Air France jet with 228 missing off Brazilian Coast

Sridhar

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Automatic message from jet

Chief Air France spokesman Francois Brousse said 'it is possible' the plane was hit by lightning, but aviation experts expressed doubt that a bolt of lightning was enough to bring the plane down.

Air France Flight 447, a 4-year-old Airbus A330, left Rio Sunday night with 216 passengers and 12 crew members on board, said company spokeswoman Brigitte Barrand.

The plane indicated it was still flying normally more than three hours later as it left Brazil radar contact, beyond the Fernando de Noronha archipelago, at 10:48 local time (0148 GMT, 9:48 p.m. EDT). It was flying at 35,000 feet (10,670 meters) and traveling at 522 mph (840 kph).

About a half-hour later, the plane 'crossed through a thunderous zone with strong turbulence.' It sent an automatic message fourteen minutes later at 0214 GMT (10:14 pm EDT Sunday) reporting electrical failure and a loss of cabin pressure.

Air France told Brazilian authorities the last information they heard was that automated message, reporting a technical problem before the plane reached a monitoring station near the Cape Verde islands. Brazilian, African, Spanish and French air traffic controllers tried in vain to establish contact with the plane, the company said.

Sify News - Air France plane with 228 people disappears over Atlantic Image Gallery
 

Sridhar

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Missing plane hit by multiple technical failures: Air France
2009-06-02 01:00:00
Last Updated: 2009-06-02 02:07:06

Paris: A missing Air France passenger jet with 228 people on board suffered multiple technical failures before crashing into the Atlantic, the airline's chief executive said on Monday.

"A succession of a dozen technical messages" sent by theaircraft around 0215 GMT (0745 hrs IST) showed that "several electrical systems had broken down" which caused a "totally unprecedented situation in the plane," said Pierre-Henry Gourgeon.

"It is probable that it was shortly after these messages that the impact in the Atlantic came," he told reporters at Charles de Gaulle airport in Paris where the flight from Riode Janeiro was meant to land on Monday.

Gourgeon said that military planes had narrowed down their search area to a zone of a few dozen nautical miles half-way between Brazil and west Africa.

The search operation could be aided by the Airbus A 330's Argos beacons which will emit signals for several days, he said. Earlier, however, the French space studies agency said they had not picked up any signals from the beacon.

Earlier Monday, Air France said the plane had probably been struck by lightning and suffered an electrics failure asit flew through a fierce storm.

Missing plane hit by multiple technical failures: Air France
 

Daredevil

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Brazil sights possible plane wreckage in Atlantic

Tue Jun 2, 2009 8:48am EDT
RIO DE JANEIRO (Reuters) - Brazilian military planes have sighted wreckage 400 miles off the South American country's northern coast that could be part of an Air France plane that went missing on Sunday night, Brazil's air force said on Tuesday.

The wreckage, which has still not been confirmed to be parts from Air France flight 447, includes metallic objects and plane seats, an air force spokesman said in a televised statement.

Brazil sights possible plane wreckage in Atlantic | International | Reuters
 

ZOOM

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Very Tragic Incident indeed. Air france Jet passengers may rest in a peace and my sympthy for their family and friends who lost their beloved one.

This fatal Crash serve us very useful lesson in Aviation Accident, since over the months Mumbai Airport has become a sight to watch out for, where Passangers jet of our Domestic Airlines are brushing away from some fatal accident, mainly on account of Human errors.
 

S.A.T.A

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I think with Aircraft's becoming bigger,its time they started seriously considering providing aircraft's with safety parachutes and train some of the aircrews in the methods of strapping passengers on to safety chutes and get them off the plane.its incredible to think that passengers should lose their lives because the plane is going down.
 

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I think with Aircraft's becoming bigger,its time they started seriously considering providing aircraft's with safety parachutes and train some of the aircrews in the methods of strapping passengers on to safety chutes and get them off the plane.its incredible to think that passengers should lose their lives because the plane is going down.
Cant their be a method such that a parachute can cover entire plane? like one big parachute, so that the plane come crashes less forcefully?
Then what would be cheaper, giving a parachute to every passenger or one big parachute for entire plane?
 

Sridhar

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Cant their be a method such that a parachute can cover entire plane? like one big parachute, so that the plane come crashes less forcefully?
Then what would be cheaper, giving a parachute to every passenger or one big parachute for entire plane?
Such a big parachute may need mechanical/electrical systems to activate which again may fail. If there is any blast the parachute is also going to burn/blown into pieces.

If not there won't have been ejection seats for military jets .

After there is no power all planes become gliders and can cruise to long distances before crashing.
 

johnee

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Such a big parachute may need mechanical/electrical systems to activate which again may fail. If there is any blast the parachute is also going to burn/blown into pieces.

If not there won't have been ejection seats for military jets .

After there is no power all planes become gliders and can cruise to long distances before crashing.
but speed could be the difference between military jets and civil planes, no? Also, jets are more complex IMVHO. But are you saying that the idea is not feasible at all?

PS: I am weak in avionics, so sorry if my questions are too naive or silly.:bye:
 

Sridhar

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but speed could be the difference between military jets and civil planes, no? Also, jets are more complex IMVHO. But are you saying that the idea is not feasible at all?

PS: I am weak in avionics, so sorry if my questions are too naive or silly.:bye:
I meant to say that individual parachutes are more feasible than a big parachute for the whole plane if not ejection seats.

PS : Don't worry, I am also a Arm Chair General.
 

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Debris confirms crash of Air France Flight 447

By FEDERICO ESCHER and ALAN CLENDENNING, Associated Press Writers Federico Escher And Alan Clendenning, Associated Press Writers – Tue Jun 2, 7:37 pm ET

FERNANDO DE NORONHA, Brazil – An airplane seat, a fuel slick and pieces of white debris scattered over three miles of open ocean marked the site in the mid-Atlantic Tuesday where Air France Flight 447 plunged to its doom, Brazil's defense minister said.

Brazilian military pilots spotted the wreckage, sad reminders bobbing on waves, in the ocean 400 miles northeast of these islands off Brazil's coast. The plane carrying 228 people vanished Sunday about four hours into its flight from Rio de Janeiro to Paris.

"I can confirm that the five kilometers of debris are those of the Air France plane," Defense Minister Nelson Jobim told reporters at a hushed press conference in Rio. He said no bodies had been found and there was no sign of life.

The effort to recover the debris and locate the all-important black box recorders, which emit signals for only 30 days, is expected to be exceedingly challenging.

"We are in a race against the clock in extremely difficult weather conditions and in a zone where depths reach up to 7,000 meters (22,966 feet)," French Prime Minister Francois Fillon told lawmakers in parliament Tuesday .

Brazilian military pilots first spotted the floating debris early Tuesday in two areas about 35 miles (60 kilometers) apart, said Air Force spokesman Jorge Amaral. The area is not far off the flight path of Flight 447.

Jobim said the main debris field was found near where the initial signs were spotted.

The cause of the crash will not be known until the black boxes are recovered — which could take days or weeks. But weather and aviation experts are focusing on the possibility of a collision with a brutal storm that sent winds of 100 mph straight into the airliner's path.

"The airplane was flying at 500 mph northeast and the air is coming at them at 100 mph," said AccuWeather.com expert senior meteorologist Henry Margusity. "That probably started the process that ended up in some catastrophic failure of the airplane."

Towering Atlantic storms are common this time of year near the equator — an area known as the intertropical convergence zone. "That's where the northeast trade winds meet the southeast trade winds — its the meeting place of the southern hemisphere and the northern hemisphere's weather," said Margusity.

But several veteran pilots of big airliners said it was extremely unlikely that Flight 447's crew intended to punch through a killer storm.

"Nobody in their right mind would ever go through a thunderstorm," said Tim Meldahl, a captain for a major U.S. airline who has flown internationally for 26 years, including more than 3,000 hours on the same A330 jetliner.

Pilots often work their way through bands of storms, watching for lightning flashing through clouds ahead and maneuvering around them, he said.

"They may have been sitting there thinking we can weave our way through this stuff," Meldahl said. "If they were trying to lace their way in and out of these things, they could have been caught by an updraft."

The same violent weather that might have led to the crash also could impede recovery efforts.

"Anyone who is going there to try to salvage this airplane within the next couple of months will have to deal with these big thunderstorms coming through on an almost daily basis," Margusity said. "You're talking about a monumental salvage effort."

Remotely controlled submersible crafts will have to be used to recover wreckage settling so far beneath the ocean's surface. France dispatched a research ship equipped with unmanned submarines that can explore as deeply as 19,600 feet (6,000 meters).

A U.S. Navy P-3C Orion surveillance plane — which can fly low over the ocean for 12 hours at a time and has radar and sonar designed to track submarines underwater — and a French AWACS radar plane are joining the operation.

France also has three military patrol aircraft flying over the central Atlantic, two commercial ships reached the floating debris, and Brazilian navy ships were en route.

Even at great underwater pressure, the black boxes "can survive indefinitely almost. They're very rugged and sophisticated, virtually indestructible," said Bill Voss, president and CEO of the Flight Safety Foundation in Alexandria, Va.

"I would expect they'll dedicate the rather substantial resources of the French navy to this," Voss added. "I've got to figure this will go quickly. I'm hoping they'll have stuff up in a month, if not just a few weeks."

Rescuers were still scanning a vast sweep of ocean. If no survivors are found, it would be the world's worst civil aviation disaster since the November 2001 crash of an American Airlines jetliner in the New York City borough of Queens that killed 265 people.

Investigators have few clues to help explain what brought the Airbus A330 down. The crew made no distress call before the crash, but the plane's system sent an automatic message just before it disappeared, reporting lost cabin pressure and electrical failure.

Brazilian officials described a three-mile strip of wreckage, and have refused to draw any conclusions about what that pattern means. But Jack Casey, an aviation safety consultant in Washington, D.C., and former accident investigator for airlines and aircraft manufacturers, said it could indicate the Air France jetliner came apart before it hit the water.

A debris field of that length that is strung out in a rough line rather than in a circle, especially when an airplane comes down from a high altitude, "typically indicates it didn't come down in one piece," Casey said. "But it doesn't have to be a jillion little pieces. It can come down in three or four main pieces, and then the ocean drift takes care of the rest."

Casey cautioned it's possible, although less likely, that the plane did not break apart and spread of the debris field is due entirely to ocean drift. Since the disaster happened in violent weather, thunderstorms and deep ocean swells could have scattered the debris during the 32 hours that passed before it was spotted on Tuesday.

"The big thing to understand right now is we don't know," said Casey, chief operation officer of Safety Operating Systems LLB. "These are tough airplanes. They don't just come apart."

Debris confirms crash of Air France Flight 447 - Yahoo! News
 

Sridhar

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Air France Jet May have Encountered 100 mph Updrafts
Air France Jet May have Encountered 100 mph Updrafts

AccuWeather.com reports after extensive research into the weather that may have affected the Air France Airbus A330 on Sunday evening, it is believed that the plane flew into thunderstorms, and the updrafts or turbulence associated with those storms in addition to lightning may have played a role.

The projected flight path of flight 447 took the aircraft near Sao Luis, Brazil, where it may have first encountered a thunderstorm. Later in the flight, the plane appears to have flown into or near a large cluster thunderstorms that were in the development stages northeast of Fernando De Noronha, which is located off Brazil's northern coast, and along the Intertropical Convergence Zone (ITCZ), the belt of low pressure that surrounds the Earth at the equator.

Based on weather information from Fernando De Noronha, the updrafts associated with the thunderstorms may have reached up to 100 mph. Such an updraft would lead to severe turbulence for any aircraft. In addition, the storms were towering up to 50,000 feet and would have been producing lightning. The Air France plane would have encountered these stormy conditions, which could have resulted in either some structural failure or electrical failure as noted in the communications between the Airplane and Air France headquarters.

Based on satellite information, the Air France flight had little chance of going around the storms given that they stretched for over 400 miles and were developing along the flight path. The airplane was flying at cruising altitude of 35,000 feet. With the updrafts pushing the storms up to 50,000 feet, the plane had to fly through the storms and not over them.

Despite the presence of the storms Sunday evening, the only lightning detected along the flight path was near Sao Luis, Brazil. Lightning strikes were not being detected with the storms northeast of Fernando De Noronha and along the ITCZ at the time.

According to Brazilian aviation officials, wreckage that has been found in the Atlantic Ocean about 400 miles off the northern coast of Brazil could be from the Air France aircraft. The debris sighted includes metallic objects and plane seats. This wreckage still hasn't been confirmed as being part of the Air France jet.

Tropical thunderstorms and the lightning patterns generated by them are different from storms that typically occur over the United States. Studies have shown that the top region of tropical thunderstorms is highly charged and more conducive to lightning, which indicates that an airplane flying near the top of a tropical thunderstorm could be more susceptible to a lightning strike. Tropical thunderstorms are also notorious for producing frequent cloud-to-cloud, as well as cloud-to-air lightning.

Weather Analysis: Air France Jet May have Encountered 100 mph Updrafts
 

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More Air France debris found, but no bodies
4 Jun 2009, 1111 hrs IST, IANS
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SAO PAULO/PARIS: Despite intensive search, Brazil's air force and navy have found no trace of any of the 228 people on board the Air France plane
that vanished in a mysterious plunge into a rough and dangerous section of the Atlantic Ocean three days ago.

The air force on Wednesday found new debris and a long oil trace in the crash region about 1,200 km north-east of Brazil's mainland.

"No bodies or survivors have been found," Brazil's defence minister Nelson Jobim said on Wednesday evening at a press conference in Brasilia.

It is seen as next to impossible that any of the passengers or crew survived the crash, even as experts raised the possibility the Airbus A220-200 had disintegrated in mid-air.

Brazil, from where Air France flight 447 took off, is in the midst of three days of official mourning. French President Nicolas Sarkozy joined other dignitaries on Wednesday at a multi-denominational service at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris commemorating the victims.

Paris was the destination of the ill-fated flight.

The most urgent focus of the search was finding the two black boxes mandatory on every large plane: a flight data recorder and a cockpit voice recorder, which are essential in helping investigators in the painstaking search for the cause of a plane crash.

"We have to find the black boxes," said Paul-Louis Arslanian, director of France's Office of Accident Investigations and Analyses (BEA), in Paris. The BEA is leading the investigation.

US accident inspectors will also get involved since the engine was built by General Electric and some of the instruments were made by Honeywell, according to US media reports.

"This aviation catastrophe is the worst this country has ever suffered," Arslanian said in Paris. "We cannot allow ourselves to speculate. We must verify everything."

After the Brazilian air force searched Tuesday and Wednesday over tens of thousands of square kilometres of ocean, the Brazilian Navy was expected to concentrate Thursday on a 230 sq km defined zone near the Saint Peter and Saint Paul Islets, a small, uninhabited archipelago that is home to a Brazilian Navy scientific station.

"There is no doubt that the crash site is in this place," Jobim said.

Recovery workers face difficult challenges, with strong currents and uneven topography in the region, where the Atlantic plunges to a depth of 4,000 metres and has spiking underwater mountain peaks.

France has sent a vessel carrying diving equipment that can reach 6,000 metres down.

Jobim said the oil traces on the water would tend to exclude an on-board explosion as the cause of the accident. "When there are oil traces, that's because the oil was not burnt up," he said.

The air force found a piece of debris on Wednesday that measured 7 metres in length, possibly a piece of the wing, officials said.

German aviation expert Heinrich Grossbongardt, analysing sparse details provided by Air France, gave an account suggesting several minutes of severe technical problems by the Airbus 330-200 before it crashed.

In an interview with DPA, Grossbongardt described a four-minute time span between 0210 and 0214 GMT Monday in which the A330 plane apparently experienced severe technical problems before all contact was lost.

At 0210, the plane's system reported that the crew had turned off the automatic pilot in order to fly the plane manually."Then, for a span of two to three minutes, there was a flood of malfunction messages: the navigation equipment had collapsed, the image on the onboard monitors was gone, and other things," Grossbongardt said.

The last information sent was at 0214 GMT: "The cabin pressure had dropped."

"That was the last report that was automatically transmitted from the airplane via satellite to company headquarters," he said.

Grossbongardt said the sequence of events also spoke against a mid-air bombing. Four minutes between the shut down of the auto pilot to the drop of cabin pressure "is a very long time. That means that the pilots were trying to get control of the problem".

He also ruled out a lightning strike, saying: "A lightning strike does not bring down any plane of this size from the sky."

The 228 people on board were from 32 countries, including 72 French, 60 Brazilians and 26 Germans.
http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/cu...-missing-off-brazilian-coast-4.html#post23629
 

Mohan

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RIP. may god give strength to absorb the great loss of their loved ones.
 

K Factor

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RIP, all unfortunate souls on board. :(
 

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I pray to almighty may give soul to rest in peace and my heart goes to the victims family, and I can feel the pain they are suffering.
 

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UPDATE 3-Doomed Air France plane hit sea intact -investigators | Markets | Markets News | Reuters

UPDATE 3-Doomed Air France plane hit sea intact -investigators

Thu Jul 2, 2009 12:52pm EDT

(Adds quotes, details)

By Tim Hepher

PARIS, July 2 (Reuters) - The Air France (AIRF.PA) plane that crashed into the Atlantic last month hit the water intact and at high speed but was missing for six hours before an emergency was declared, French investigators said on Thursday.

Evidence from wreckage indicates the plane was broken apart by impact with the water, which it struck facing forwards.

"The plane was not destroyed while it was in flight. It seems to have hit the surface of the water in the direction of flight and with a strong vertical acceleration," said Alain Bouillard, who is leading the investigation on behalf of France's BEA air accident board.

A food galley was found with its shelves compressed towards its base, the floor of a crew rest area was deformed and the tail fin was wrenched off the fuselage -- all in ways that suggest a violent collision with the ocean, officials said.

The cause of the crash is still not known.

Bouillard said control of the flight was supposed to have passed from air traffic controllers in Brazil to their counterparts in Senegal, but that never happened.

He said the pilots of flight AF 447 tried three times to connect to the Senegalese capital Dakar by satellite without success.

It was not until 0830 GMT, more than six hours after a flurry of error messages from the plane's electronic systems, that the plane was officially declared missing by Spain whose airspace it was due to have crossed en route to France.

Asked whether the alleged air traffic fumble may have delayed the search operation, Bouillard said, "It is one of the subjects of our investigation: why so much time elapsed between the last radio contact and declaration of an emergency."

COORDINATION

Aviation officials say it is not uncommon for planes to be out of reach temporarily while crossing the stormy expanse of ocean where the jet crashed, killing all 228 people on board.

But a Brazilian official denied local controllers had failed to hand over responsibility for the aircraft to Senegal.

"The alert that there had probably been an accident was issued by Madrid. Madrid issued that alert because the plane did not reach its airspace, but before that (the plane) had to pass through Dakar. Why was that alert not issued earlier?," Brazilian Air Force Spokesman Henry Munhoz said.

"The BEA made a preliminary interpretation that possibly Brazil did not transfer control of the flight to Dakar, but this did in fact happen. We have a transcript of it, which was even sent to the BEA. We have information that Dakar did receive that transfer," he told Reuters.

BEA officials said Brazil had sent a "coordination message" advising basic details of the plane's progress but did not send a second message formally transferring control of the aircraft.

The contrasting accounts are the second sign of friction in the aftermath of the world's worst air crash in eight years.

The BEA also reiterated unease that France had not yet been granted access to autopsy reports on bodies taken to Brazil and said these would provide helpful clues in the investigation.

Bouillard said the search for the flight recorders, or black boxes, from the Airbus A330 aircraft would continue until July 10. The recorders emit a signal for around 30 days.

After that, France will continue to probe the seabed with remote sonars until August 15.

Despite the disaster, investigators said they did not see any wider concerns that would indicate the need to ground Airbus A330 aircraft.

Speculation has focused on incoherent speed readings provided by the plane's speed sensors, or pitot tubes, which may have disrupted other systems.

Several problems with A330 speed sensors have been reported, including two in the United States recently, but authorities say none has so far led to a significant loss of altitude.

Families of the Air France victims said on Thursday they wanted more information on the error messages sent by the plane in the last minutes of its flight. (Additional reporting by Clement Guillou and Pedro Fonseca in Rio de Janeiro) (Editing by Michael Roddy)
 

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