AH-64E Apache attack helicopter

[IndianHawk]

Difference is in guidance. While Hellfire use Laser guidance as primary source with RADAR as secondary, Helina is based around its MmW and IIR seeker as primary source.

But the biggest difference is, HELLFIRE is a matured missile whereas HELINA is a work in progress.

Hmm
https://m.timesofindia.com/city/jai...sfully-flight-tested/articleshow/66872743.cms

I found this link from wiki.
So we have SANT tested successfully at pokhran in 2018. It has active radar homing and a range of 15-20km.

Standoff Anti Tank guided missile has longer range than hellfire (20km Vs 11-12 km) !!


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[Bhadra]

Hmm
https://m.timesofindia.com/city/jai...sfully-flight-tested/articleshow/66872743.cms

I found this link from wiki.
So we have SANT tested successfully at pokhran in 2018. It has active radar homing and a range of 15-20km.

Standoff Anti Tank guided missile has longer range than hellfire (20km Vs 11-12 km) !!


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There are many differences, though, main being as mentioned. Hellfire comes in many variations of Warhead and guidance types according to the firing platform and nature of target.

Hellfire costs about 1.5 lakhs $ but NAG is about 5 lakh$ per piece ( make the country pauper in the name of indigenous).

Why is this missile called SANT (Spike anti-tank guided missile) ?? It is not NAG ?? Change of name for an elusive success or a clone of IAI Spike ??
Aerial platform missiles can not substitute ground fired missiles and can have very different mission profiles / cost and need aerial platforms.. (agar DRDO ka missile lena hai to pahale DRDO ka helicopter kharido )

Indian Army urgently needs ground launchers and missiles That should be priority rather than other platform missiles unless Hellfire have taken over entire mental makeup of DODOs.

 

[Chinmoy]

Hmm
https://m.timesofindia.com/city/jai...sfully-flight-tested/articleshow/66872743.cms

I found this link from wiki.
So we have SANT tested successfully at pokhran in 2018. It has active radar homing and a range of 15-20km.

Standoff Anti Tank guided missile has longer range than hellfire (20km Vs 11-12 km) !!


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Yes........

But as Toilet Of India suggested, its not Spike Anti Tank Missile. SANT has been designed as a multiplatform and multirole missile as opposite to HELINA which has been developed just as an anti armour missile.

SANT missile would go into the strike jet for CAS role along with Helicopters in future.

Another derivative of SANT is MLPGM.

 

[Bhadra]

Yes........

But as Toilet Of India suggested, its not Spike Anti Tank Missile. SANT has been designed as a multiplatform and multirole missile as opposite to HELINA which has been developed just as an anti armour missile.

SANT missile would go into the strike jet for CAS role along with Helicopters in future.

Another derivative of SANT is MLPGM.

It is "Stand-off Antitank" (SANT) missile ...
http://idrw.org/india-sheds-light-on-new-air-launched-anti-tank-missile-development

 

[Steven Rogers]

There are many differences, though, main being as mentioned. Hellfire comes in many variations of Warhead and guidance types according to the firing platform and nature of target.

Hellfire costs about 1.5 lakhs $ but NAG is about 5 lakh$ per piece ( make the country pauper in the name of indigenous).

Why is this missile called SANT (Spike anti-tank guided missile) ?? It is not NAG ?? Change of name for an elusive success or a clone of IAI Spike ??
Aerial platform missiles can not substitute ground fired missiles and can have very different mission profiles / cost and need aerial platforms.. (agar DRDO ka missile lena hai to pahale DRDO ka helicopter kharido )

Indian Army urgently needs ground launchers and missiles That should be priority rather than other platform missiles unless Hellfire have taken over entire mental makeup of DODOs.

SANT stands for "stand off anti tank"

 

[Bhadra]

It is "Stand-off Antitank" (SANT) missile ...
http://idrw.org/india-sheds-light-on-new-air-launched-anti-tank-missile-development

My and many other's I suppose, dismay is that why not MPATGM - NAG for last 30 years.

If you can not make one or do not want to make one then get aside and let user buy it from someone else ( slavery / abject Majboori in the name of indigenous )

 

[Chinmoy]

My and many other's I suppose, dismay is that why not MPATGM - NAG for last 30 years.

If you can not make one or do not want to make one then get aside and let user buy it from someone else ( slavery / abject Majboori in the name of indigenous )

Sorry to share this heart wrenching news with you.

https://books.google.co.in/books?id=J1vzDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA63&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

This was in 60's.

 

[IndianHawk]

There are many differences, though, main being as mentioned. Hellfire comes in many variations of Warhead and guidance types according to the firing platform and nature of target.

Hellfire costs about 1.5 lakhs $ but NAG is about 5 lakh$ per piece ( make the country pauper in the name of indigenous).

Why is this missile called SANT (Spike anti-tank guided missile) ?? It is not NAG ?? Change of name for an elusive success or a clone of IAI Spike ??
Aerial platform missiles can not substitute ground fired missiles and can have very different mission profiles / cost and need aerial platforms.. (agar DRDO ka missile lena hai to pahale DRDO ka helicopter kharido )

Indian Army urgently needs ground launchers and missiles That should be priority rather than other platform missiles unless Hellfire have taken over entire mental makeup of DODOs.

I noted the correct name in my post.
And where are you getting helina or SANT prices?

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[Bhadra]

I noted the correct name in my post.
And where are you getting helina or SANT prices?

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I knew someone is going to ask me that :

"The Nag missile costs about $500,000 USD per unit[5]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nag_(missile)#cite_ref-auto2_5-2

 

[Bhadra]

I noted the correct name in my post.
And where are you getting helina or SANT prices?

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Thanks for telling me that DRDl is actually working on ATk missile not only after IGMPD started but for last 50 years.
And still they have failed man a basic MPATGM ? And still have gumption to block imports. So who is elephant in the room?

 

[Longewala]

Thanks for telling me that DRDl is actually working on ATk missile not only after IGMPD started but for last 50 years.
And still they have failed man a basic MPATGM ? And still have gumption to block imports. So who is elephant in the room?

Plaaf were flying j-7 for 30 years.

By your logic they should have shut down their factories instead of "blocking imports" of Russian Su-27.

 

[IndianHawk]

I knew someone is going to ask me that :

"The Nag missile costs about $500,000 USD per unit[5]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nag_(missile)#cite_ref-auto2_5-2

Hmm that's interesting. Could it be function of less production?
Jevelin and hellfire have much higher production number then nag or helina.
More orders and mass production could make price competitive.
Remember most of the cost will be paid in rupee for desi missile as opposed to $ for American ammunition.

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[IndianHawk]

https://m.economictimes.com/news/de...h-over-rs-3600-crore/articleshow/63942467.cms
https://www.indiatoday.in/mail-toda...cted-into-indian-army-soon-1217403-2018-04-22


These link say DAC approved purchase of 300nag missile with 25 namica carriers at 524 cr rupees!

500 cr rupee = 70 million $ approx.

So each nag costs= 0.23 million!! = 2,30,000$
Even when including namica carrier cost.

Remove 25 carrier cost and it's in the same ballpark as jevelin.





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[aarav]

https://m.economictimes.com/news/de...h-over-rs-3600-crore/articleshow/63942467.cms
https://www.indiatoday.in/mail-toda...cted-into-indian-army-soon-1217403-2018-04-22


These link say DAC approved purchase of 300nag missile with 25 namica carriers at 524 cr rupees!

500 cr rupee = 70 million $ approx.

So each nag costs= 0.23 million!! = 2,30,000$
Even when including namica carrier cost.

Remove 25 carrier cost and it's in the same ballpark as jevelin.





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Javelin lost the contest ,it couldn't differentiate targets in the heat of thar

 

[Bhadra]

https://m.economictimes.com/news/de...h-over-rs-3600-crore/articleshow/63942467.cms
https://www.indiatoday.in/mail-toda...cted-into-indian-army-soon-1217403-2018-04-22

​

These link say DAC approved purchase of 300nag missile with 25 namica carriers at 524 cr rupees!

500 cr rupee = 70 million $ approx.

So each nag costs= 0.23 million!! = 2,30,000$
Even when including namica carrier cost.

Remove 25 carrier cost and it's in the same ballpark as jevelin.

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Still costly for a system:

# With minimum range of 400m (that is about half a km).
# Works on Lock on Before Launch - it means the Woods loop starts with detection and acquisition of target based on active IR seeker. Since the target is required to be identifies visually, the range can not be more than 2,5 to 3 km has a 45 kg missile carrying a 9 kg warhead? Why pay for unnecessary extra propulsive weight

 

[IndianHawk]

Still costly for a system:

# With minimum range of 400m (that is about half a km).
# Works on Lock on Before Launch - it means the Woods loop starts with detection and acquisition of target based on active IR seeker. Since the target is required to be identifies visually, the range can not be more than 2,5 to 3 km has a 45 kg missile carrying a 9 kg warhead? Why pay for unnecessary extra propulsive weight

Because it's indegenios and investment into it and operational testing will result in better iterative versions.
Otherwise keep paying dollar bills for foreign equipment forever.

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[Bhadra]

Because it's indegenios and investment into it and operational testing will result in better iterative versions.
Otherwise keep paying dollar bills for foreign equipment forever.

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OK that is fine ... more than 20 years testing is gone..
Sorry, RBI did not print fiat notes for that. They took part of that out of my pocket. After that how do I care if they purchased dollars from that or some DODO toy !

 

[IndianHawk]

OK that is fine ... more than 20 years testing is gone..
Sorry, RBI did not print fiat notes for that. They took part of that out of my pocket. After that how do I care if they purchased dollars from that or some DODO toy !

Unless you are earning dollars for country by exporting something you should better care .

Dollars are earned by hard work of exporters throwing them away when desi equipment is available in rupees is stupidity of highest order .
That's how you end up like Pakistan begging everywhere for foreign reserve.

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[Bhadra]

Unless you are earning dollars for country by exporting something you should better care .

Dollars are earned by hard work of exporters throwing them away when desi equipment is available in rupees is stupidity of highest order .
That's how you end up like Pakistan begging everywhere for foreign reserve.

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Let us not link "Foreign Exchange" theory and production theory of "Economy of Scale" to research and innovation. That is not the job of DRDO and OFB, nor is that a matter that rests with MoD. All these institutions have a job cut out for them - mainly research and innovation and they should do what they are being paid for. The so called Indian defence products called "Indianegious" are results of 80% imports in dollars.

We have reached a stage where "indigenous" has become anti modernisation measure.

Let us leave the monetary theory of Exchange Economics to Ministry of Finance.

 

[IndianHawk]

Let us not link "Foreign Exchange" theory and production theory of "Economy of Scale" to research and innovation. That is not the job of DRDO and OFB, nor is that a matter that rests with MoD. All these institutions have a job cut out for them - mainly research and innovation and they should do what they are being paid for. The so called Indian defence products called "Indianegious" are results of 80% imports in dollars.

We have reached stage a stage where "indigenous" has become anti modernisation measure.

Let us leave the monetary theory of Exchange Economics to Ministry of Finance.

It doesn't work that way. Most indian products have way higher indigenous content than what you are suggesting.

Innovation and research happens gradually.
You build something and then test it in field and then improve it in successive iteration. Once you achieve desired profile you mass produce to bring cost down. All major powers do this from US to Russia and even China .

Going for imports breaks the entire cycle and destroys feedback + funding loop.

Foreign reserve are always at play for a nation that imports 80% of its oil. This stark reality can not be neglected. Unless India achieves energy security and removes its oil import dependency savings hard earned dollars is a sacred duty of GOI.

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