Akash Surface-to-air Missile

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by LETHALFORCE, Mar 24, 2009.

  1. Docc

    Docc New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2017
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1
    gadeshi likes this.
  2. Kshithij

    Kshithij DharmaYoddha Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2017
    Messages:
    2,242
    Likes Received:
    1,920
    The problem with Akash is that it is a heavy missile powered by Ramjet. Barak-8 is a dual pulsed motor powered missile with semi-ballistic trajectory. The speed of Akash is same as Brahmos as it also uses the same technology. The speed of Barak-8 is just 2Mach or less. Barak-8 also has seekers which Akash is getting only now.

    As a matter of fact, both Akash and Barak-8 is made in India, except for seekers. Akash has no seekers while Barak-8 has Israeli seekers. So, once seekers are made, both missiles will be fully indigenous.

    Akash can be compared to Brahmos as both have similar engine and warhead to missile ratio. Akash range could be 30km diagonally at 15km height which means that Akash has to travel up in the air for 15km. Barak-8 has a range of 70km, not 90km. Also, the range may be at a lower flight ceiling.

    It is likely that under same conditions for testing both missile, Akash may have similar range as Barak-8. Barak-8 has lower speed at 2Mach or less and likely to be inferior is Akash gets a seeker. Bt, Akash is not compatible with ships due to its high weight and hence lower number of missiles that can be fit into a ship. 32 Barak-8 can be loaded whereas if Akash is used, it can be lesser.
     
    Bullet and gadeshi like this.
  3. Kshithij

    Kshithij DharmaYoddha Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2017
    Messages:
    2,242
    Likes Received:
    1,920
    Booster stage is not called as first stage. It is just a small booster with oxidizer and fuel mixture. Ramjet needs motion to suck in air for burning its fuel. Hence ramjet can't provide initial thrust
     
  4. Kay

    Kay Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,029
    Likes Received:
    1,322
    Location:
    Delhi
    Akash is solid fuelled ramjet. Brahmos is liquid fuelled ramjet. Theoretically, liquid fuelled ramjet can attain greater velocities as the fuel burns quicker.
    The dual pulse rocket of Barak-8 is intended to give it another boost at the terminal phase when the target may itself be accelerating. This gives it a greater kill probability by stopping the target from outrunning it and giving more energy to the missile.
    In case of Akash, the missile flies at sustained speed throughout once the booster phase completes. It cannot throttle as throttling a solid fuelled ramjet requires integrated ducted ram-rocket design like Meteor or the ramjet has to be liquid fuelled. A meteor like msiike would be too costly. A liquid ramject would be too heavy. Also, we don't have the tech to make them.
    Dodging Akash in it's terminal phase would be different from dodging the Barak-8. Akash would chase the aircraft longer but Barak-8 would chase it faster.
    Also, Akash like design having an integrated booster (needed as ramjets cannot start from zero speed) would be a heavier missile than compact rocket fuelled missiles.
    This is why Russians thought Akash (Kvadrat) was an evolutionary dead end and had moved on to rocket fuelled missiles. Akash NG has to be rocket fuelled. A2A ramjet missiles like Meteor make sense as they don't need large boosters as they have initial velocity and also because of integrated rockets.
     
    Kshithij likes this.
  5. Kshithij

    Kshithij DharmaYoddha Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2017
    Messages:
    2,242
    Likes Received:
    1,920
    Kvadrat is 1-1.5 Mach speed and is not comparable to Akash

    Barak-8 has maximum speed of 2 Mach. Akash has sustained speed of 2.5-3 Mach. Akash chases faster. Barak chases longer due to its second stage firing.

    Liquid fuel need not burn faster. Solid fuel burns faster and also can be mixed with some oxidiser to increase speed.

    You are right in saying Barak-8 flies longer. But, it is bad against planes flying at 1.5 mach speed. Barak-8 is for less maneuverable cruise missiles and not for extreme maneuverable and fast jet.
     
  6. Kay

    Kay Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,029
    Likes Received:
    1,322
    Location:
    Delhi
    No. I was saying Akash chases longer - it has high sustained speed but cannot throttle. It can chase longer as it can get the oxygen from air and need not carry it.
    Barak-8 can throttle to high speed in end phase because of second rocket pulse, closing in too the target. Kavdrat and Akash are similar technology wise.

    "The aft fuselage contains the annular solid propellant first stage booster, with a launch mass of ~172 kg and a length of 1.7 metres, using VIK-2 propellant. The igniter initiates a burn along the central 5.4 cm dia. cavity. The engine has burn duration of about 3 to 6 seconds and accelerates the missile from 0 to ~ Mach 1.5. Once the booster has burned out, it becomes the combustion chamber / nozzle for the solid propellant rocket ramjet. Four symmetrically placed air inlets feed into this chamber. Frangible fibreglass covers are used to prevent air ingestion prior to sustainer ignition."

    http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2K12-Kvadrat.html

    "The centre fuselage contains the gas generator fuel charge for the solid propellant ramjet operation. The 9D16K sustainer solid gas generator charge comprising 67 kg of LK-6TM reducing propellant is ignited and the hot gas discharge vents into the combustion chamber, where it is mixed with air to burn and generate sustainer thrust. Burn duration is ~20 seconds, during which the missile accelerates to a peak velocity of ~2.8 Mach. Russian sources claim that the sustainer cannot be throttled and as a result this limits choices in missile trajectories."
     
  7. Kshithij

    Kshithij DharmaYoddha Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2017
    Messages:
    2,242
    Likes Received:
    1,920
    It can't throttle, but can maneuver well. Isn't it? As long as Akash is maneuverable, it can change its direction and home in at speeds faster than the fighter jet can escape.

    Also, chasing faster by Barak-8 is not correct since the terminal phase speed is still 2 Mach. Akash chases faster than Barak-8.

    The way I see it, the only problem with Akash is that it has excessive weight due to inefficient usage of fuel.

    The way I see it -

    Barak-8 has longer range but is slower and travels in semi ballistic trajectory and fires the second stage when it nears the target. But, even this stage gets a maximum speed of 2Mach. In addition, the slow speed of the 1st stage will make it easier for the fighter jet to detect and evade even before Barak-8 gets a chance to come near and activate 2nd stage. Barak-8 can be easily evaded if the fighter jet detects it at a distance due to low speed of the missile and hence there is very small absolute kill zone

    Akash is fuel inefficient and has a sustained speed of 3Mach and burns lot of fuel due to air drag, lowering its range. But, once a plane is within about 15-20km, there is no way it can escape as Akash missile is always faster than the plane and highly maneuverable too. But, the range if interception is low, with a maximum of 30km.


    Verdict - Akash has a guaranteed kill zone at 15-20km while Barak-8 has kill zone at very close range only, at about 3-5 km which is not much effective. Barak-8 is suitable only for cruise missiles which don't maneuver or detect interceptors and change course
     
    Kay likes this.
  8. Kshithij

    Kshithij DharmaYoddha Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2017
    Messages:
    2,242
    Likes Received:
    1,920
    http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=174118

    Press Information Bureau
    Government of India
    Ministry of Defence
    05-December-2017 19:40 IST

    Successful Launch of Akash Missile
    The Surface to Air Missile AKASH with indigenous radio frequency seeker against target Banshee, has been successfully launched from the Launch Complex-III at ITR Chandipur today at 1338 hrs. The Radars, telemetry and electro-optical systems along the coast have tracked and monitored all the health parameters of the missile. The launch operations were witnessed by
    Director General (Missiles), DRDO and Scientific Adviser to Raksha Mantri (SA to RM) Dr. G Satheesh Reddy; Director DRDL, Shri MSR Prasad; Program Director, Shri G Chandra Mouli; Director ITR, Dr. BK Das and other top DRDO scientists.
    SA to RM congratulated all the DRDO scientists and Armed Forces for this success.

    This missile is being inducted into Army as Short Range Surface to Air Missile (SRSAM). This is the first Surface to Air Missile with indigenous seeker that has been test fired. With this success, India has achieved the capability of making any type of Surface to Air Missile.

    [​IMG]

    ***

    MJPS/NA/NM
     
  9. tejas warrior

    tejas warrior Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2015
    Messages:
    1,268
    Likes Received:
    3,686
    Location:
    India
    ^^Akash 1-S

    Akash with an indigenous radio frequency Seeker
     
    Jay Patel and Kshithij like this.
  10. Kshithij

    Kshithij DharmaYoddha Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2017
    Messages:
    2,242
    Likes Received:
    1,920
    We finally got seekers for Akash missile. Long overdue
     
    sayareakd likes this.
  11. tejas warrior

    tejas warrior Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2015
    Messages:
    1,268
    Likes Received:
    3,686
    Location:
    India
    Yeah, mostly Next Generation Akash NG will also use proven Seeker of Akash 1-S.
     
  12. Kshithij

    Kshithij DharmaYoddha Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2017
    Messages:
    2,242
    Likes Received:
    1,920
    Even Astra has RF seekers. Maybe Akash seeker is a spin-off
     
    sayareakd likes this.
  13. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    17,705
    Likes Received:
    18,332
    Looks like they are testing systems for Akash NG. This will go into both.
     
  14. TPFscopes

    TPFscopes Rest in Peace Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2017
    Messages:
    1,235
    Likes Received:
    2,601
    Location:
    New Delhi


    Another milestone achieved towards Indigenization..
    :india:
     
  15. porky_kicker

    porky_kicker No longer active Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2016
    Messages:
    3,520
    Likes Received:
    20,442
    akash 1S with RF seeker

    DQSbQ3iUEAAQeDL.jpg
    Untitled.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
    Jay Patel, Kay, IndiaRising and 2 others like this.
  16. porky_kicker

    porky_kicker No longer active Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2016
    Messages:
    3,520
    Likes Received:
    20,442
    akash 1S with RF seeker

    DQSbQ3iUEAAQeDL.jpg
    Untitled.jpg
     
  17. porky_kicker

    porky_kicker No longer active Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2016
    Messages:
    3,520
    Likes Received:
    20,442
    actually i was kind of thinking it will be really clever to use AKASH MK1 and AKASH 1S missiles together for protection of assets.

    AKASH MK1 missiles are command guided which means it will be really difficult to defeat the missile by airborne EW assets or onboard jammers carried by aircraft's .

    AKASH S1 has RF seekers which will allow it autonomy for target engagement irrespective of ground based radar (GBR) .

    firing combination of AKASH MK1 and AKASH S1 missiles at a single target in combination will complicate the end game scenario with respect to the enemy aircraft's thereby increasing kill probability even in the face of heavy countermeasures and escape tactics.

    eg.

    a enemy aircraft/aircraft's attacking an asset protected by AKASH SAM system will need to employ

    1.ARM successfully to defeat RAJENDRA radar ie defeat AKASH MK1 missile

    2. employ onboard / pod EW systems continuously and successfully to defeat AKASH S1 missile

    when i fire a AKASH S1 missile at a hostile target and follow it up by simultaneously launching a AKASH MK1 missile at the same target RAJENDRA radar will simultaneously guide the AKASH S1 missile (until its RF seeker acquires the target independently and no longer needs RAJENDRA radar for end game) and AKASH MK1 missile (which RAJENDRA will be actively guiding till final end game)

    this should overwhelm the pilot of the hostile aircraft. because not only has he has to defeat the powerful ground based rajendra radar guiding the approaching AKASH MK1 (his onboard EW will be totally stressed to defeat a GBR) , simultaneously he has to initiate his onboard EW against a 'MAD DOG' AKASH 1S missile closing in independently of GBR .

    this scenario i put is overly simplistic but my only aim is to give an idea as to how to using two kinds of guided AKASH might tip the favour in AKASH's advantage .

    i must warn things are not so simple but neither are they too complicated.
    and i am no expert in such matters. so be kind to me :cowboy:
     
  18. Kshithij

    Kshithij DharmaYoddha Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2017
    Messages:
    2,242
    Likes Received:
    1,920
    Both akash will be command guided. One will have additional seeker for better accuracy. Command guidance will always involve some time lag. Seekers will be more accurate
     
  19. Chinmoy

    Chinmoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2015
    Messages:
    5,026
    Likes Received:
    7,581
    Akash-1S is evolvement of Akash Mk1. Today was its first development firing trial. Eventually after its induction both Mk1 and 1S would be used in tandem for time being. But we would see a gradual shift towards NG down the line.
     
    porky_kicker likes this.
  20. porky_kicker

    porky_kicker No longer active Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2016
    Messages:
    3,520
    Likes Received:
    20,442
    yes

    inducted and already ordered systems will end up using this combo . will increase its potency a long way.

    anyways hope akash NG gets testfired soon ,
     
    Chinmoy likes this.

Share This Page