'Indian history was distorted by the British'

[KS]

'Indian history was distorted by the British' - Hindustan Times

The Aryan invasion theory was actually part of the British policy of divide and rule, French historian Michel Danino, an expert on ancient Indian history, said on Thursday on the sidelines of the Kolkata Literary Meet. Danino, who authored books such as The Lost River: On The Trail of Saraswati and Indian Culture and India's Future, blames the British for distorting Indian history and challenged the Aryan invasion theory, while maintaining that there was no actual Aryan-Dravidian divide.

"No ancient or medieval Indian text would support the Aryan invasion theory. It is genetically proven that Aryans and Dravidians belong to the same race, "said Danino, who settle in India in 1977 and has since acquired Indian citizenship.

Danino said that early Tamil literature displayed a cultural fusion with north Indian literature. Even the name of the city Madurai was influence from the ancient north Indian heritage city, Mathura, Danino claimed.

"Indians are basically a mixed breed and the mixing started as early as the Stone Age. After the Saraswati river dried up, leading to the collapse of the Indus Valley civilization, people started settling on the banks of the Ganges. This phenomenon that occurred around 2000 BC led to massive mixing up of the populace as a while has to shift its base," Danino explained.

"The Mahabharata defined ethnic groups as jatis, whereas the British brought in the term tribes to describe the same thing, thus denigrating the homogenous culture of India. Jatis were defined on ecological terms. There is a popular perception that casteism started in India since the Vedas but that is not true. There was no casteism even during the Mahabharata period," he said.

Danino also rued the fact that Indians are apathetic towards the preservation of their rich culture and heritage. "1170 sites of the ancient Harappan civilization have been identified during its mature phase. But till date only around 100 sites have been excavated. There is a fear that 90% of the sites might disappear due to expansion of urban areas or agricultural land being converted to residential high rises," Danino said.

He went on to give an example of how the archaeological Survey of India (ASI) could recover only eight kilos of Harappan gold when about 80 kilos of the same was unearthed at Mandi in Uttar Pradesh. Villagers pilfered the rest, depriving India of a useful insight into its rich heritage.

"ASI admitted to a Parliament query that 42 protected sites vanished from Delhi alone. No one noticed as land sharks went to grab the sites and construct high-rises on them," Danino said.

Historian Sanjeev Sanyal, speaking on the continuity of Indian history claimed that east European and north Indian people share genetic similarities.

 

[civfanatic]

He mentioned nothing new. And if casteism didn't exist in "Mahabharata period" (I assume he means early India in general?) where exactly did it come from? Why did the Sramanic sects emerge as explicitly anti-Brahmanic schools of thought?

 

[pmaitra]

@KS,

Your post (I know it was authored by someone else), claims that history was distorted by, . . . , whoever. Well, history is subjective, and everyone is entitled to that claim. So, whosoever writes a historical narrative, is subject to scrutiny. I am not taking away any credit from the author.

@civfanatic,

Caste system was very likely to have been solidifying in society. It must have been in the nascent state. This is my belief, and not something I can substantially back up. You might want to consider the questionnaire at the Magical Lake where Yudhishtir answers Yama, in order to revive his half-brothers. I suppose one question on "Brahman" came up because there was already a confusion about the correct interpretation of the word.

 

[Coalmine]

He mentioned nothing new. And if casteism didn't exist in "Mahabharata period" (I assume he means early India in general?) where exactly did it come from? Why did the Sramanic sects emerge as explicitly anti-Brahmanic schools of thought?

Though he explained nothing new but it should be spoken in each and every forum so that it reaches people like karunanidhi and all. People need to be made aware of this and replaced from school syllabus

 

[hello_10]

whenever you all talk about the British pigs, you all would get to know the very first facts about them as below. from where they came to India and how exactly they were in UK, before coming to India..................

I have read many articles about Western Superiority and it is regarded for the 200 years only, mainly since early to mid 19th centuries.just google and you will get any references in this regard. while i also keep a standard post to state the life style of West till 18th century, to first brain wash of those who only know what western media tells them, as below:

- just see how these pigs were rated in this world even till 18th century, as below. do you know, the biggest earing of British government in India in 19th century was through the drugs smuggling into China??????, would you like to be having this type of background, check as below:

Poverty in the Middle Ages

However in the Middle Ages poverty was common. England was basically a subsistence economy where each village made most of the things it needed and most of the population were subsistence farmers. They grew as much food as their families needed (if they were lucky).

Surprisingly, perhaps, examining Medieval skeletons shows that most people had an adequate diet, except in times of famine.

However life must have been very hard for the disabled. There were many disabled beggars in Medieval towns.

The Church tried to help the poor. The Church taught that it was a Christian duty to give to the poor. In monasteries a monk called an almoner gave alms to the poor. However in the Middle Ages fearful poverty was an inescapable part of life.

Things did improve after the Black Death of 1348-49. In England about one third of the population died. Afterwards there was a shortage of workers so wages rose. In the 15th century wage labourers were better off then in the 13th century.

A History of Poverty in Britain

see the criterion of measuring 'richness' of these pigs even till 17th/18th century as below: (based on the number of days they could eat properly )

Poverty in the 17th Century

At the end of the 17th century a writer estimated that half the population could afford to eat meat every day. In other words about 50% of the people were wealthy of at least reasonably well off . Below them about 30% of the population could afford to eat meat between 2 and 6 times a week. They were 'poor'. The bottom 20% could only eat meat once a week. They were very poor. At least part of the time they had to rely on poor relief.

A History of Poverty in Britain

=> in fact it isn't fair to compare Britain with India even till the end of 18th century. we find its more fair to compare India with whole Western Europe till the end of 18th century, by start of 19th century, as below:

GDP on PPP by 18th century

GDP of India: $90,750mil
GDP of China: $82,800mil
GDP of Western Europe: $81,213mil

List of regions by past GDP (PPP) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(this GDP estimate is based on the prices at 1820. here the "Total Western Europe" include the current 17 Eurozone nations, +Britain+Norway+Swedan etc)

even if we have a close look on the data's then we find that even by 1820, GDP of India was around $111,417mil, as compare to total GDP of Western Europe at $159,851mil as below. it may also because of the fact that Marathas lost heavy wealth during the 15 years of war with British till 1818................

List of regions by past GDP (PPP) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(this GDP estimate is based on the prices at 1820. here the "Total Western Europe" include the current 17 Eurozone nations, +Britain+Norway+Swedan etc)

Marath Empire

The Maratha Empire (Marathi: मराठा साम्राज्य Marāṭhā Sāmrājya; also transliterated Mahratta) or the Maratha Confederacy was an Indian imperial power that existed from 1674 to 1818. At its peak, the empire covered much of what would become India, encompassing a territory of over 2.8 million km².[2] The Marathas are credited for the re-establishment of Hindu rule in India.

Marathas remained the preeminent power in India until their defeat in the Second and Third Anglo-Maratha Wars (1805–1818), which left Britain in control of most of India.

Maratha Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

@KS,

Your post (I know it was authored by someone else), claims that history was distorted by, . . . , whoever. Well, history is subjective, and everyone is entitled to that claim. So, whosoever writes a historical narrative, is subject to scrutiny. I am not taking away any credit from the author.

@civfanatic,

Caste system was very likely to have been solidifying in society. It must have been in the nascent state. This is my belief, and not something I can substantially back up. You might want to consider the questionnaire at the Magical Lake where Yudhishtir answers Yama, in order to revive his half-brothers. I suppose one question on "Brahman" came up because there was already a confusion about the correct interpretation of the word.

Yes, history is subjective but genetics and other such developments have helped quash some of the ideological BS and subjectivity. For eg., AIT definitely does not hold true.

 

[hello_10]

we have few basic facts about India till 18th century as below. Below is the government website of India :ranger:

Interesting Facts about India

http://knowindia.gov.in/myindia/myindia_frame.php?id=10

India never invaded any country in her last 100000 years of history.

When many cultures were only nomadic forest dwellers over 5000 years ago, Indians established Harappan culture in Sindhu Valley (Indus Valley Civilization)

The name 'India' is derived from the River Indus, the valleys around which were the home of the early settlers. The Aryan worshippers referred to the river Indus as the Sindhu.

The Persian invaders converted it into Hindu. The name 'Hindustan' combines Sindhu and Hindu and thus refers to the land of the Hindus.

Chess was invented in India.

Algebra, Trigonometry and Calculus are studies, which originated in India.

The 'Place Value System' and the 'Decimal System' were developed in India in 100 B.C.

The World's First Granite Temple is the Brihadeswara Temple at Tanjavur, Tamil Nadu. The shikhara of the temple is made from a single 80-tonne piece of granite. This magnificent temple was built in just five years, (between 1004 AD and 1009 AD) during the reign of Rajaraja Chola.

India is the largest democracy in the world, the 7th largest Country in the world, and one of the most ancient civilizations.

The game of Snakes & Ladders was created by the 13th century poet saint Gyandev. It was originally called 'Mokshapat'. The ladders in the game represented virtues and the snakes indicated vices. The game was played with cowrie shells and dices. In time, the game underwent several modifications, but its meaning remained the same, i.e. good deeds take people to heaven and evil to a cycle of re-births.

The world's highest cricket ground is in Chail, Himachal Pradesh. Built in 1893 after leveling a hilltop, this cricket pitch is 2444 meters above sea level.

The world's first university was established in Takshila in 700 BC. More than 10,500 students from all over the world studied more than 60 subjects. The University of Nalanda built in the 4th century was one of the greatest achievements of ancient India in the field of education.

Ayurveda is the earliest school of medicine known to mankind. The Father of Medicine, Charaka, consolidated Ayurveda 2500 years ago.

India was one of the richest countries till the time of British rule in the early 17th Century. Christopher Columbus, attracted by India's wealth, had come looking for a sea route to India when he discovered America by mistake. :us:

The Art of Navigation & Navigating was born in the river Sindh over 6000 years ago. The very word Navigation is derived from the Sanskrit word 'NAVGATIH'. The word navy is also derived from the Sanskrit word 'Nou'.

Bhaskaracharya rightly calculated the time taken by the earth to orbit the Sun hundreds of years before the astronomer Smart. According to his calculation, the time taken by the Earth to orbit the Sun was 365.258756484 days.

The value of "pi" was first calculated by the Indian Mathematician Budhayana, and he explained the concept of what is known as the Pythagorean Theorem. He discovered this in the 6th century, long before the European mathematicians.

Algebra, Trigonometry and Calculus also originated in India.Quadratic Equations were used by Sridharacharya in the 11th century. The largest numbers the Greeks and the Romans used were 106 whereas Hindus used numbers as big as 10*53 (i.e. 10 to the power of 53) with specific names as early as 5000 B.C.during the Vedic period.Even today, the largest used number is Terra: 10*12(10 to the power of 12).

Until 1896, India was the only source of diamonds in the world
(Source: Gemological Institute of America).

The Baily Bridge is the highest bridge in the world. It is located in the Ladakh valley between the Dras and Suru rivers in the Himalayan mountains. It was built by the Indian Army in August 1982.

Sushruta is regarded as the Father of Surgery. Over2600 years ago Sushrata & his team conducted complicated surgeries like cataract, artificial limbs, cesareans, fractures, urinary stones, plastic surgery and brain surgeries.

Usage of anaesthesia was well known in ancient Indian medicine. Detailed knowledge of anatomy, embryology, digestion, metabolism,physiology, etiology, genetics and immunity is also found in many ancient Indian texts.

India exports software to 90 countries.

The four religions born in India - Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and Sikhism, are followed by 25% of the world's population.
Jainism and Buddhism were founded in India in 600 B.C. and 500 B.C. respectively.

Islam is India's and the world's second largest religion.

There are 300,000 active mosques in India, more than in any other country, including the Muslim world.

The oldest European church and synagogue in India are in the city of Cochin. They were built in 1503 and 1568 respectively.

Jews and Christians have lived continuously in India since 200 B.C. and 52 A.D. respectively

The largest religious building in the world is Angkor Wat, a Hindu Temple in Cambodia built at the end of the 11th century.

The Vishnu Temple in the city of Tirupathi built in the 10th century, is the world's largest religious pilgrimage destination. Larger than either Rome or Mecca, an average of 30,000 visitors donate $6 million (US) to the temple everyday.

Sikhism originated in the Holy city of Amritsar in Punjab. Famous for housing the Golden Temple, the city was founded in 1577.
Varanasi, also known as Benaras, was called "the Ancient City" when Lord Buddha visited it in 500 B.C., and is the oldest, continuously inhabited city in the world today.

India provides safety for more than 300,000 refugees originally from Sri Lanka, Tibet, Bhutan, Afghanistan and Bangladesh, who escaped to flee religious and political persecution.

His Holiness, the Dalai Lama, the exiled spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhists, runs his government in exile from Dharmashala in northern India.

Martial Arts were first created in India, and later spread to Asia by Buddhist missionaries.

Yoga has its origins in India and has existed for over 5,000 years.

Interesting Facts about India - My India, My Pride - Know India: National Portal of India

=> the same can be read on the Indian Government's website in Hindi as below:

भारत के बारे में रोचक तथ्-य

भारत ने अपने आखिरी 100000 वर्षों के इतिहास में किसी भी देश पर हमला नहीं किया है।

जब कई संस्कृतियों में 5000 साल पहले घुमंतू वनवासी थे, तब भारतीयों ने सिंधु घाटी (सिंधु घाटी सभ्यता) में हड़प्पा संस्कृति की स्थापना की।

भारत का अंग्रेजी में नाम 'इंडिया' इं-डस नदी से बना है, जिसके आस पास की घाटी में आरंभिक सभ्-यताएं निवास करती थी। आर्य पूजकों में इस इंडस नदी को सिंधु कहा।

ईरान से आए आक्रमणकारियों ने सिंधु को हिंदु की तरह प्रयोग किया। 'हिंदुस्तान' नाम सिंधु और हिंदु का संयोजन है, जो कि हिंदुओं की भूमि के संदर्भ में प्रयुक्त होता है।
शतरंज की खोज भारत में की गई थी।

बीज गणित, त्रिकोण मिति और कलन का अध्-ययन भारत में ही आरंभ हुआ था।

'स्-थान मूल्-य प्रणाली' और 'दशमलव प्रणाली' का विकास भारत में 100 बी सी में हुआ था।

विश्-व का प्रथम ग्रेनाइट मंदिर तमिलनाडु के तंजौर में बृहदेश्-वर मंदिर है। इस मंदिर के शिखर ग्रेनाइट के 80 टन के टुकड़ों से बने हैं। यह भव्-य मंदिर राजाराज चोल के राज्-य के दौरान केवल 5 वर्ष की अवधि में (1004 ए डी और 1009 ए डी के दौरान) निर्मित किया गया था।

भारत विश्-व का सबसे बड़ा लोकतंत्र और विश्-व का सातवां सबसे बड़ा देश तथा प्राचीन सभ्-यताओं में से एक है।

सांप सीढ़ी का खेल तेरहवीं शताब्-दी में कवि संत ज्ञान देव द्वारा तैयार किया गया था इसे मूल रूप से मोक्षपट कहते थे। इस खेल में सीढियां वरदानों का प्रतिनिधित्-व करती थीं जबकि सांप अवगुणों को दर्शाते थे। इस खेल को कौडियों तथा पांसे के साथ खेला जाता था। आगे चल कर इस खेल में कई बदलाव किए गए, परन्-तु इसका अर्थ वहीं रहा अर्थात अच्-छे काम लोगों को स्-वर्ग की ओर ले जाते हैं जबकि बुरे काम दोबारा जन्-म के चक्र में डाल देते हैं।

दुनिया का सबसे ऊंचा क्रिकेट का मैदान हिमाचल प्रदेश के चायल नामक स्-थान पर है। इसे समुद्री सतह से 2444 मीटर की ऊंचाई पर भूमि को समतल बना कर 1893 में तैयार किया गया था।

भारत में विश्-व भर से सबसे अधिक संख्-या में डाक खाने स्थित हैं।

भारतीय रेल देश का सबसे बड़ा नियोक्ता है। यह दस लाख से अधिक लोगों को रोजगार प्रदान करता है।

विश्-व का सबसे प्रथम विश्-वविद्यालय 700 बी सी में तक्षशिला में स्-थापित किया गया था। इसमें 60 से अधिक विषयों में 10,500 से अधिक छात्र दुनियाभर से आकर अध्-ययन करते थे। नालंदा विश्-वविद्यालय चौथी शताब्-दी में स्-थापित किया गया था जो शिक्षा के क्षेत्र में प्राचीन भारत की महानतम उपलब्धियों में से एक है।

आयुर्वेद मानव जाति के लिए ज्ञात सबसे आरंभिक चिकित्-सा शाखा है। शाखा विज्ञान के जनक माने जाने वाले चरक में 2500 वर्ष पहले आयुर्वेद का समेकन किया था।

भारत 17वीं शताब्-दी के आरंभ तक ब्रिटिश राज्-य आने से पहले सबसे सम्-पन्-न देश था। क्रिस्-टोफर कोलम्-बस भारत की सम्-पन्-नता से आकर्षित हो कर भारत आने का समुद्री मार्ग खोजने चला और उसने गलती से अमेरिका को खोज लिया।

नौवहन की कला और नौवहन का जन्-म 6000 वर्ष पहले सिंध नदी में हुआ था। दुनिया का सबसे पहला नौवहन संस्-कृ-त शब्-द नव गति से उत्-पन्-न हुआ है। शब्-द नौ सेना भी संस्-कृत शब्-द नोउ से हुआ।

भास्-कराचार्य ने खगोल शास्-त्र के कई सौ साल पहले पृथ्-वी द्वारा सूर्य के चारों ओर चक्-कर लगाने में लगने वाले सही समय की गणना की थी। उनकी गणना के अनुसार सूर्य की परिक्रमा में पृथ्-वी को 365.258756484 दिन का समय लगता है।

भारतीय गणितज्ञ बुधायन द्वारा 'पाई' का मूल्-य ज्ञात किया गया था और उन्-होंने जिस संकल्-पना को समझाया उसे पाइथागोरस का प्रमेय करते हैं। उन्-होंने इसकी खोज छठवीं शताब्-दी में की, जो यूरोपीय गणितज्ञों से काफी पहले की गई थी।

बीज गणित, त्रिकोण मिति और कलन का उद्भव भी भारत में हुआ था। चतुष्-पद समीकरण का उपयोग 11वीं शताब्-दी में श्री धराचार्य द्वारा किया गया था। ग्रीक तथा रोमनों द्वारा उपयोग की गई की सबसे बड़ी संख्-या 106 थी जबकि हिन्-दुओं ने 10*53 जितने बड़े अंकों का उपयोग (अर्थात 10 की घात 53), के साथ विशिष्-ट नाम 5000 बीसी के दौरान किया। आज भी उपयोग की जाने वाली सबसे बड़ी संख्-या टेरा: 10*12 (10 की घात12) है।

वर्ष 1896 तक भारत विश्-व में हीरे का एक मात्र स्रोत था।
(स्रोत: जेमोलॉजिकल इंस्-टी-ट्यूट ऑफ अमेरिका)

बेलीपुल विश्-व- में सबसे ऊंचा पुल है। यह हिमाचल पर्वत में द्रास और सुरु नदियों के बीच लद्दाख घाटी में स्थित है। इसका निर्माण अगस्-त 1982 में भारतीय सेना द्वारा किया गया था।

सुश्रुत को शल्-य चिकित्-सा का जनक माना जाता है। लगभग 2600 वर्ष पहले सुश्रुत और उनके सहयोगियों ने मोतियाबिंद, कृत्रिम अंगों को लगना, शल्-य क्रिया द्वारा प्रसव, अस्थिभंग जोड़ना, मूत्राशय की पथरी, प्-लास्टिक सर्जरी और मस्तिष्-क की शल्-य क्रियाएं आदि की।

निश्-चेतक का उपयोग भारतीय प्राचीन चिकित्-सा विज्ञान में भली भांति ज्ञात था। शारीरिकी, भ्रूण विज्ञान, पाचन, चयापचय, शरीर क्रिया विज्ञान, इटियोलॉजी, आनुवांशिकी और प्रतिरक्षा विज्ञान आदि विषय भी प्राचीन भारतीय ग्रंथों में पाए जाते हैं।

भारत से 90 देशों को सॉफ्टवेयर का निर्यात किया जाता है।

भारत में 4 धर्मों का जन्-म हुआ – हिन्-दु, बौद्ध, जैन और सिक्-ख धर्म और जिनका पालन दुनिया की आबादी का 25 प्रतिशत हिस्-सा करता है।

जैन धर्म और बौद्ध धर्म की स्-थापना भारत में क्रमश: 600 बी सी और 500 बी सी में हुई थी।

इस्-लाम भारत का और दुनिया का दूसरा सबसे बड़ा धर्म है।

भारत में 3,00,000 मस्जिदें हैं जो किसी अन्-य देश से अधिक हैं, यहां तक कि मुस्लिम देशों से भी अधिक।

भारत में सबसे पुराना यूरोपियन चर्च और सिनागोग कोचीन शहर में है। इनका निर्माण क्रमश: 1503 और 1568 में किया गया था।

ज्-यू और ईसाई व्-यक्ति भारत में क्रमश: 200 बी सी और 52 ए डी से निवास करते हैं।

विश्-व में सबसे बड़ा धार्मिक भवन अंगकोरवाट, हिन्-दु मंदिर है जो कम्-बोडिया में 11वीं शताब्-दी के दौरान बनाया गया था।

तिरुपति शहर में बना विष्-णु मंदिर 10वीं शताब्-दी के दौरान बनाया गया था, यह विश्-व का सबसे बड़ा धार्मिक गंतव्-य है। रोम या मक्-का धार्मिक स्-थलों से भी बड़े इस स्-थान पर प्रतिदिन औसतन 30 हजार श्रद्धालु आते हैं और लगभग 6 मिलियन अमेरिकी डॉलर प्रति दिन चढ़ावा आता है।

सिक्-ख धर्म का उद्भव पंजाब के पवित्र शहर अमृतसर में हुआ था। यहां प्रसिद्ध स्-वर्ण मंदिर की स्-थापना 1577 में गई थी।

वाराणसी, जिसे बनारस के नाम से भी जाना जाता है, एक प्राचीन शहर है जब भगवान बुद्ध ने 500 बी सी में यहां आगमन किया और यह आज विश्-व का सबसे पुराना और निरंतर आगे बढ़ने वाला शहर है।

भारत द्वारा श्रीलंका, तिब्-बत, भूटान, अफगानिस्-तान और बांग्-लादेश के 3,00,000 से अधिक शरणार्थियों को सुरक्षा दी जाती है, जो धार्मिक और राजनैतिक अभियोजन के फलस्-वरूप वहां से निकल गए हैं।

माननीय दलाई लामा तिब्-बती बौद्ध धर्म के निर्वासित धार्मिक नेता है, जो उत्तरी भारत के धर्मशाला में अपने निर्वासन में रह रहे हैं।

युद्ध कलाओं का विकास सबसे पहले भारत में किया गया और ये बौद्ध धर्म प्रचारकों द्वारा पूरे एशिया में फैलाई गई।

योग कला का उद्भव भारत में हुआ है और यह 5,000 वर्ष से अधिक समय से मौजूद है।

भारत के बारे में रोचक तथ्-य - राष्-ट्रीय दिवस - मेरा भारत मेरी शान - भारत के बारे में जानें: भारत के

 

[pmaitra]

Yes, history is subjective but genetics and other such developments have helped quash some of the ideological BS and subjectivity. For eg., AIT definitely does not hold true.

How can you be so definite? Many things make no sense without AIT/AMT.

 

[wrigsted]

whenever you all talk about the British pigs, you all would get to know the very first facts about them as below. from where they came to India and how exactly they were in UK, before coming to India..................

I have read many articles about Western Superiority and it is regarded for the 200 years only, mainly since early to mid 19th centuries.just google and you will get any references in this regard. while i also keep a standard post to state the life style of West till 18th century, to first brain wash of those who only know what western media tells them, as below:

- just see how these pigs were rated in this world even till 18th century, as below. do you know, the biggest earing of British government in India in 19th century was through the drugs smuggling into China??????, would you like to be having this type of background, check as below:


see the criterion of measuring 'richness' of these pigs even till 17th/18th century as below: (based on the number of days they could eat properly )


=> in fact it isn't fair to compare Britain with India even till the end of 18th century. we find its more fair to compare India with whole Western Europe till the end of 18th century, by start of 19th century, as below:

even if we have a close look on the data's then we find that even by 1820, GDP of India was around $111,417mil, as compare to total GDP of Western Europe at $159,851mil as below. it may also because of the fact that Marathas lost heavy wealth during the 15 years of war with British till 1818................

List of regions by past GDP (PPP) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(this GDP estimate is based on the prices at 1820. here the "Total Western Europe" include the current 17 Eurozone nations, +Britain+Norway+Swedan etc)

All the world's misfortune in general and India in particular is the white pigs fault. If only the Nawab of Bengal had won the Battle of Plassey and with the help of France conquered England and the rest of Europe the world would have been a paradise

To call a people pigs, is low.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

How can you be so definite? Many things make no sense without AIT/AMT.

I am definite on this case because of the genetic findings that the Indian population share the same DNA. This very finding hits at the basic premises of AIT, unless ofcourse if someone comes and proves that these genetic studies are fraud.

Earlier without this kind of scientific inquiry, any phenomenon could be attributed to anything and support of one's theory completely depended on political power.

 

[parijataka]

All the world's misfortune in general and India in particular is the white pigs fault. If only the Nawab of Bengal had won the Battle of Plassey and with the help of France conquered England and the rest of Europe the world would have been a paradise

To call a people pigs, is low.

Pigs is a strong word indeed. OTOH going by what one reads on the Net British people consider British rule to be the civilising force for barbaric India. Fact is British invaded India and enslaved us - dont expect the invaded to love the invaders!

 

[pmaitra]

I am definite on this case because of the genetic findings that the Indian population share the same DNA. This very finding hits at the basic premises of AIT, unless ofcourse if someone comes and proves that these genetic studies are fraud.

Earlier without this kind of scientific inquiry, any phenomenon could be attributed to anything and support of one's theory completely depended on political power.

Well, I have debated that in the AIT thread. The genetic findings prove nothing, but I won't debate that here. Perhaps we could discuss it in the AIT thread. Genetic studies are not fraud, they are just statistically insufficient, and therefore inconclusive. You are good with economics, you know about similarity tests and their weaknesses.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

The British version of Indian history more or less has become the acceptable
version all over the world, whether it is true or not or factual can be debated but
it stil would not change the past and the divisions and hatred and nations created
by the breakup of the subcontinent by the British.

 

[Sukerchakia]

Caste system was certainly present during Mahabharat times. If one remembers the Eklavya episode, where a tribal (Bheel?) Eklavya was refused military education by Dronacharya on account of him not being born of a warrior caste, a Kshatriya.

 

[Mad Indian]

How can you be so definite? Many things make no sense without AIT/AMT.

And evolution makes no sense to a creatard

What you are saying is argument made from ignorance

 

[Mad Indian]

I am definite on this case because of the genetic findings that the Indian population share the same DNA. This very finding hits at the basic premises of AIT, unless ofcourse if someone comes and proves that these genetic studies are fraud.

Earlier without this kind of scientific inquiry, any phenomenon could be attributed to anything and support of one's theory completely depended on political power.

Some aryans are butt hurt about AIT proven false because it severest any link they had with the great brits and German tribes while dravidians are butt hurt because they no longer own the IVC alone.- this is the reason for resistance to accepting the fact that AIT is crap. Add to it the fact that leftard govt crap history in the schools


Also genetics have proven beyond doubt the crappiness of the AIT btw. The mapping with genetics show that Indians(aryans, dravidians and whatever non existent race May be) are residents of India for the past 45000years. Also according the latest research in genetics, migration happened from indo-Iran plain to Europe and not from there to here. This is absolute contradiction for AIT/AMT because according to it, migration/invasion happened only during the 4000-5000BC . I still can't understand why we are even considering this crap theory AIT/AMT to be right


About castes, I think author is wrong. I believe the castes existed from vedas itself.

 

[Mad Indian]

Pigs is a strong word indeed. OTOH going by what one reads on the Net British people consider British rule to be the civilising force for barbaric India. Fact is British invaded India and enslaved us - dont expect the invaded to love the invaders!

He kind of has a point you know. We had 65 yrs of freedom. What did we do with it?. And it is not like British created an artificial caste/religious divide is it?? Most of Indian problems are home grown

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Some aryans are butt hurt about AIT proven false because it severest any link they had with the great brits and German tribes while dravidians are butt hurt because they no longer own the IVC alone.- this is the reason for resistance to accepting the fact that AIT is crap. Add to it the fact that leftard govt crap history in the schools


Also genetics have proven beyond doubt the crappiness of the AIT btw. The mapping with genetics show that Indians(aryans, dravidians and whatever non existent race May be) are residents of India for the past 45000years. Also according the latest research in genetics, migration happened from indo-Iran plain to Europe and not from there to here. This is absolute contradiction for AIT/AMT because according to it, migration/invasion happened only during the 4000-5000BC . I still can't understand why we are even considering this crap theory AIT/AMT to be right


About castes, I think author is wrong. I believe the castes existed from vedas itself.

Read the book "Land of Seven rivers" by Sanjeev Sanyal. It kind of gives the whole picture on the AIT from the lens of modern genetics. Obviously I am no expert on genetics and their can be testability issues particularly related to sample size or other statistical errors etc( @pmaitra), but it is still better than harping on other weak evidences promoted by AIT lovers. Also given the fact that genetic anthropology is done by people trained in biology and medicine, there is very little reason to doubt that they would be careless in statistical testing given the rich tradition of testing that these sciences have. No surprise that most support for AIT comes from the old historians untrained to undertake or even understand genetic studies!! The new historians are in much better position in that sense.

Also, caste might have existed in the Vedas but I highly doubt that it was based on birth. Some readings for you:

Vedas condemn birth-based caste discrimination — Self-Help | Motivation | Spiritualism | Rationalism | Vedas | Hinduism | Anti-Casteism | Women Rights - Agniveer
There is no caste-system in Vedas — Self-Help | Motivation | Spiritualism | Rationalism | Vedas | Hinduism | Anti-Casteism | Women Rights - Agniveer

 

[pmaitra]

Read the book "Land of Seven rivers" by Sanjeev Sanyal. It kind of gives the whole picture on the AIT from the lens of modern genetics. Obviously I am no expert on genetics and their can be testability issues particularly related to sample size or other statistical errors etc( @pmaitra), but it is still better than harping on other weak evidences promoted by AIT lovers. Also given the fact that genetic anthropology is done by people trained in biology and medicine, there is very little reason to doubt that they would be careless in statistical testing given the rich tradition of testing that these sciences have. No surprise that most support for AIT comes from the old historians untrained to undertake or even understand genetic studies!! The new historians are in much better position in that sense.

Your entire argument is hinged on an unsupported premise that those genetic biologists you agree with are "trained," while those that you disagree with are "untrained."

What is the statistical evidence provided in that book you mentioned?

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Your entire argument is hinged on an unsupported premise that those genetic biologists you agree with are "trained," while those that you disagree with are "untrained."

What is the statistical evidence provided in that book you mentioned?

No, I did not say that. What I said was that biology and medicine(and it is people from here that move into genetics) has a rich tradition for empirical testing and so chances are less that there are gaps in their findings or big statistical errors. Also, genetic anthropology research generally debunks AIT.

There are many references given. Some of them:
http://jsarf.free.fr/palanthsci/jhg20082a.pdf
http://repository.ias.ac.in/51846/1/42-PUB.pdf
Reconstructing Indian Population History

The point is that most of them are published in good peer reviewed journals. So, empirical testing requirement would be quite stringent. And definitely, the people trained in history would in general be non-experts in genetics(I tried to be not harsh, but that does not change the fact). @Mad Indian what do you say about these articles?

Not to forget the fact that whatever genetics say is testable in the near future through their medicinal use while other methods used by historians cannot be tested. So, a strong genetics based argument is sufficient to kill AIT.