AH-64E Apache attack helicopter

[rone]

Why should one calculate the price when that price is not the one to be paid? Again, with FMS it’s never overpriced.

I recommend you do more research on US FMS before jumping to conclusions.

Sorry I don't get it becoz from US press release it clearly said the approximate amount nears 930 mil, so you saying the final order will be less than what it estimated? Whether its FMS or G2G once seller country clear the sale's it will mostly in line with estimated price tag and +- inflation

 

[charlie]

…………….………………………………...

 

[ezsasa]

As u said even 80 mil per bird with out weapons i agree with you but look at weapons coming only 270 odd hell fire and 200 stinger the cost per hellfire and stinger are cost of 1 hellfire missile: $ 1,15,000 cost of 1 stinger missile: $ 40,000, now calculate the rest of price its over priced and mostly insane to have weapons and logistics package more costly than actual weapon platform,

It would be nice if someone arrive at individual price of each line item in the deal.

Apache engine per unit : 755000 USD X 14

stinger : 40000$ X 200

Hellfire : 120000$ X 270

Longbow FCS : ? X 4

 

[Assassin 2.0]

After yemen rebels clearly shot down apache helicopters of saudi army I'm little spectacle about this purchase.
But anyways india have lots of money to buy junk from it.

Meanwhile daily helicopters crashes in siachin is happening no one cares about that IAF just want some golden birds for photo ops.

 

[ezsasa]

After yemen rebels clearly shot down apache helicopters of saudi army I'm little spectacle about this purchase.
But anyways india have lots of money to buy junk from it.

Meanwhile daily helicopters crashes in siachin is happening no one cares about that IAF just want some golden birds for photo ops.

There will always be pros and cons.

From a tactical perspective:

IA gets to experiment with incorporating contemporary Heavy weight combat chopper ,PGM (hellfire), FCS(longbow) into their tactics. Which other wise they would have to wait for a decade for Indian industry to come up with this.

I hope IA finds it useful to incorporate these into COIN ops in near future.

 

[Suryavanshi]

It would be nice if someone arrive at individual price of each line item in the deal.

Apache engine per unit : 755000 USD X 14

stinger : 40000$ X 200

Hellfire : 120000$ X 270

Longbow FCS : ? X 4

Heli cost = 210 m
Engine cost = 10.5 m
Stringer cost = 8 m
Hellfire cost = 32.4 m
Radar cost = 20 m

Total cost of the above =280.9 m
Lets round it off to 300 m.

What the fuck they are still charging us 3x

 

[Suryavanshi]

We could start our own Heavy Helicopter project for this money.

Are ye sarkar kya kar rahi he

 

[Assassin 2.0]

There will always be pros and cons.

From a tactical perspective:

IA gets to experiment with incorporating contemporary Heavy weight combat chopper ,PGM (hellfire), FCS(longbow) into their tactics. Which other wise they would have to wait for a decade for Indian industry to come up with this.

I hope IA finds it useful to incorporate these into COIN ops in near future.

Buddy sure it will help us in a tactical way and other things but at this cost we could have bought a Fighter jet. And fuck it in less than half of this budget HAL itself could have made a attack helicopter.
LUH could have also helped to counter Chinese development and ease our reach in key strategic areas.
Yes every new addition will help the army coz most of the equipments are old we need to seek which weapon is most cost effective we don't have unlimited sources but then why the MOD starts a randi rona of budget crunch when it comes to indigenous weapons. L&T Chairman Says Will Close Gun Factory Inaugurated by PM 12 Months ago

Stating the reasons for shutdown Mr. Naik said that there is lack of future orders. L&T is ahead of schedule in delivering the current order of 100 guns but the government has not extended the order further for 180 guns as promised. This, as per Mr. Naik is due to lack of funds with the Government. Therefore, L&T would be closing down the facility after completing the current order of 100 guns.

I think To give orders to US Russia Isreal santa claus leaves a bag full of money at MOD office.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

We could start our own Heavy Helicopter project for this money.

Are ye sarkar kya kar rahi he

Make in india is a fake dream showed By PM Modi. From athos to atags everything is turning into shit.

 

[abhay rajput]

Chutiyapa is going on.. first it was artillery , now this shit.. I believe that at the end of NDA -10 years rule , there might be not much difference left between Modi and Congress.. we don't have money to buy Tejas or Chetak/cheetah replacement .. similarly with ak203, I am telling you that this government has bent on its knees to please both Russia and USA.. and both of them are making us fool .. I can't believe I am saying this , BJP is failure in international relations..

 

[ezsasa]

Chutiyapa is going on.. first it was artillery , now this shit.. I believe that at the end of NDA -10 years rule , there might be not much difference left between Modi and Congress.. we don't have money to buy Tejas or Chetak/cheetah replacement .. similarly with ak203, I am telling you that this government has bent on its knees to please both Russia and USA.. and both of them are making us fool ..

Don’t agree with this argument.

Tejas has not completed its trials, SP order is yet to be fulfilled. MK1A concept introduced in 2016. AESA ELTA decision taken only recently.

Cheetah/Chetak replacement LUH has not completed its trials. they started working on it in 2016.

AK203, we don’t know the full story yet. But American Dalal lobby did create rumours against Russians before the visit of American president.

These deals we are seeing now are part of decisions taken in 2016, part of filling gaps in defence readiness using imports.

 

[Akula]

There will always be pros and cons.

From a tactical perspective:

IA gets to experiment with incorporating contemporary Heavy weight combat chopper ,PGM (hellfire), FCS(longbow) into their tactics. Which other wise they would have to wait for a decade for Indian industry to come up with this.

I hope IA finds it useful to incorporate these into COIN ops in near future.

But why does IAF needs Apache helicopters when it should start with Army?

 

[ezsasa]

But why does IAF needs Apache helicopters when it should start with Army?

My understanding of this thinking is that IAF believes aviation is their core competence both in terms of engineering and exploitation of new aviation technology.

This is from a pre-Vietnam war era thought process, which is bound to change once India moves to theatre command concept on the ground.

This continues because the revaluation is happening in silos.

Once the institution of CDS settles down, I hope combined discussions will start.

I think starting point for this debate would be the realisation that next full fledged war with pak is not going to be a 1:1 war but rather 1:1.5 war I.e IA will be fighting both paki regulars and paki tangos at the same time. right now IA command assume .5 as jihadis in Kashmir context, I am saying that .5 will be paki jihadis on pak soil.

And lastly our CAS seems to be in the context of regular warfare, hopefully out military planners take into consideration irregular warfare as well.

 

[Indrajit]

. we don't have money to buy Tejas or Chetak/cheetah replacement .. similarly with ak203, ....

This is a pro that I’m not sure is really in the minds of our leadership. A cess of 1 or 2 rupees on fuel marked specifically for defence would have given us far more money than we complain about now. It hasn’t happened because it’s on no one’s priority.

 

[south block]

India Rising given replied to South block on the question of 6 Apache
View attachment 43405

apni marzi se hi Hain ---- source do Bhai iska with price.

 

[abhay rajput]

Don’t agree with this argument.

Tejas has not completed its trials, SP order is yet to be fulfilled. MK1A concept introduced in 2016. AESA ELTA decision taken only recently.

Cheetah/Chetak replacement LUH has not completed its trials. they started working on it in 2016.

AK203, we don’t know the full story yet. But American Dalal lobby did create rumours against Russians before the visit of American president.

These deals we are seeing now are part of decisions taken in 2016, part of filling gaps in defence readiness using imports.

Sir what about simple Tejas, hal lch no funds, funds have not been released and IAF has yet to pay for its services to hal and it's a huge amount , I don't remember the exact amount.. IAF should replace those ancient avro aircraft, cheetha/Chetak, and mig21. Instead of buying expensive helicopters. Same with nasams2 when we have spyder and Akash Sam..our new submarines have decades old torpedoes.. I see the military modernisation as same as the Congress.. remember that afcat was completed in Congress regime.. they have procured way more aircrafts than (su30) nda , more importantly they had guts in the foreign policy which this government hasn't.. you might believe this government take care of Kashmir but now our government is becoming a whore for Russia/USA and now maybe french...
And as far as modernisation goes any sane person will conclude that IAF needs fighter jets and awacs not attack helicopters as stop gap .
Let agree to disagree ..

 

[Akula]

apni marzi se hi Hain ---- source do Bhai iska with price.

https://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/india-support-direct-commercial-sale-ah-64e-apache-helicopters
Lo Bhai source

 

[ezsasa]

Sir what about simple Tejas, hal lch no funds, funds have not been released and IAF has yet to pay for its services to hal and it's a huge amount , I don't remember the exact amount.. IAF should replace those ancient avro aircraft, cheetha/Chetak, and mig21. Instead of buying expensive helicopters. Same with nasams2 when we have spyder and Akash Sam..our new submarines have decades old torpedoes.. I see the military modernisation as same as the Congress.. remember that afcat was completed in Congress regime.. they have procured way more aircrafts than (su30) nda , more importantly they had guts in the foreign policy which this government hasn't.. you might believe this government take care of Kashmir but now our government is becoming a whore for Russia/USA and now maybe french...
And as far as modernisation goes any sane person will conclude that IAF needs fighter jets and awacs not attack helicopters as stop gap .
Let agree to disagree ..

You are all over the place mate..

Adding to what I said before:

Avro replacement is C295, which is again a foreign maal.

NASAMS2 is not in the same category as spyder and Akash.

Varunastra torpedoes inducted.

all foreign policy experts disagree with you on the point that NDA does not show guts in foreign policy.

I’ll put it this way, there is a priority list provided by forces to the govt. The list of primarily first come first serve. Any line item which the forces are 100% sure , procurement is going ahead. If forces need clarity or negotiations on line items like LCA, it is being delayed so that clarity can be reached.

And lastly, if congis were doing their job properly on defence acquisitions we wouldn’t be in this mess in the first place.

 

[aarav]

These Apaches will be all long bow ones assisting and designating for Rudras and LCH ,hell even ground troops ,these six can alone win us Lahore in a strictly land warfare scenario,I don't know why other posters are bothered by this deal ,this deal of Apache for army aviation corps was on horizon from 2016 onwards ,Modi govt talked about Indian army upgradation which was stuck with 90s era gear and he is doing that ,it's not that Desi order books are not filled 5 Akash sqd for AF,83 mk1a Tejas,Pinaka 6 regiments,Dhanush 114 guns with 414 repeat order and there might also be a deal for Raytheon sentinel ISTAR aircraft ,might see some bullshit there as well ,as you can see below the PSU order book is well fill till dec 2019

 

[abhay rajput]

You are all over the place mate..

Adding to what I said before:

Avro replacement is C295, which is again a foreign maal.

NASAMS2 is not in the same category as spyder and Akash.

Varunastra torpedoes inducted.

all foreign policy experts disagree with you on the point that NDA does not show guts in foreign policy.

I’ll put it this way, there is a priority list provided by forces to the govt. The list of primarily first come first serve. Any line item which the forces are 100% sure , procurement is going ahead. If forces need clarity or negotiations on line items like LCA, it is being delayed so that clarity can be reached.

And lastly, if congis were doing their job properly on defence acquisitions we wouldn’t be in this mess in the first place.

I have no problem with foreign maal.. I have problem with why they helicopters for photops.. I have seated in avro myself and it is shit.. where is the contract for c295 .. again nasams useless purchase.. spyder/Akash will do the job fine.. and please don't say that they are for Delhi.. I don't think that nasams can protect Delhi at all... Don't compare to Americans , they have many many more systems complementing nsasm.. different platforms increase cost but I guess IAF doesn't care about that all .. no Varun Astra torpedoes is on scorpene submarines.. they have older German/Soviets ones..
Ak203, ka226 .
Ofcourse all foreign experts have different views because now GOI is whore for Americans/Russians. So there is no different opinion... the day GOI said no you will se my point.. they uses these tactics to blackmail us ..