Air power on the cheap

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Indian Army Official tanking interest into Serbian Lasta Turbo Prop..

 

[lemontree]

Using an aircraft, whether turbo props or jet for COIN is seen in the same light in India. We are fighting our own people while the US is fighing foreign insurgents in foreign lands. They dont care about the collateral damage, but we need to care about it.

The attack chopper is far more versatile and acurate than a turbo prop will ever be in COIN.

Our insurgents live in villages amongst the people, like in the north-east or as the maoists in the red zones.

The turbo prop for COIN roll in India is not suitable.

 

[Ray]

In COIN, as per the Govt policy, we cannot use air power or heavy weapons and heavy weapon platforms.

Therefore, it will be required for quick reaction to ferry forces or to use as an observation and communication platform.

Ideal would be a helicopter since helicopters can land practically anywhere where there is an opening and where there is a safe funnel to fly in and take off.

 

[Tomcat]

but cant these planes used by the IAF or the Army for CAS on the Battle field ??? not in COIN ops

 

[Ray]

but cant these planes used by the IAF or the Army for CAS on the Battle field ??? not in COIN ops

No since they (ones used for CAS) are weapons platforms.

Helicopters are being used for surveillance and communications.

In COIN, it is taken that we are trying to drive sense in our own nationals who are but misguided souls.

One cannot make out a misguided Indian insurgent from a foreign sponsored foreign terrorist.

 

[HeinzGud]

FMA IA 58 Pucará

PUKARAS are combat tested in Sri Lanka and prove to be very ineffective in COIN and CAS...... the only aircraft that shown a promising performance was the venerable MiG 27. However Kfirs were also effective in large scale shock attacks but not in precision guided mission.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Ideal would be a helicopter since helicopters can land practically anywhere where there is an opening and where there is a safe funnel to fly in and take off.

Using an aircraft, whether turbo props or jet for COIN is seen in the same light in India. We are fighting our own people while the US is fighing foreign insurgents in foreign lands. They dont care about the collateral damage, but we need to care about it.

Its indeed a coin aircraft but efficient in Conventional warfare, Using PGM such as LGB from 8000ft on enemy infrastructural and key C4 components, Something Helo cannot offer, Also turbo prop have very high loitering time means more effective air-cover for troops..

Indeed Helicopter have its advantages but it cannot give what turbo prop offers is high loitering time, PGM strike capability from altitude where AAA & MANPADs cannot harm it, All this in low unit cost, Operational cost & Maintenance cost than a Turbine helicopter..

No since they (ones used for CAS) are weapons platforms

Sir, The kind of CAS turboprop offers is similar to a Jet in term of LGB..

PUKARAS are combat tested in Sri Lanka and prove to be very ineffective in COIN and CAS...... the only aircraft that shown a promising performance was the venerable MiG 27. However Kfirs were also effective in large scale shock attacks but not in precision guided mission.

Pukaras are excellent Aircrafts, Given how the are used, flying them within AAA range or MANPADs is not advisable but good against Infantry troops and vehicle in open, Pucaras are not known to carry LGB, But if asked they can be modified for the costumer..

 

[HeinzGud]

I'd prefer SU 25 for any COIN or CAS environment generally!!!

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Mate your View is Ok, But this is wrong thread..

The topic we have here is Cheap, Reliable and rugged Effective CAS Platform all in Low Budget..

 

[HeinzGud]

self delete!

 

[lemontree]

Its indeed a coin aircraft but efficient in Conventional warfare, Using PGM such as LGB from 8000ft on enemy infrastructural and key C4 components, Something Helo cannot offer, Also turbo prop have very high loitering time means more effective air-cover for troops..

Kunal,
Sure, but these aircraft would need protection from enemy fighters. Own fighter escort jets will be too fast for the turbo props to keep up with them.
It makes more sense to use current figter bombers to carry out PGM strikes.

Indeed Helicopter have its advantages but it cannot give what turbo prop offers is high loitering time, PGM strike capability from altitude where AAA & MANPADs cannot harm it, All this in low unit cost, Operational cost & Maintenance cost than a Turbine helicopter..

Agreed, and these tubor prop platforms offer a good CAS option to small countries in Africa or maybe South America.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Kunal,
Sure, but these aircraft would need protection from enemy fighters. Own fighter escort jets will be too fast for the turbo props to keep up with them.It makes more sense to use current figter bombers to carry out PGM strikes.Agreed, and these tubor prop platforms offer a good CAS option to small countries in Africa or maybe South America.

Going a little off-topic but related, Sir, These Turbo-props operate under Air-force cover if that is required, But let say these Turbo-props are not under Air-force but Army Aviation giving the field commander it own limited Air-power in quick reaction time mode rather wait for MOD approval for use of Air-force and Air-force paper work, Turbo-prop is a good option Army can have with little to spend on and getting alot from the platform in quick and precious, Almost from anywhere is plain..

Turbo-prop have some advantages over Jets..

1. It have more loitering time than a Jet
2. Its operational cost are lot lesser than a Jet
3. It can fly form short unprepared runways with full payloads, the control tower can be a simple Tent.





But the Main topic we have here is the advantages of Turbo-prop over Jets as well as Helicopters..

 

[lemontree]

Going a little off-topic but related, Sir, These Turbo-props operate under Air-force cover if that is required, But let say these Turbo-props are not under Air-force but Army Aviation giving the field commander it own limited Air-power in quick reaction time mode rather wait for MOD approval for use of Air-force and Air-force paper work, Turbo-prop is a good option Army can have with little to spend on and getting alot from the platform in quick and precious, Almost from anywhere is plain..

Turbo-prop have some advantages over Jets..

1. It have more loitering time than a Jet
2. Its operational cost are lot lesser than a Jet
3. It can fly form short unprepared runways with full payloads, the control tower can be a simple Tent.

In a way turbo props will be a good asset in the hands on an Army Cdr in Rajasthan/ Rann of Kutch. It will give his corps cdrs quick CAS capability.

 

[Nirvana]

OV-10 Bronco

Some 2 years back - http://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...arting-ov-10-production-after-23-year-321730/

Phillippine's AF Variant with Advanced cockpit and HUD

 

[Nirvana]

 

[Nirvana]

TAI Hürkuş

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[Nirvana]

^^ ?? which aircraft is this ?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

^^ ?? which aircraft is this ?

Super Tucanos..