Aircraft Crash Notification

[Innocent]

In India there is an "airforce wives organization" formed specially to get Indian made planes decommissioned. They didn't succeed with the Dhruv but they managed to ground around 280 Chetak helos. In what other org will you find a case where the wife of a serving member goes to the defense minister and says "I get to have an overriding say in the kind of equipment the government buys, just because my husband is using it". These are paid protests by foreign equipment vendors to stall Indian projects.

Army, IAF ground 280 Cheetah and Chetak choppers for safety checks



So IAF grounded those choppers but the Navy is still using them with pride. Even the Army is operating them in Siachen. Only IAF has an issue with everything.

They lobbied and grounded the Chetak fleet and they went ahead to issue RFP for new imported helos and did corruption even in that! << (that was their intention for the protest anyway, but they got caught).




@sorcerer Dono me problems hai, neither HAL nor IAF is clean. On one side HAL had sold 4 Dhruv helicopters to Ecuador. 2 of them crashed and Ecuador grounded the whole fleet. This time, HAL says "pilot error", like Sukhoi says about IAF. Everyone be passing the buck.

On the other side IAF is also not far behind. They have expertise in crashing all sorts of planes. It's not limited to Russian MIGs. They even crashed a C130 Hercules which has a clean track record. Abh kisko blame karoge? C130 is not made by HAL and no IAF wife went to defense minister because when foreign plane is purchased, everyone gets a proper commission, so no one cares about "bad equipment".

IAF chief himself has said, several higher ups in Congress had "shared" the bribe money from foreign imports. He's not even denying it, he's just saying, mai chor hu toh UPA bhi chor ho. Good explanation bro. UPA chor hai ye pata tha, tum chor ho ye naya naya pata chala hai. They were threatening that if the govt doesn't agree to buy more foreign stuff, then they wont induct Tejas. Ultimately they were forced to induct it under govt pressure. The govt must simply start recruitment and training of new IAF staff on the platform that the govt intends to use, and court marshal those who take press conferences and blackmailing the govt.

Imagine you were the leader of the nation facing imminent/permanent threat from neighbor, what would you do if :

• The IAF stalls your attempt to build your indigenous planes for decades
• Then claims that since there is no Indian equipment, let us buy foreign equipment
• Once you agree to import some, cooks up 5-front war scenario to force you to buy a 100 more
• Keeps crashing planes in monthly ceremonies
• IAF wives keep lobbying you to decommission an entire fleet
• When Kargil war actually happens, and you ask your IAF guy to drop a laser guided bomb, he tells you "sir, we...umm..forgot to induct that weapon in our arsenal..we need to go to Israeli Flipkart and buy tomorrow."

Where is national interest in all of this? It's running on the whims of the IAF bois and their wives to decide what equipment we buy. They decide what equipment we buy, so that they can crash it, and we must also not question them. LGB was invented/made available for commercial sale in the 80's itself. The IAF "forgot" to induct them for a decade. They kept lobbying for Mirage but forgot to buy LGB when it was needed in Kargil, we had to buy at exorbitant rates at the last moment (perhaps there's no sales commission offered on LGB). What opinion would you have about the DNA of such an organization? (not a rhetoric question, I'm really asking, at what point do we say, let's introspect.)

Few days ago some member ( i dont remember name of said member) suggested that we should disband the airforce and split the assets between Indian army and navy, if things are really that bad and grim i then think this does not sounds that bad.
I know most member here would find this suggestion absurd, silly and even childesh ( it mostly is).

But it is possible??

 

[Anikastha]

Few days ago some member ( i dont remember name of said member) suggested that we should disband the airforce and split the assets between Indian army and navy, if things are really that bad and grim i then think this does not sounds that bad.
I know most member here would find this suggestion absurd, silly and even childesh ( it mostly is).

But it is possible??

Instead of disbanding we can do following things.
Army aviation : Gunships , attack helo's and few transport aircraft ( rotary and fixed wings)
Air Force : Air dominance , Electronic warfare , transport aircrafts , Special ops units for SEAD op , bomber aircrafts
Navy : Its perfect the way it is but it needs more helos.

 

[The Ultranationalist]

Few days ago some member ( i dont remember name of said member) suggested that we should disband the airforce and split the assets between Indian army and navy, if things are really that bad and grim i then think this does not sounds that bad.
I know most member here would find this suggestion absurd, silly and even childesh ( it mostly is).

But it is possible??

Army should be given attack helos and ground attack jets like jaguars. Instead of disbanding the air force emphasis should be given on making the training more rigorous especially for the maintenance deptt and bringing more efficiency in operations. But yes, there are some organisations which do need to be disbanded, HAL and OFB. These guys are a bunch of nutjobs and disgrace for the country.

 

[indiatester]

https://theprint.in/defence/blow-by-blow-account-of-mirage-2000-jet-crash-in-bengaluru/189899/

This is what happened in the seconds before the Mirage 2000 crashed
Footage from Mirage 2000 crash hints at a possible mechanical issue. IAF studying video obtained from Air Traffic Control in Bengaluru.
SNEHESH ALEX PHILIP Updated: 9 February, 2019 11:33 am IST

Mirage 2000 fighter aircraft after it crashed in Bengaluru | PTI
Text Size:





New Delhi: The Indian Air Force (IAF) is minutely scrutinising footage of the recent Mirage 2000 crash, obtained from the Air Traffic Control, and suspects that a possible mechanical issue and failure of the arrester barrier at the end of the runway may have contributed to the accident.

The crash, at the Hindustan Aeronautical Limited (HAL) airport in Bengaluru, killed both IAF test pilots — Squadron Leader Samir Abrol and Squadron Leader Siddhartha Negi.

Sources said the footage shows that the pilots tried to touchdown a second after takeoff, indicating a possible mechanical fault. They added that the entire sequence of the crash has been caught in the video, which is key to unravelling the cause of the accident along with the jet’s black box, which has been sent to France for analysis.

HAL had carried out six test flights on the aircraft and it was on its second test by the IAF when it crashed.

The video
According to top defence sources, the video shows that the aircraft had released its brakes and accelerated. They said that at about 13 seconds from the wheel roll, the nose wheel had lifted off the ground and seven seconds later, the entire aircraft was off the ground.

“When the aircraft is about five metres from the ground, its nose pitches sharply down and it hit the runway on its main wheels and tail,” a source said. The source added that the impact damaged the runway and an “orange flame” is seen on impact.

Sources said that as a result of the impact, the main undercarriage collapsed and sheared off due to the force of the crash-landing.

By then, the braking tail-chute, located on the underside of the tail, is also damaged but the aircraft continues to move forward on its two-wing drop tank and nose wheel.

Sources said that at this point, the pilots would have hoped that the arrester barrier would have stopped the aircraft as there was no breaking device other than the friction of the drop tank scraping the ground.

Also read: Mechanical failure could be behind Mirage 2000 accident, death of 2 pilots

The barrier that failed
Sources said the video shows that the arrester barrier appears to have failed as it was unable to stop the aircraft. The arrester barrier is a net with two hydraulic jacks that is at the end of the runway to ensure that an aircraft does not overshoot it.

“The video indicates the barrier had failed and the aircraft appears to have lifted off the ground and cleared the 10-ft high boundary wall neatly before hitting the ground and finally exploding into flames,” a source said.

Just as the aircraft hit the ground, two seats are seen to eject in sequence but it was too late by then.

Sources said the video clearly shows that something has happened in the aircraft after lift-off to cause the pilots to try to touchdown immediately. “The black-box holds the key to a lot of questions,” sources said.

 

[Haldiram]

Instead of disbanding we can do following things.
Army aviation : Gunships , attack helo's and few transport aircraft ( rotary and fixed wings)
Air Force : Air dominance , Electronic warfare , transport aircrafts , Special ops units for SEAD op , bomber aircrafts
Navy : Its perfect the way it is but it needs more helos.

^ ^ Basically this ^ ^

Disband doesn't mean India shouldn't have an air force, but right now, their area of responsibility is too wide and they aren't exactly making the nation proud.

Give the air attack role to Army's integrated strike columns. It will cut down the communication gap and decision loop whenever cold start is activated. We must not face a situation (AGAIN) where, in the middle of a hot battle, the Army looks to the IAF to hit tiger hill and they shamelessly say "sirjee..hum LGB khareedna bhul gaye, aap humare bagair manage karlo, agli baar pakka participate karenge." (sic Kargil). Later the govt. somehow procured the LGB at 10X the price from Israel, then these genius "air warriors" dropped that bomb and patted themselves on the back for having ended the war, after 3 months and 500 soldiers were lost.

These guys can't even manage a small skirmish in Kargil without sheepishly saying that they forgot to stockpile essential ordinance, and they speak of preparing for 2-front and 10-front wars. Khana utna hi khao jitna hajam ho.

India must maintain a small force of planes under the government's strategic command for nuclear delivery. The rest must be given to Army and Navy (20 squadrons each). The IAF must be trimmed to 1/3 its current size and brought down to 10 squadrons. Their role should be limited to air dominance. Let the Army take charge of all the planes needed for land strikes. So we'll have 50 squadrons total (instead of the 42 squadrons they keep lobbying for) but not all of them should be under IAF's command to mismanage.

Last week one IAF higher-up was saying in RSTV that they want to buy F-35. Bas ye hi ek plane crash karna reh gaya hai abh. The Navy also flies planes. It doesn't have a monthly plane crash ceremony unlike the IAF.

 

[Innocent]

^ ^ Basically this ^ ^

Disband doesn't mean India shouldn't have an air force, but right now, their area of responsibility is too wide and they aren't exactly making the nation proud.

Give the air attack role to Army's integrated strike columns. It will cut down the communication gap and decision loop whenever cold start is activated. We must not face a situation (AGAIN) where, in the middle of a hot battle, the Army looks to the IAF to hit tiger hill and they shamelessly say "sirjee..hum LGB khareedna bhul gaye, aap humare bagair manage karlo, agli baar pakka participate karenge." (sic Kargil). Later the govt. somehow procured the LGB at 10X the price from Israel, then these genius "air warriors" dropped that bomb and patted themselves on the back for having ended the war, after 3 months and 500 soldiers were lost.

These guys can't even manage a small skirmish in Kargil without sheepishly saying that they forgot to stockpile essential ordinance, and they speak of preparing for 2-front and 10-front wars. Khana utna hi khao jitna hajam ho.

India must maintain a small force of planes under the government's strategic command for nuclear delivery. The rest must be given to Army and Navy (20 squadrons each). The IAF must be trimmed to 1/3 its current size and brought down to 10 squadrons. Their role should be limited to air dominance. Let the Army take charge of all the planes needed for land strikes. So we'll have 50 squadrons total (instead of the 42 squadrons they keep lobbying for) but not all of them should be under IAF's command to mismanage.

Last week one IAF higher-up was saying in RSTV that they want to buy F-35. Bas ye hi ek plane crash karna reh gaya hai abh. The Navy also flies planes. It doesn't have a monthly plane crash ceremony unlike the IAF.

For starter IAF should give attack helos to army atleast, i mean logically shouldn't they be under IA in the first place.
This also reminds me of recent Apache fiasco

 

[Haldiram]

For starter IAF should give attack helos to army atleast, i mean logically shouldn't they be under IA in the first place.
This also reminds me of recent Apache fiasco

The Army asked for the Apache and Chinooks to be handed to them, but the IAF refused. They needed those assets for their 10 front war scenario with Cambodia.

 

[Haldiram]

Army, Air Force discussing control of attack helicopters: Bipin Rawat

The Indian Army is in a tussle with the Indian Air Force over who will control the attack helicopters, including the Apaches, which the army believes is better grouped with its strike formations.

Rawat said that the air force will be getting the Apaches first. “We should expect them to come in by 2019 or 2020. Ours will follow through. We are tagging on behind the air force,” he said.

Rawat said that the army is trying to explain to the IAF on how future battles will be fought. “Because if you are going to use the Apache, it is going to be in our support... Its for the mechanised formations. So whether you operate or we operate, we can take a call.

Shameless IAF trying to deny those planes to the Army. They are trying to keep all the assets for themselves so that they get a larger % of the defense budget for fleet maintenance.

 

[Haldiram]

Why Apaches for Army, ask critics

Who are these "critics"?

IAF chews.

However, a retired senior Air Force officer countered saying the move is ill-advised. “For operational reasons, logistics and other factors, these helicopters should be with the Air Force. We built our first attack helicopter squadron with fighter pilots,” he pointed out.

“Setting up a maintenance division for just six is creating a white elephant. If the Air Force is going to do it, then the Army will get to blame the Air Force whenever it wants to,” he said.

IAF talking shit about others be like..

The retired Air Force officer pointed out that “we are not a superpower” and need to “optimise resources”.

Look who's talking.

People lobbying to induct entire squadrons of F-35 are preaching about resource shortage when the Army asked for just 6 helicopters, that too, from the govt. not from the IAF. The IAF unnecessarily poked their nose in the acquisition to keep the helicopters for themselves. Probably preparing for a WW3 scenario with Sri Lanka.

 

[bhramos]

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[Innocent]

@Haldiram
MiG-27 crashes near Jaisalmer, pilot ejects safely
Third crash within 16 days!! Foul play??

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/mi...no-casualty-reported/articleshow/67963243.cms

 

[bhramos]

Hi @ZeeNews / @HTTweets / @JioXpressNews / @QuintHindi — those aren’t MiG-27s in your tweets, those are MiG-21 / Rafale / Jaguars / MiG-29K respectively.

 

[Haldiram]

@Haldiram
MiG-27 crashes near Jaisalmer, pilot ejects safely
Third crash within 16 days!! Foul play??

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/mi...no-casualty-reported/articleshow/67963243.cms

Foul play kya hai? ye to aapna normal track record hai. An average of 12 crashes a year in the past 2 decades, and that's during peace time flying. That's 1 crash ceremony per month.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Database/Accidents/listing.php

 

[Haldiram]

Pakistani media has picked up IAF's ranting about poor quality equipment. It's playing directly into enemy's hands.


This is from the Pakistani article :

Deceased Squadron Leader Samir ‘Batman’ Abrol’s brother Sushant took to social media to call out the system over its loopholes. Trending under the hashtag #lostpilots on Twitter, he sought support of users on the micro-blogging site, imploring not to let his brother and his co-pilot Squadron Leader Siddarth Negi’s death go unnoticed.

As per his quest, it has clearly not gone unnoticed. Pakistan noticed it.

This is the effect of allowing defense units to take pot shots at the government in the media.

 

[captscooby81]

PLAAF Xian JH-7 crashed in Southern China today . both pilots lost their lives , Om shanti for the departed souls

 

[bhramos]

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[The Ultranationalist]

PLAAF Xian JH-7 crashed in Southern China today . both pilots lost their lives , Om shanti for the departed souls

View attachment 33243

So which aircraft's copy is this jh 7 plane?

 

[ezsasa]

So which aircraft's copy is this jh 7 plane?

jaguar

JH-7

 

[bhramos]

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[ezsasa]

Reuters: #Japan self-defence force says an F-35 fighter jet disappeared from radar Tuesday PM as it was flying over the Pacific Ocean, 135 km off the eastern coast of Japan