Air Combat in Syria

apple

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USAF have delivered aerial targets for VKS :)
:doh: Put it back it your pants...

Russia has, what 4 fighter planes in theatre while the west has, maybe, a hundred.

Since when have Russian planes been a legitimate threat to any modern western aircraft? 1950 in Korea, sort of, in Vietnam in 1965?
 

gadeshi

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:doh: Put it back it your pants...
Russia has, what 4 fighter planes in theatre while the west has, maybe, a hundred.
Since when have Russian planes been a legitimate threat to any modern western aircraft? 1950 in Korea, sort of, in Vietnam in 1965?
So you can find and compare flight performance packages and radar/sensors capabilities of F-15C and Su-30SM to convince I'm right. And also find an official AIM-120 performance diagram to compare it to R-27ER/EP (not even R-77-1 :) ) to not to write stupid things here.
Numbers can be increased in no time (as we all could see at the operation start), it's not relevant.
 

apple

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:doh: Put it back it your pants...

Russia has, what 4 fighter planes in theatre while the west has, maybe, a hundred.

Since when have Russian planes been a legitimate threat to any modern western aircraft? 1950 in Korea, sort of, in Vietnam in 1965?
Sure, always sunny all the time in Russia and there's plenty of bread and even butter.

Political will, direction and unity in the west may be problematic (/pretty crap and quite stupid) but our militaries don't half ass it. When we go somewhere, we go in strength and we go to win.

You're not even Australia's league, don't go comparing yourself to America, it's sad and pathetic.

http://www.defence.gov.au/Operations/Okra/ATG.asp

September
Aircraft
Sorties Hours
Munitions/Fuel (lbs)
E7 10 116 N/A
KC-30 32 262 2,583,300
F/A 18A 78 597 39

Do you know what an E7 is? Your Su-30 pilots do and they are not going to be starting any trouble knowing that if the excrement hits the fans, we go to another level with which you can't compete and your pilots will never see the plane that kills them.

You can talk all you want but you're not in our league, or even playing the same sport.
 

gadeshi

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Sure, always sunny all the time in Russia and there's plenty of bread and even butter.

Political will, direction and unity in the west may be problematic (/pretty crap and quite stupid) but our militaries don't half ass it. When we go somewhere, we go in strength and we go to win.

You're not even Australia's league, don't go comparing yourself to America, it's sad and pathetic.

http://www.defence.gov.au/Operations/Okra/ATG.asp

September
Aircraft
Sorties Hours
Munitions/Fuel (lbs)
E7 10 116 N/A
KC-30 32 262 2,583,300
F/A 18A 78 597 39

Do you know what an E7 is? Your Su-30 pilots do and they are not going to be starting any trouble knowing that if the excrement hits the fans, we go to another level with which you can't compete and your pilots will never see the plane that kills them.

You can talk all you want but you're not in our league, or even playing the same sport.
Yeah, we all have seen how you have "won" in Iraq, Lybia and Afganistan :)

E-7 or not E-7 is irrelevant.
Why do you stupidly believe that you will have support forces in the conflict, but Russia will not have them?
Why so stupid?

F/A-18A ... It's not even funny. They are sitting ducks with their poor flight package and useless primitive sensors.
Why to put your posts here if they are inceadibly stupid?
 

Bahamut

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Sure, always sunny all the time in Russia and there's plenty of bread and even butter.

Political will, direction and unity in the west may be problematic (/pretty crap and quite stupid) but our militaries don't half ass it. When we go somewhere, we go in strength and we go to win.

You're not even Australia's league, don't go comparing yourself to America, it's sad and pathetic.

http://www.defence.gov.au/Operations/Okra/ATG.asp

September
Aircraft
Sorties Hours
Munitions/Fuel (lbs)
E7 10 116 N/A
KC-30 32 262 2,583,300
F/A 18A 78 597 39

Do you know what an E7 is? Your Su-30 pilots do and they are not going to be starting any trouble knowing that if the excrement hits the fans, we go to another level with which you can't compete and your pilots will never see the plane that kills them.

You can talk all you want but you're not in our league, or even playing the same sport.
Yes just like Vietnam,Iraq and Afghanistan:biggrin2:.Just ask any one in Afghanistan about the Russian occupation.And as for your AWACS there are missile in Russian arsenal that have a 400 km range and are meant to destroy AWACS. US lead anti ISIS campain have for one year bombed nothing but empty desert and give weapons to FSA which then join ISIS and other groups and spent 500$million to train 5 people to fight against ISIS.more bombs have been dropped on Kurds by the turks then on ISIS.
 

gadeshi

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Yeah, @apple, please learn about R-27EP and R-77-1 with hybrid active/passive seeker which can track and kill jammers or/and AWACSes using their radiation as a target source :)
 

apple

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Yeah, we all have seen how you have "won" in Iraq, Lybia and Afganistan :)

E-7 or not E-7 is irrelevant.
Why do you stupidly believe that you will have support forces in the conflict, but Russia will not have them?
Why so stupid?

F/A-18A ... It's not even funny. They are sitting ducks with their poor flight package and useless primitive sensors.
Why to put your posts here if they are inceadibly stupid?
Our militaries did their jobs in Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan. They are excellent examples of the level of military capability we can apply. Totally, mindboggling out of your league.

I know, roughly, what you have in Syria i.e. ~4 Su30's and ~24(???) Su 25's. You have no AWAC's, no refuelling planes, whether you could deploy them or not is irrelevant. You haven't and nothing I said was stupid.

F/A 18A's are funny? Don't really know how modernised the planes we current have there are and they'd be old, but I'll tell you something funny. Our first, post rise of ISIS, deployment was of brand new EA-18G Super Hornets. I'm pretty sure we only sent them to get some combat experience with the type and RAAF are pretty much exclusively operating over Iraq. But, theoretically, they would have been extremely useful if the Syrian Air Force/ air defences had done something regrettable. We've made no signs that we are going to be sending them back there now that the Russians have turned up. They are not necessary, you're not a threat to RAAF, let alone the coalition we are a part of. But, sure our planes have "a poor flight package and useless primitive sensors"

Yes just like Vietnam,Iraq and Afghanistan:biggrin2:.Just ask any one in Afghanistan about the Russian occupation.And as for your AWACS there are missile in Russian arsenal that have a 400 km range and are meant to destroy AWACS. US lead anti ISIS campain have for one year bombed nothing but empty desert and give weapons to FSA which then join ISIS and other groups and spent 500$million to train 5 people to fight against ISIS.more bombs have been dropped on Kurds by the turks then on ISIS.
Are you claiming the Russians are popular in Afghanistan? OK champ. Suspect all our equipment is designed to be able to deal with anything Russian. But sure, Russian SAM's are invincible, As for bombing sand, Vietnam (WTF???) ... you're being boring, try again.

You're entirely correct about training the Free Syrian Army. That was the stupidest idea ever and has been a disaster.

Yeah, @apple, please learn about R-27EP and R-77-1 with hybrid active/passive seeker which can track and kill jammers or/and AWACSes using their radiation as a target source :)
How am I going to learn about them? Don't care so much about air force stuff and all relevant information on equipment, and counter measures against them, are classified.
 

gadeshi

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Finnish military has done nothing nowhere.
If there will be a war your army will be a sitting duck (and all the NATO armies as well).
Only US army will be an adequate foe.

What about you...
What to say to ignoramus who don't even want to learn serious thing before say something?
 

apple

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Finnish military has done nothing nowhere.
If there will be a war your army will be a sitting duck (and all the NATO armies as well).
Only US army will be an adequate foe.

What about you...
What to say to ignoramus who don't even want to learn serious thing before say something?
I've stated many times I'm not Finnish, rather I'm Australian. Presumed you'd have remembered that.

But, I've been in Finland long enough to know it's history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/44th_Rifle_Division_(Soviet_Union)

Which part of the Ukraine are you from? The same part as the 44th. Division?

"By breaking the division into pieces along the road, after Finnish radio intelligence had confirmed that the whole division had entered the Raate road, the Finns were able to annihilate the entire unit.
Of the 44th Division's 17,000 troops, 1000 were captured and 700 escaped. The rest died."
But sure, genius, Finland's nothing, NATO is nothing, only Mother Russia stronk!
 

Bahamut

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Our militaries did their jobs in Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan. They are excellent examples of the level of military capability we can apply. Totally, mindboggling out of your league.

I know, roughly, what you have in Syria i.e. ~4 Su30's and ~24(???) Su 25's. You have no AWAC's, no refuelling planes, whether you could deploy them or not is irrelevant. You haven't and nothing I said was stupid.

F/A 18A's are funny? Don't really know how modernised the planes we current have there are and they'd be old, but I'll tell you something funny. Our first, post rise of ISIS, deployment was of brand new EA-18G Super Hornets. I'm pretty sure we only sent them to get some combat experience with the type and RAAF are pretty much exclusively operating over Iraq. But, theoretically, they would have been extremely useful if the Syrian Air Force/ air defences had done something regrettable. We've made no signs that we are going to be sending them back there now that the Russians have turned up. They are not necessary, you're not a threat to RAAF, let alone the coalition we are a part of. But, sure our planes have "a poor flight package and useless primitive sensors"



Are you claiming the Russians are popular in Afghanistan? OK champ. Suspect all our equipment is designed to be able to deal with anything Russian. But sure, Russian SAM's are invincible, As for bombing sand, Vietnam (WTF???) ... you're being boring, try again.

You're entirely correct about training the Free Syrian Army. That was the stupidest idea ever and has been a disaster.



How am I going to learn about them? Don't care so much about air force stuff and all relevant information on equipment, and counter measures against them, are classified.
I mean to say that they fraught more bravely and did more damage .The killed around 250,000 terrorist and took 15,000 casualty.Read about Battle for Hill 3234. It give a small idea what was the kind of fighting there. The present afghan was is nothing compare it .As for the bombing desert ,I meant the bombing was ineffective to stop ISIS advance in Syria and Iraq as it was not tactical but aim at targeting ISIS head but never got them in effective numbers.
 

gadeshi

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NATO has constant encreasing budgets shortages and cannot build or buy modern weapons (it's enough to track the weapons deals progress to find it out) and even to sustain an existing ones! :)
According to official NATO reports, an average battle ready rate is 30% and decreasing :)
You are nothing (an empty place) without Americans.
 

apple

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I mean to say that they fraught more bravely and did more damage .The killed around 250,000 terrorist and took 15,000 casualty.Read about Battle for Hill 3234. It give a small idea what was the kind of fighting there. The present afghan was is nothing compare it .As for the bombing desert ,I meant the bombing was ineffective to stop ISIS advance in Syria and Iraq as it was not tactical but aim at targeting ISIS head but never got them in effective numbers.
The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan isn't really a good example for the modern world. But yeah sure, they killed lots of Afghani's. I'm not really sure what you're suggesting. Russia's not deploying ground forces to Syria and the capabilities, and soldiers, of the Soviet Union are long gone.

Previous bombing of ISIS has been ineffective compared to what? The current Russian air campaign? Have the pro Syrian forces advanced an inch into ISIS territory? Thought they'd only been bombing FSA. Yes, they're strikes are co-ordinated with Syrian govt. ground forces. But that's all the Russian forces sent are capable of doing. They've only sent ground support planes, they'd struggle to identify targets away from the front line.

We bombed the hell out of ISIS outside of Kobani, during the siege there. Doing tactically strikes is far less complicated than hitting infrastructure and if there was more effective opposition to ISIS, like the Kurds in Kobani, western aircarft wouldn't use so much effort "bombing the desert".

NATO has constant encreasing budgets shortages and cannot build or buy modern weapons (it's enough to track the weapons deals progress to find it out) and even to sustain an existing ones! :)
According to official NATO reports, an average battle ready rate is 30% and decreasing :)
You are nothing (an empty place) without Americans.
Why are still talking about NATO, is that directed at me an Australian (not NATO) living in Finland(not NATO) ?

30%... wouldn't you have done military service? Did you not get taught how armed forces function. A third of units should at full strength, fully trained and be deployable, a third should at be full strength and doing advanced training preparing to be deployable and a third wont be at full strength as guys are on holiday/ doing individual training courses and wont be deployable at all as they will have also gotten all the new recruits.

Would be very, very, very surprised if the Russia armed forces doesn't have exactly the same system.
 

gadeshi

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Soviet invasion into Afganistan was successful since Kriuchkov (GRU chief of that time) has found Najibhullah president. All of the goals of those operation were achieved.
The only reason of disaster in Afganistan was Gorbachovs treason.

About the NATO: it is a paper tiger which can do nothing without American forces, and this is done by those Americans directly :) NATO is nothing more than Europe occupation tool.

All of your toy armies are just forces to guard American stores and bases on your soil and be ready for the fact that when the war will started, you will be dead defending them and Americans will replace you as a real forces.

And BTW, who will fight Russia or China in Europe? Phagots, lawyers, managers and pussy shavers?
Oh, come on! They cry when they scratch a finger.
 

apple

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Once more, for the Ukrainian who seems to misunderstand simple facts. NATO isn't "my" army nor is my home country or land of residence NATO.

Why are the Chinese coming to fight in Europe?

You're correct about the US being the major power of NATO. It also has 3-4+ other members who are all individually stronger than Russia.

As I was saying several posts ago. Russia isn't in the same league as the US. NATO's even a level further beyond you. You whining and stupidity is really quite pathetic and sad.
 

gadeshi

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Once more, for the Ukrainian who seems to misunderstand simple facts. NATO isn't "my" army nor is my home country or land of residence NATO.
Whatever. Irrelevant
Why are the Chinese coming to fight in Europe?
It is because they want to build Joint New Silk Root on deep continent land, where US cannot control traderoutes (opposite to overseas). US will occupy EU directly and openly in the case when China and Russia will cucceed to build these economic benefits and will convince EU to join and reject TTIP.
There will be a war in Europe between US, and Russia + China.

You're correct about the US being the major power of NATO. It also has 3-4+ other members who are all individually stronger than Russia.
This is the most stupid thing I ever heard bearing in mind defence budgets and those budgets effectivity, battle readiness level (75% in Russia and 15-30% in EU). And the quantity/quality parameters should be reviewed as well.

So, could you name those NATO members, who are individually stronger than Russia and reveal those params I have mentioned above? :)

As I was saying several posts ago. Russia isn't in the same league as the US. NATO's even a level further beyond you. You whining and stupidity is really quite pathetic and sad.
Evidences and numbers are everything, your empty claims and hubris are nothing.
 

jouni

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Yeah, we all have seen how you have "won" in Iraq, Lybia and Afganistan :)

E-7 or not E-7 is irrelevant.
Why do you stupidly believe that you will have support forces in the conflict, but Russia will not have them?
Why so stupid?

F/A-18A ... It's not even funny. They are sitting ducks with their poor flight package and useless primitive sensors.
Why to put your posts here if they are inceadibly stupid?
Somehow our F18s managed to get 18:1 kill ratio against Nato fighters in Frisian flag...
 

gadeshi

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Somehow our F18s managed to get 18:1 kill ratio against Nato fighters in Frisian flag...
It is doughtfully true, despite your F-18s fought with Spanish ones or some Mirage F-1s or Grippens in dogfight.
Whatever...
Your AF was in better shape than Dutch? :) Good. But you all are outnumbered and outgunned compared to Russia (don't forget the readiness rate, average flight hours per pilot, new planes percentage, ECM and network centric abilities and the other things).
 

jouni

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It is doughtfully true, despite your F-18s fought with Spanish ones or some Mirage F-1s or Grippens in dogfight.
Whatever...
Your AF was in better shape than Dutch? :) Good. But you all are outnumbered and outgunned compared to Russia (don't forget the readiness rate, average flight hours per pilot, new planes percentage, ECM and network centric abilities and the other things).
I saw a study that RuAF can only get 3:1 advantage over us and would fail to operate in our air space and suffer unsustainable losses
 

gadeshi

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I saw a study that RuAF can only get 3:1 advantage over us and would fail to operate in our air space and suffer unsustainable losses
What were your sources? Wikipedia? :)
Su-30SM matches 10 Su-27S in battle.
F/A-18A matches 0.3 Su-27 (inferior G rate, T/W ratio, poor radar, inferior maneurability and BWR combat abilities). What can you do to Su-27SM3 with Bars-R radar and optics (we don't even speak about Su-30SM or Su-35)? :)
You have no ESM/ECM capabilities of VKS even close. You have no sane AWACS (only light E-7).
You are just like a pantless white guy in a black block :)
 
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Bornubus

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What were your sources? Wikipedia? :)
Su-30SM matches 10 Su-27S in battle.
F/A-18A matches 0.3 Su-27 (inferior G rate, T/W ratio, poor radar, inferior maneurability and BWR combat abilities). What can you do to Su-27SM3 with Bars-R radar and optics (we don't even speak about Su-30SM or Su-35)? :)
You have no ESM/ECM capabilities of VKS even close. You have no sane AWACS (only light E-7).
You are just like a pantless white guy in a black block :)
What were your sources? Wikipedia? :)
Su-30SM matches 10 Su-27S in battle.
F/A-18A matches 0.3 Su-27 (inferior G rate, T/W ratio, poor radar, inferior maneurability and BWR combat abilities). What can you do to Su-27SM3 with Bars-R radar and optics (we don't even speak about Su-30SM or Su-35)? :)
You have no ESM/ECM capabilities of VKS even close. You have no sane AWACS (only light E-7).
You are just like a pantless white guy in a black block :)
Which Aircraft has the better Radar MKI or F16 BLK 52 ?
 

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