.

No doubt, it is because of this that the Punjabis and Sindhies of Pakistan are so scared of these frontier Pashtuns and Pathans who define their own idea of Islam independent of the rest of Pakistan. It is also hard to imagine that these people by and large were more secular and independent of the bigotries of Pakistan under Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan (sarhadi Gandhi) and ANP and that they voted for Congress in the first ever elections held there.

That is typical case of dilemma of a convert seeking more and more purity and stressing that he is actually purer than the original by escaping from his past as forcefully as he can. Both the debaters, specially that Army officer , were trying that in their arguments. However, the Mullaha emerges a clear winner in the debate due to clarity of his thoughts (whatever they may be) diction and deliberation. The Army officer was fumbling and trying to prove his points more by force and less by conviction. Lesson _ the Army man should focus more on putting one bullet into Maulana's head rather than proving himself a better Mullaha. Ha Ha Ha...

It is this phenomenon and psyche of rise of Islam and spread of fundamentalism post 1974 that led all communities in Pakistan to prove themselves purer Muslims - ultimately leading to the victory of Fundamentalist Wahabi Sunnies, elimination of Shias and declaring Ahmadies , Dawoodi Bohras as non Muslims.

Look at the fate ... and Karma... The people who were in the forefront of creation of Pakistan, namely Shias, Ahmadies and Mohajirs have got the results of their karmas and sins. They snatched a homeland for themselves from Hindus but the pure Wahhabi Sunni Muslims have declared them Kafirs and second class citizens in Pakistan. Hona Hi Tha...

Strange are the ways of Karma and Maya.....

A thought - is not it also a matter for India to interfere into whatever happens in Pakistan? Does selling Gwadar not effect India? Was that part of India once upon a time. Should India keep quite on all these stupidities that occur in our neighbourhood and whatever those pseudo Nawabs of Mogul India do ?. Or is it because of India that they do all that? Second part of the ponderings being just a wild thought.

The third wild thought being is that India must keep as much aloof from them as possible and not allow them to unite in the name of enemy India. Let them kill each other and watch the fun... occasionally say Sabhash Sabash !!
 
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Bangalorean

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@Bhadra, good post. The Pakis are stewing in their juice because they started a competition to see who is the greenest of them all. Everyone thumps his chest to show his "pious Islamic credentials", until the next person comes along and shows how he is an even better Muslim, and goes to even greater lengths to loudly proclaim his faith and commitment to Islam, and to Kaffir-eradication.

That is why I don't feel sorry for the Ahmadis and Shias of Pakistan. Not one bit. They were at the forefront of the "we are pure Muslims and Hindus are dirty Kaffirs, we want to leave these Kaffirs aside", movement. Now they are reaping the fruits of what they had sown.
 
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Bhadra

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@Bhadra, good post. The Pakis are stewing in their juice because they started a competition to see who is the greenest of them all. Everyone thumps his chest to show his "pious Islamic credentials", until the next person comes along and shows how he is an even better Muslim, and goes to even greater lengths to loudly proclaim his faith and commitment to Islam, and to Kaffir-eradication.

That is why I don't feel sorry for the Ahmadis and Shias of Pakistan. Not one bit. They were at the forefront of the "we are pure Muslims and Hindus are dirty Kaffirs, we want to leave these Kaffirs aside", movement. Now they are reaping the fruits of what they had sown.
I do feel sad for them and wish to pray along the celebrated Faiz ... also himself in the forefront of partition movement but then most of the times jailed in Pakistan..

Khudaa wo waqt na laaye
Faiz Ahmed Faiz








Khudaa wo waqt na laaye ki soGawaar ho tuu
sukuu.N kii nii.nd tujhe bhii haraam ho jaaye
terii masarrat-e-paiham tamaam ho jaaye
terii hayaat tujhe talKh jaam ho jaaye


Gamo.n se aaiinaa-e-dil gudaaz ho teraa
Hujuum-e-yaas se betaab hoke rah jaaye
wafuur-e-dard se siimaab ho ke rah jaaye
teraa shabaab faqat Khwaab ho ke rah jaaye


Guruur-e-husn saraapaa niyaaz ho teraa
tawiil raato.n me.n tuu bhii qaraar ko tarase
terii nigaah kisii Gam_gusaar ko tarase
Khizaa.N_rasiidaa tamannaa bahaar ko tarase


koii jabii.n na tere sang-e-aastaa.N pe jhuke
ki jins-e-ijz-o-aqiidat se tujh ko shaad kare
fareb-e-waadaa-e-farda pe aetamaad kare
Khudaa wo waqt na laaye ki tujh ko yaad aaye


wo dil ki tere liye be-qaraar ab bhii hai
wo aa.Nkh jis ko teraa intazaar ab bhii hai

Faiz Ahmed Faiz
 
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shinoj

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I know these talib Bastards are eventually an enemy of India but there were some funny things they said about Jinnah..

Not Quaid-e-Azam but Kaddu-e-Azam..:rofl:
 

Pratap

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Its interesting TTP Mulla has more clarity than paki army .............

This is our way we will kill u if u are not agree with me.... it's all written in a Book :rofl:

PA&Jinna now become KAFIR :rofl:
PA and Jinnah were always kaffirs. Jinnah was a man who was known for his pork eating and weakness for wine.
 

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