Ahmedabad-Mumbai-Pune High-Speed Rail Project Gets Closer to Realisation

plugwater

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The proposed Chennai Bangalore expressway is 240 km, High speed railway will really be helpful.

Regarding the question of transporting passengers from the station to the inside of city metro express like Delhi airport metro express can be built.
 

Yusuf

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Delhi-Mumbai may be expensive but then we are not talking about such a route right now. We are talking about Ahmedabad Mumbai route, chennai bangalore etc. These routes are feasible and desirable as well.
 

pmaitra

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Nope. I dont understand. May be i dont understand Physics but I can definitely do some Math. Road transport in these two sectors is cheaper than high speed trains.

Rates of transport:

Cost of Volvo bus seat Rs.220,
Regular train (non A/C) Rs. 80
Regular train (A/C) Rs. 250
Flight - makes absolutely no sense at all. The amount of time spent in reaching the airport, checkin lugguage, boarding, baggage pick-up etc.... doesn't make it practical
High speed train ----- (?????)

What do you think the rate of ticket is going to be for the high speed train. If i it is under Rs.700 it might be just acceptable. They will still never be able to recover the money spent on the project at that rate. Private players would not even think about getting into such a non sensical project. The prices of air tickets are high because of government taxes not because of high ATF prices. BTW, ATF prices are less than petrol these days.
If you don't understand physics, then why did you even bother to respond?

What are your numbers based on? You are comparing a Volvo bus with an A/C chair car ticket? Which one is more comfortable? This is subjective. Which one is more convenient? Again this is subjective.

Here is what an objective evaluation should look like:
 

pmaitra

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^^

@SLASH,

Additionally:

A/C ticket prices in Indian Railways have two components:
  1. Actual cost of travel in A/C.
  2. Additional price levied to afford subsidies to tickets for cheaper non-A/C coaches to make travel easy for poor people.

Hence, although your math is correct, you numbers are incorrect and so is your inference.
 

SLASH

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^^

@SLASH,

Additionally:

A/C ticket prices in Indian Railways have two components:
  1. Actual cost of travel in A/C.
  2. Additional price levied to afford subsidies to tickets for cheaper non-A/C coaches to make travel easy for poor people.

Hence, although your math is correct, you numbers are incorrect and so is your inference.
As you would know there are three classes in most of our trains:

1) First Class A/C (three tier and two tier)
2) Second class Non A/C
3) General

The prices of second class and first class are both priced according to comfort they provide. The prices that I provided are for first class and second class. Second class tickets are not subsidised. Only general coach is. But the general coach does not have any reservation facility. Therefore, the comparison is not logical.

The same formula is used by most airlines as well. The prices of economy tickets are kept low, just to find a break even point. They make their money from business and first class tickets.
 

SLASH

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If you don't understand physics, then why did you even bother to respond?

What are your numbers based on? You are comparing a Volvo bus with an A/C chair car ticket? Which one is more comfortable? This is subjective. Which one is more convenient? Again this is subjective.

Here is what an objective evaluation should look like:
I am just comparing other options that a normal commuter would have. Of course it is very important that a study is done whether people will be willing to pay such a high amount.

The number are the actual prices for travelling between Mumbai and Pune.
 

plugwater

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Railways high speed trains may have French connection

New Delhi, Jun 19 (PTI) Railways is mulling to name its proposed high speed train service as TGS (Tibra Gatee Seva) on the pattern of TGV, the bullet train service in France.
France''s TGV, which stands for ''Train � Grande Vitesse'' or high speed train in English, is renowned for its speed and comfort, running at 280-300 km/hour speed on five major lines.
Some of the premier train services are named by Railways as Rajdhani, Shatabdi and Duronto.
Railways which is setting up the National High Speed Rail Authority to implement and monitor the high speed train project in the country is currently awarding contracts to global consultants for conducting feasibility studies of the proposed routes.
"As of now we are in the process of awarding contracts for the pre-feasibility studies of the proposed high speed corridors," a senior Railway Ministry official said.
As far as naming the proposed bullet trains is concerned, the official said, "No final decision has been taken yet to name it as TGS. This may be a just proposal as these trains are meant to cover distances of up to 600 km in two to three hours," the official said.
Railways plans to make the high speed rail corridor into a catalyst for India''s economic growth, a stimulus for the development of satellite towns and reduction of migration to cities.
"We have awarded three foreign consultants to carry out studies in three corridors out of the six identified routes for conducting pre-feasibility studies for developing high speed rail corridors," the official said. (More) PTI ARU RAI ZMN


Railways high speed trains may have French connection - Yahoo! News
 

pmaitra

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As you would know there are three classes in most of our trains:

1) First Class A/C (three tier and two tier)
2) Second class Non A/C
3) General

The prices of second class and first class are both priced according to comfort they provide. The prices that I provided are for first class and second class. Second class tickets are not subsidised. Only general coach is. But the general coach does not have any reservation facility. Therefore, the comparison is not logical.

The same formula is used by most airlines as well. The prices of economy tickets are kept low, just to find a break even point. They make their money from business and first class tickets.
I think you quoted the price of A/C Chair Car and not A/C First Class, but anyway, they are used to subsidise the general classes. On the other hand, a private railway will not be subsidising anything.

Again, Sleeper Class or non-A/C class is anyways cheaper than Volvo, but then Volvo has A/C while Sleeper Class has toilets that can be used anytime; thus, we're not comparing apples with apples.

Hence, any detraction w.r.t. the proposed private railway must be supported by sound arguments and right now there is no reason to believe it will not be economically feasible. Maybe that is true, but then the reasons you have provided are hardly convincing, at least to me.
 

Yusuf

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Let us take the Chennai-Bangalore route. Distance about 325kms. Shatabdi fare is 500 or 550 I think. Economy air fare is about 3000. Travel time by shatabdi is 5 hours, flight is 45 mins. Add to airfare is 700/- for taxi to airport in bangalore and 1 hour of travel time to airport. I don't know the taxi fare in chennai and how far it is from city. Still even if we catch 500/- it means total expense of about 4200 for a one way travel. Considering the fare difference in Taiwan that I know about, high speed rail ticket should be between 750-1000 with a travel time of 90 mins. Which also means, two trains on this line and we have a bangalore chennai rail link every 90 odd mins at pretty reasonable fare. Right now we have 5-6 trains which always go full and also all the volvos. In future we will need even more options.
 

SLASH

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Let us take the Chennai-Bangalore route. Distance about 325kms. Shatabdi fare is 500 or 550 I think. Economy air fare is about 3000. Travel time by shatabdi is 5 hours, flight is 45 mins. Add to airfare is 700/- for taxi to airport in bangalore and 1 hour of travel time to airport. I don't know the taxi fare in chennai and how far it is from city. Still even if we catch 500/- it means total expense of about 4200 for a one way travel. Considering the fare difference in Taiwan that I know about, high speed rail ticket should be between 750-1000 with a travel time of 90 mins. Which also means, two trains on this line and we have a bangalore chennai rail link every 90 odd mins at pretty reasonable fare. Right now we have 5-6 trains which always go full and also all the volvos. In future we will need even more options.
See that is a better option if you ask me. Connecting two big cities is better than connecting Mumbai with Pune or Ahmedabad. As you mentioned the demand and prices are much more economical compared to air fare. Airfare between Mumbai and Ahmedabad is around Rs.2500 even though the distance is more than 500 km. Compare that with Chennai-Bangalore and you will see where the demand is higher. I think they shouldhave Bangalore-Hyderabad-Chennai as the demand is there to sustain such a project. Similarly Jaipur could be connected to Delhi (for tourist and business).

Mumbai-Pune-Ahemdabad makes no sense.
 

Yusuf

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Mumbai-Pune-Ahemdabad makes no sense.
May be mumbai Pune might not be feasible or attractive, but Ahmedabad Mumbai is.

Yes Hyderbad-Chennai, Hyderabad Bangalore is also is a good route.
 

mayfair

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May be mumbai Pune might not be feasible or attractive, but Ahmedabad Mumbai is.

Yes Hyderbad-Chennai, Hyderabad Bangalore is also is a good route.
Bangalore-Chennai would be a good option. It may also be extended upto Mysore. Lots of traffic on that sector.

I believe Bangalore-Hyderabad-Chennai would be better served as two different routes Hyderabad-Bangalore and Hyderabad-Chennai, sort of a triangle.

Lots of potential for a rapid train service to Kerala (Palakkad, Thrissur, Ernakulam, Kottayam and Thiruvanathapuram) as well. Intriguingly I have noticed plenty of opposition from many Bangaloreans on expanding transport services to and from Kerala.
 

SLASH

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May be mumbai Pune might not be feasible or attractive, but Ahmedabad Mumbai is.

Yes Hyderbad-Chennai, Hyderabad Bangalore is also is a good route.
There is a lot traffic between Mumbai-Surat. But not many businessman travel till Ahmedabad. I know this because I travel on this by train every week. Although a bullet train would make my life a lot easier, but I would hate it if the prices of tickets are out of reach. Most of the people will not go the full stretch from Mumbai to Ahemdabad. The key stations will be Boisar, Vapi, Valsad, Surat, Bharuch, Baroda and Ahemdabad. The sector between Mumbai-Surat will be the busiest (300 km).

The Gujrat and Maharashtra government are working over the Mumbai-Ahemdabad expressway as well. The expressway will allow speed of over 100 km. This make Surat just 3 hours from Mumbai. My work is based in Valsad. Im looking forward to the expressway rather than the high speed rail corridor. :)
 

pankaj nema

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High speed rail will NEVER happen in India

In every high speed rail project the ENTIRE length is WALLED on Both sides .

This aspect is not possible in India . In India you just cannot WALL 300 km of land and EXPECT people NOT to break the wall

The prohibitive cost of a high speed rail way system is just another matter of detail
 

SLASH

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High speed rail will NEVER happen in India

In every high speed rail project the ENTIRE length is WALLED on Both sides .

This aspect is not possible in India . In India you just cannot WALL 300 km of land and EXPECT people NOT to break the wall

The prohibitive cost of a high speed rail way system is just another matter of detail
Either walled or elevated. Either way our government just doesn't have it in them to undertake such a massive project and finish it on time. They take bloody ages to finish highway project god only know how long it would take for them to finish such a difficult project.
 

Yusuf

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Either walled or elevated. Either way our government just doesn't have it in them to undertake such a massive project and finish it on time. They take bloody ages to finish highway project god only know how long it would take for them to finish such a difficult project.
It's going to be a private project. Bids will be called. BOT is the way it will go.
 

SLASH

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It's going to be a private project. Bids will be called. BOT is the way it will go.
Are you sure these are going to be 100% privately built and operated? Even the highways are built and operated by private companies, although the network is improving, the companies undertaking these highway project are slow to work and the quality is substandard.

Even the Bandra-Worli sea link based on PPP, but it still took a lot of time to finish. A small skywalk outside my house has taken three year and its still half way through. Hate to say this but our red tape will assure that a project of this magnitude will take at least 20-30 years to complete.
 

pmaitra

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High speed rail will NEVER happen in India

In every high speed rail project the ENTIRE length is WALLED on Both sides .

This aspect is not possible in India . In India you just cannot WALL 300 km of land and EXPECT people NOT to break the wall

The prohibitive cost of a high speed rail way system is just another matter of detail
High speed railway will happen in India, provided you put people like Medha Patkar, Mamata Banerjee, Jairam Ramesh behind the bars. Will that be a good move? I don't know. :(
 

Yusuf

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Are you sure these are going to be 100% privately built and operated? Even the highways are built and operated by private companies, although the network is improving, the companies undertaking these highway project are slow to work and the quality is substandard.

Even the Bandra-Worli sea link based on PPP, but it still took a lot of time to finish. A small skywalk outside my house has taken three year and its still half way through. Hate to say this but our red tape will assure that a project of this magnitude will take at least 20-30 years to complete.
You cannot blame red tape for private people completing the work behind schedule. I know what happens. A private company wins contract. Gets and advance to start the work. Then when the next installment is due, they drag their feet. That's where they can make money. Private guys stop work as no fund is released to them.
If projects are transparently carried out, there will be no delay. The example of the skywalk is perfect case study for such a thing. It is under municipal authority and they are notorious for doing such things.

But a project like high speed rail which goes to the highest level should not face any such issues. See delhi metro and how it was completed. Big projects like these which are matter of pride as well are executed properly. A little bit of a delay like a couple of months or six months even for such a magnitude project is acceptable.
 

Sabir

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Hope government will consider such projects in Bengal too. Kolkata-Siliguri;Kolkata-Haldia;Kolkata-Asansol will be important option.
 

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