Al-Khalid MBT And Pakistani Armour

amoy

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Thumb up for the MBT-2000/Al-Khalid Tanks. There should be more of such deals to the whole world, so long as the sales is profitable.

Just think of Lockheed or Martin......... and how actively the US or Russia are promoting weapon exports I understand there's a big room for expansion, for both profit and for peace!

I'm just curious who holds the main stake in the CN and PAK joint venture
 

Armand2REP

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Thumb up for the MBT-2000/Al-Khalid Tanks. There should be more of such deals to the whole world, so long as the sales is profitable.

Just think of Lockheed or Martin......... and how actively the US or Russia are promoting weapon exports I understand there's a big room for expansion, for both profit and for peace!

I'm just curious who holds the main stake in the CN and PAK joint venture
This is the Chinese VT1A by Norinco, so it would be China's deal. This tank is a heavily stripped down version of the Al Khalid manufactured by China without all the European goodies like Ukrainian engines with French auto-transmission or the Buran-Metis thermal imagers. Pakistan doesn't have anything to do with VT1A to my knowledge.
 

amoy

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a heavily stripped down version of the Al Khalid manufactured by China without all the European goodies like Ukrainian engines with French auto-transmission or the Buran-Metis thermal imagers========================

thanks for enlightment. I shall say China (Norinco) shall master the core technology as soon as possible so that the weapon export will be more profitable and popular in the world market. Besides I have to say 'without all the European goodies' sounds a bit ironical - let us rise up - not to worship those 'goodies'. we shall be proud people without that sense of inferiority trained in colonial times.
 

Armand2REP

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thanks for enlightment. I shall say China (Norinco) shall master the core technology as soon as possible so that the weapon export will be more profitable and popular in the world market. Besides I have to say 'without all the European goodies' sounds a bit ironical - let us rise up - not to worship those 'goodies'. we shall be proud people without that sense of inferiority trained in colonial times.
Norinco won because they make the cheapest production tank. It is better than upgrading their T-55s and Peru can't afford anything but a deal where they are given an easy payment option. VT1A isn't on par with the PLA's Type 99s. It is a cheaper export version. Pakistan didn't incorporate alot of the Chinese technology, instead deciding to buy more expensive European parts, because they need tanks that can compete with the latest Indian developments. Pakistan looked to Europe for JF-17 for good reason too, China has alot of work to do before their quality is up to Europe.
 

badguy2000

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Norinco won because they make the cheapest production tank. It is better than upgrading their T-55s and Peru can't afford anything but a deal where they are given an easy payment option. VT1A isn't on par with the PLA's Type 99s. It is a cheaper export version. Pakistan didn't incorporate alot of the Chinese technology, instead deciding to buy more expensive European parts, because they need tanks that can compete with the latest Indian developments. Pakistan looked to Europe for JF-17 for good reason too, China has alot of work to do before their quality is up to Europe.
well, thank you ,for you didn't put T99 in the league of T34.....:twizt:
 

Dark_Prince

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I beg to differ, AL-Khalid is a cheap version of Type-90 Chinese tank, assembled in an haphazard way with Ukrainian and French parts....The possibility Peru may Buy it after BD rejection would only result in China supplying tanks i.e Type 90-II not pakistan its AL-Khalid. If Peru ever likes it, thats a caveat for Peru.
 

ahmedsid

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Al Khalid has too many Outside Systems onboard. I mean can Pakistan fully gurantee parts and systems if they are going to sell it to third part countries? How can Pakistan gurantee it when they themselves have no control over it! Thats the worst part about the AK Tank I feel, other than that, It suits Pakistan best.
 

Dark_Prince

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They have been trying very hard to sell it. Recently, SLA also rejected it, its not sturdy at all, just any other Chinese armored vehicle!
 

ahmedsid

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They have been trying very hard to sell it. Recently, SLA also rejected it, its not sturdy at all, just any other Chinese armored vehicle!
Could you care to support your argument that its not sturdy and just another armored vehicle?

Never underestimate the person you gonna meet on the battle field, it might be the last thing you will do, Wrong!

The AK is perfect for the Pakistani Army. It does everything they want to do, economically.
 

Dark_Prince

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Could you care to support your argument that its not sturdy and just another armored vehicle?

Never underestimate the person you gonna meet on the battle field, it might be the last thing you will do, Wrong!

The AK is perfect for the Pakistani Army. It does everything they want to do, economically.
Sure, you are absolutely correct that AK is Economically Viable option for Pakistan, but definitely not a viable option on the battle ground.

Some links for comparative analysis (Do have a look at the Armor, Range, ATGM capability, Fire control system etc etc and how it has been further developed from Chinese Type-59, then Type-69, then Type-85 now its part of MBT-2000):

http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product41.html
http://www.ciar.org/ttk/mbt/pakistan.al-khalid.art3_tank.html

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/t90/
http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/MBT/t-90.html
 

ahmedsid

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Compared to the T90 the AK may seem meek, but it still can fight, and I dont think the Shotra is on all our T90s, correct me please.

How does AK compare to our T72s which form our Backbone as of now? I mean with our own forces saying they are 80% night blind and all! Its time we seriously take a look at this.
 

Dark_Prince

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Compared to the T90 the AK may seem meek, but it still can fight, and I dont think the Shotra is on all our T90s, correct me please.

How does AK compare to our T72s which form our Backbone as of now? I mean with our own forces saying they are 80% night blind and all! Its time we seriously take a look at this.
Sir, T-90s are equipped with Shotra anti-jamming system (I mean all). Secondly, you are again correct, T-72 is vintage and they are in such pathetic condition that they have been given out for up-grades with night visions, electronics, fire controls etc etc and what not!! These upgrades could be a part of Tank EX project, just a speculation!

But I am perfectly sure Indian army with 1000+ T-90s (currently 650+ with constant upgrades) as MBT will not pitch T-72 even against RPG holding enemy. But I would prefer the money to buy more T-90s or invest in Arjun project to reduce weight etc....What I know Israelis are working on electronics, fire mechanism etc lets see what these trials against T-90s bring out of Arjun.

Leave alone AK even if Pitted against T-80U, T-90s will outperform it!

http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/TRIALS/19991020.html
 

Dark_Prince

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Saab LEDS-150 for T-90s

Sweden’s flagship company Saab Group, which also owns Gripen International and late last January opened its representative office in New Delhi, recently won two significant contract awards from the Ministry of Defence, one worth US$24 million for supplying the CIDAS integrated all-digital defensive aids suite for the 16 armed Dhruv ALH helicopters now being built by HAL for the Indian Air Force (IAF), and the other for supplying the LEDS-150 active protection system (APS) for the Indian Army’s T-90S+ and T-90M main battle tanks (MBT). Presently, the DRDO’s Bangalore-based Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DARE) and SaabTech are co-developing the MILDS AN/AAR-60 missile approach warning system (MAWS), which forms only one component of the CIDAS defensive aids suite. The MAWS is of South African origin and was further co-developed by EADS ewation (Germany) and Grintek Ewation (South Africa) after decided to merge by 2001. This was followed by SaabTech taking a stake in Avitronics (part of Grintek). SaabTech now owns both the South African companies (Grintek and Avitronics) as well as the EADS-Grintek joint venture. Therefore, in conclusion, the prime contractor for supplying the CIDAS defensive aids suite is SaabTech. The CIDAS will also find its way on board the HAL-developed Light Combat Helicopter, whose first prototype will be rolled out this March. In addition, the CIDAS will also most likely be on board the to-be-upgraded Ka-28PL, Ka-31 and Sea King Mk42B helicopters of the Indian Navy, and also on the 60 armed Dhruv ALHs that the Indian Army will be procuring for its projected Combat Aviation Brigade, which will also be employed for vertical envelopment operations in support of expeditionary amphibious warfare campaigns. A version of CIDAS also exists for combat aircraft and will in all probability be selected for installation on board the Su-30MKI in the near future, since the Su-30MKIs lack on-board missile approach warning systems and laser warning systems. Another aircraft to be equipped with CIDAS will be the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) now being co-developed by HAL and Russia’s United Aircraft Corp.

The contract for supplying the LEDS-150 APS suite for installation on board 987 T-90 MBTs has been won against stiff competition, and follows the Army HQ’s issuance of RFPs on April 24 last year. A total of six companies (Israel Military Industries, RAFAEL, BAE Systems, Raytheon, Rosoboronexport, Saab, and Germany’s IBD Deisenroth Engineering) were invited for submitting bids for supplying 1,657 APS suites worth $270 million. APS suites offered were Russia’s Kolomna-based KBM Engineering Design Bureau’s Arena-E, Israel Military Industries’ Iron Fist, RAFAEL Advanced Defence Systems’ Trophy, Raytheon’s Quick Kill, Saab’s LEDS-150 and Deisenroth Engineering’s AMAP-ADS. Eventually, the LEDS-150 was selected and its procurement contract was inked last month. The Land Electronic Defence System (LEDS) combines active signature management, soft-kill and hard-kill mechanisms to provide full spectrum active protection to armoured vehicles. Full hemispherical coverage is provided to detect incoming threats and alert the crew. When installed in full configuration, the LEDS-150 offers MBT-comparable protection to light and medium combat vehicles against engagement by weapons like RPG-7s, anti-tank guided-missiles, KE ammunition, mortars and field artillery shells. The LEDS-150 typically comprises laser warning sensors, ADC-150 active defence controller AD, a number of munition confirmation and tracking sensors, and high-speed directed launchers, which allow the combination of soft- and hard-kill countermeasure deployment capability to the platform, optional displays, and interconnecting harnesses. The hard kill feature of the LEDS-150 is characterised by its capability to physically destroy the efficiency of the terminal ballistic capability of attacking munitions without residual penetration of the protected vehicle. The hard kill system detects and tracks a single or simultaneous threats and calculates if the attacking munition will hit the platform or not. The system determines the best inertial intercept position and provides the slew and firing commands to the launchers. The Mongoose-1 countermeasure missile is launched at a predetermined time to intercept and neutralise the detected munition off-board at a distance of between 5 metres and 15 metres from the vehicle to minimise the collateral damage to own forces.--Prasun K. Sengupta







http://trishulgroup.blogspot.com/2009/03/idas-for-indian-t-90-mbts-selected.html
 

Armand2REP

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Ukraine prevents the sale of Chinese tanks

Wiith the possible sale of Chinese tanks MBT2000 in Peru, Ukraine declares that the use of these tanks power pack compartment must be agreed with the Ukrainian authorities.

According to the Peruvian newspaper La Republica, the country's Defense Minister, Rafael Rey said that before signing a contract to purchase the tanks MVT2000 with Chinese firm NORINCO, he gave urgent instructions to army command to check whether the company is authorized by the Ukraine, which produces engines with systems and transmission mounted on the Chinese tanks.

Please Defense Minister came after KMDB im.Morozova (manufacturer of motor-transmisionnyh offices with 6TD-2 engine for IMT-2000) reminded the leadership of NORINCO that China's re-export of these components in Peru must obtain a permit in Ukraine.

Ray said: "Naturally, as engines and transmissions in China's tanks are produced in Ukraine, we will ask for confirmation of this information not only from China but also to the Ukrainian authorities, and do it at the highest level."

On 12 December last year, immediately after the demonstration of Chinese tanks on parade in Lima, Chief Designer KMDB, General Michael Borisyuk sent an angry letter to the Director of Ukroboronservis (Ukrainian state company which is engaged in exports of arms and carried with the army of Peru the failed negotiations for the sale of tanks "MBT"), in which he noted that China has no right to re-export of Ukrainian production of components for IMT-2000.

In addition, the general Borisyuk noted that China does not have the opportunity to replace the 6TD-2 engines and transmission systems of Ukrainian origin, without which the IMT-2000 will lose many of their basic combat skills.

"At present, China does not have enough or transmission systems or engines 6DT-2 to meet the needs of Peru" - said Borisyuk.

Thus, China should request the engines from Ukraine, but Ukraine is not configured to meet the needs of China for the delivery of results for the ground forces of Peru.

"The Chinese have no alternative engine for the tank MBT2000 with similar characteristics - notes manager KMDB - Single supply engines and gearboxes, with further re-exports to Peru with the interests of Ukraine in the region."

January 13 this year, VB Kozhevnikov, director of the Ukrainian state arms export company "Promoboroneksport," recalled the director of the Chinese company NORINCO Liu Chiayi that in the case of re-6TD-2 engines and gearboxes for tanks IMT-2000, the Chinese party must obtain a permit in Ukraine.

"We are ready to sign contracts for the supply of engine-transmission system with engine 6TD-2", "- Kozhevnikov said in a letter to Chiayi, stressing at the same time:" Re-export of Ukrainian components (installed in tanks MBT-2000) to other countries is impossible without the written the consent of the Ukrainian side.

While agreeing with the general Borisyuk that China does not have enough power pack units, Kozhevnikov Chiayi wrote: "Ukraine is ready to meet the needs of the tanks MVT-2000 in the necessary equipment for the country specified in the end-user certificate", which Ukrainians have received from the Chinese in 2000.

In other words, China is unable to sell in Peru tanks MVT-2000 without the prior consent of the Ukrainian manufacturer of high-power engines 6DT-2 and gearboxes for them.

Rafael Rey said: "I have asked the Chief of Ground Forces Otto Gubovitsa verify the information. We expect a positive response from the Chinese state-owned NORINCO, negotiate. We must be sure that the tank MVT2000 arrive with all the equipment. This is a great tank, but it would be better to exclude any difficulties, "the minister said.

In Peru, a ballyhoo are raised as to the revenge of the Ukrainian company, because the tank MBT was not selected for the purchase of that country. However, in Ukraine believe that this problem is caused by a violation of China's international standards controlling the supply of arms and military equipment.

Sergei Wei

http://vpk.name/news/36506_ukraina_prepyatstvuet_prodazhe_kitaiskih_tankov.html
 

Armand2REP

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Peru cancels purchase of Chinese tanks

Peru cancels the purchase of Chinese tanks MBT-2000

14.04.2010 / Army Guide



The Peruvian newspaper La Republica reported that, although in recent weeks, Peruvian army received from the Chinese state-owned Norinco proposal to reduce the price of 5,8 million to 4,7 million dollars, the Minister of Defence of Peru, Rafael Rey said that the decision of the Council of National Defense suspended the acquisition of a large number of tanks, which was announced on 8 December last year.

Peru suspends indefinitely the purchase of Chinese tanks MBT-2000

Peru's President Garcia said that instead of buying expensive tanks, the country needs more helicopters and transport aircraft, in particular, to support combat operations against insurgents and needs assistance to victims of disaster.

According to sources, the defense industry, across the country has only 11 helicopters Mi-17, which is clearly not enough.

About the decision to freeze the purchase of new tanks, it became known after the Government of Peru to Ukraine to confirm a ban on the sale of Chinese tanks Ukrainian components. Ukraine is a manufacturer of engines and transmissions for tanks MBT-2000, in which the army decided to replace the Soviet T-55. Depending on the response of Kiev, could identify promising acquisition.

During the talks the Chinese replaced the MBT-2000 and renamed it in the TPC-2010. Tank with a new symbol, they suggested Peru and costs 4.7 million dollars per unit.

This opposition is expressed regarding the situation with the purchase of Peruvian Chinese tanks are much more sharply, suggesting that the decision was not based on considerations of expediency, but through a more serious lobbying by the Chinese. It is noted that representatives of the army in 2009, attended KMDB. AA Morozova, leading enterprise in Ukraine and had the opportunity to get acquainted with a beautiful tank MBT. Comments about it military personnel were only positive. Nevertheless, the President of Peru after visiting China took an incomprehensible decision on the passage of tanks MBT-2000 on a parade in Lima, and then on their purchase.

But after constant maneuvering Chinese in negotiations and the replacement of the tank on the other, about which nothing is known, under pressure from the opposition, it was decided to suspend negotiations.

Sergei Wei

http://www.army-guide.com/rus/article/article_1584.html
 

Armand2REP

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$5.8 million for that piece of junk... wow, now we know why they really cancelled it.
 

A.V.

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President Garcia said that instead of buying expensive tanks, the country needs more helicopters and transport aircraft, in particular, to support combat operations against insurgents and needs assistance to victims of disaste
r.

does it strike a chord for the HAL officials
more helicopters where is the marketing dept
 

nimo_cn

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Engine has been a major factor that hampers the development of Chinese weapons such as planes, ships and tanks for a long time, and it still will be in the future.

I believe we will see such thing again because the shortage of Chinese own engines can not be resolved overnight.
 

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