Air force gets US planes minus security net

arps

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I am thinking thats why I am supporting it . you need to take things as it comes. Why would USA allow India to upgrade the weapons using its own or third party subsystems. Once we buy any system we will be fully depenedent on USA for any small modification and will be charged a lot. It should not be legally binding on us . We should be free to choose our upgrades .
U dont think that our product will be more advance than USA in near future.US has billions of dollars investment in R&D every year.So they have always edge in miles away.But even their upgrade will be less costly than anything FRANCE will offer.Just Because US will utilize them in so many numbers that ultimately it will be relatively cheaper.And why the IAF would not go for the best available tech?And And dont forget MMRCA is just 1/5th of our total force. So let all the indigenous and 3rd party products use on the rest 4/5th. And get the 1/5th faster now.
 

SHASH2K2

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U dont think that our product will be more advance than USA in near future.US has billions of dollars investment in R&D every year.So they have always edge in miles away.But even their upgrade will be less costly than anything FRANCE will offer.Just Because US will utilize them in so many numbers that ultimately it will be relatively cheaper.And why the IAF would not go for the best available tech?And And dont forget MMRCA is just 1/5th of our total force. So let all the indigenous and 3rd party products use on the rest 4/5th. And get the 1/5th faster now.
In same way F 35 has become cheaper and cheaper with each passing day ?
Also once we have Our FGFA production active we will have to access some good technologies. We donot need best system in entire world we need sometrhing thats better than our neighbors systems. If we can get such systems why it should be mandatory to go for only USA made products ?
 

arps

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That's bull crap, why don't we make our own? This here is begging like Pakistan (only they do for money, we do for equipment). One day when our government changes (and their policies), there's no surety that the US won't impost sanctions on India AGAIN.

What're we going to do then?
Cool down mate..Wheather its NDA or UPA, all will be pro american.Democrate or republican all will be pro Indian.Foreign policy doesnt change a day.Unlike us these ppl think years ahead.The geo political scenarios.
 

arps

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In same way F 35 has become cheaper and cheaper with each passing day ?
Also once we have Our FGFA production active we will have to access some good technologies. We donot need best system in entire world we need sometrhing thats better than our neighbors systems. If we can get such systems why it should be mandatory to go for only USA made products ?
BECAUSE F18SH comes cheaper than RAFALE or EUROFIGHTER with reliable timely delivery and cheaper weapons than them.
 

SHASH2K2

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BECAUSE F18SH comes cheaper than RAFALE or EUROFIGHTER with reliable timely delivery and cheaper weapons than them.
It looks cheaper as of now. If we donot sign Cismoa and EULA these planes will be useless. and If we sign it we will fall in USA trap and then we will come to know the actual cost of all these weapons. We need to get approvals for almost everything for USA .
 

arps

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It looks cheaper as of now. If we donot sign Cismoa and EULA these planes will be useless. and If we sign it we will fall in USA trap and then we will come to know the actual cost of all these weapons. We need to get approvals for almost everything for USA .
Those ppl in IAF and boeing knows much better than u ..what to sign..how much will be the impact and what are the alternatives for that.so cool down.
 

SHASH2K2

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Those ppl in IAF and boeing knows much better than u ..what to sign..how much will be the impact and what are the alternatives for that.so cool down.
IAF and people know better than you as well ? Where from the hell you got the information about what IAF wants and why ? DO you have a mole there ? Please share that information. we will all trust your information and wisdom . We are all discussing our opinion. Nobody knows whats there is actual report .
 

luckyy

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Those ppl in IAF and boeing knows much better than u ..what to sign..how much will be the impact and what are the alternatives for that.so cool down.
you must be not aware of the fect that at first IAF didn't send the RFI to boeying , it was only though deplomatic pressure that F-18 gets into mmrca compition...
 

arps

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IAF and people know better than you as well ? Where from the hell you got the information about what IAF wants and why ? DO you have a mole there ? Please share that information. we will all trust your information and wisdom . We are all discussing our opinion. Nobody knows whats there is actual report .
Cool down mate..I just said,if they select F18SH then will have already factored out these agreements.
 

arps

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you must be not aware of the fect that at first IAF didn't send the RFI to boeying , it was only though deplomatic pressure that F-18 gets into mmrca compition...
They think that F18SH dont worth for a RFI also :).then in this case they should give very bad feedback now.Actually I think F18SH was not exported before that.So IAF was not sure if USA will give their new F18SH for export.
 

nrj

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It will be decade before Indian DPSUs & private companies will develop & integrate the higher end electronics & other critical systems on these various platforms being procured. But MOD must have some plan in mind. Lets see what happens but this is a prolonged process. Matching the US avionics & critical systems is not any easy or in near sight.
 

Rahul Singh

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but in practical India don't have the capability to upgrade them better than what original manufacturer made.We cant even make close to that.So why to cry for that? While upgrading we can ask them to change it accordingly.
Yes we do not have it now but that doesn't mean we can't get it upgraded by an aerospace firm other than american. But here comes catch, will US allow us to allow one who is not american to touch C-130Js? Correct me if i'm wrong, but EUMA doesn't allow that. So where is the so called full autonomy on this aircrafts? Sorry to say, we are buying nothing but a bone in spite of knowing that it will rest in our neck.

While upgrading we can ask them to change it accordingly.
Wo Wo Wo. They are asking us to sign CISMOA now in order to get those equipments, why you think they will not ask then when we will ask them to upgrade it?
 

arps

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Yes we do not have it now but that doesn't mean we can't get it upgraded by an aerospace firm other than american. But here comes catch, will US allow us to allow one who is not american to touch C-130Js? Correct me if i'm wrong, but EUMA doesn't allow that. So where is the so called full autonomy on this aircrafts? Sorry to say, we are buying nothing but a bone in spite of knowing that it will rest in our neck.

Wo Wo Wo. They are asking us to sign CISMOA now in order to get those equipments, why you think they will not ask then when we will ask them to upgrade it?
we are already have alternative 3rd party source for the communication equipment for them.
 

Rahul Singh

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we are already have alternative 3rd party source for the communication equipment for them.
And who is the source? BTW how much liberty do we have that we can even allow Russians to put their stuffs on C-130J?
 

arps

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And who is the source? BTW how much liberty do we have that we can even allow Russians to put their stuffs on C-130J?
Plz check the report..
"We are aware that some of the equipment we desire may not be available. But it is up to us to use the platform the way we want to with modifications once we have it," a senior air force officer told The Telegraph."
 

SATISH

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Plz check the report..
"We are aware that some of the equipment we desire may not be available. But it is up to us to use the platform the way we want to with modifications once we have it," a senior air force officer told The Telegraph."
Perhaps he is talking about the dataling developed by Israel on the lines of the NATO datalink.
 

dineshchaturvedi

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I want to know what specific issue we have with signing CISMOA, I am getting this feeling that we are getting over paranoid. Even Rafael has US system and that might also means signing the CISMOA. If we do that for Rafael we will look like fools. IMO we did made wrong choice, unless there is something I am missing.
 

dineshchaturvedi

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" End-User Monitoring Arrangement " Signing this one is more shameful than CISMOA. I mean what so tactical US offers that will require us to bow down to this level that one which is our's is still not ours. It is far more better to pay more but have complete control on acquired hardware. One can justify proposed acquisition of C-17s on payload capacity but how we will one justify acquisition of C-130? A modernized An-32 offers everything what C-130 can; be it landing on unprepared muddy air fields or any.
Rahul USA has the best technology and they want to make sure others are not Sharing them with others and hence they want EULA, they have valid argument on that. I have heard unless they get suspicious about your activities it is mere formality. If we are not doing anything wrong why we are getting paranoid?
 

Rahul Singh

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Plz check the report..
"We are aware that some of the equipment we desire may not be available. But it is up to us to use the platform the way we want to with modifications once we have it," a senior air force officer told The Telegraph."
My question was and still is, will US allow us to carry out modifications in made in USA products? I know what is written but we also know that now US is not allowing even Israel to have their own in hardware they bought from USA.
 

Rahul Singh

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Rahul USA has the best technology and they want to make sure others are not Sharing them with others and hence they want EULA, they have valid argument on that. I have heard unless they get suspicious about your activities it is mere formality. If we are not doing anything wrong why we are getting paranoid?
Every one who buys something signs some kind of EULA. But this american EULA is somewhat different and dictates gravity of modification one can or can't. To us it is insulting as gives impression that "I don't believe you".
 

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