BAE did offer the FH77 BO5 L52 to the Indian Army and the gun participated in various trials since 1999. But the Indian govt., due to the bofors scam, avoided giving the order to Bofors though it had emerged as the clear winner.The previous UPA govt would never have bought the Bofors gun even if they had been offered for free by BAE. Not sure if this govt would indeed buy it. But nevertheless the offer to manufacture the M777 is a good one indeed. For both the Indian govt and BAE its a win-win situation. For Indian govt since they have not bought any artillery and for BAE they have nothing to loose as they would be shutting down their plant anyway as they have no order's.
After M777 all eyes on Kalyani group ultra-light howitzers
- Thread starter Jagdish58
- Start date
PaliwalWarrior
Regular Member
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2014
- Messages
- 844
- Likes
- 319
not a good idea
i dint know what is so unique in make in india proposals in defence
'coz as per policy for procurement under make in india
most of the 80% of the order nos are to be made in india
so what is new on offer ?
why not give them - the below mentioned a chance why import ?
ultra light howitzer from Bharat Forge
the army was supposed to have started trials by september 2014 \\
one Ultralight gun from bharat forge - compeltely indian is ready
one ultralight gun with 155MM will get ready by jun 2015
why not test them and order them ?
why import at more than double the costs ?
M777 = import costs = 700 million $ for 145 guns = 4.8 million/ piece
Kalyani guns = current one costs 2 million / piece
why not allow bharat forge to bid ?
will avoid single vendor competition and give us best rates ?
Indian Bofors: Auto components leader Bharat Forge turns focus to defence technology, ready with advanced guns
Satish John & Ashutosh R Shyam, ET BureauSep 11, 2014, 10.01AM IST
["‹IMG]
(Bharat Forge has also"¦)
MUMBAI: Flashback to 1999, and the Kargil war. The military is forced to abort missions due to heavy casualties. Then it decides to deploy the controversial Bofors gun to destroy Pakistani outposts from various vantage points. The strategy pays off, but the military realises it will soon run out of ammunition to feed the howitzers.
["‹IMG]
At the urging of army commanders, the defence ministry turns to Baba Kalyani and his company Bharat Forge to make shells for its Bofors 155mm howitzers. Kalyani, chairman of the Bharat Forge Group, recalls how the company got the "emergency order" to make 1 lakh shells. That's how the company's ability to turn out high-quality products at short notice, which helped burnish its global reputation in the auto parts industry, came to play a role in history.
More than a decade since then, the group led by flagship Bharat Forge is ready with artillery equipment that the Indian defence forces will soon start testing. This puts it nicely in place to take advantage of the Narendra Modi government's initiative to encourage greater private participation in the defence sector.
"A lot of emphasis on local manufacturing of defence products has been put by the current government. Thus, companies like us, who've taken defence seriously, are now production-ready," Kalyani told ET in an exclusive interview.
The government has also opened up the sector to more overseas investments to persuade foreign companies to transfer technology to Indian firms. To those who would question the competence of a forging company entering the high-tech defence space, Kalyani said manufacturers such as Bharat Forge are especially well-qualified to do so.
"Companies like us from basic industries such as metallurgy and forging are the ones that are engaged in defence worldwide," he reasoned. For its artillery equipment venture, the Indian company has a joint venture with Elbit Systems, an Israeli defence equipment maker. The venture will initially work on the 155mm howitzer modernisation programme.
Bharat Forge has also built a howitzer from scratch that Kalyani says has far greater firepower than even the Bofors gun that's currently in use. "Our artillery gun would be better than Bofors," he asserted.
"On the operational parameter, it is better in terms that it can move at 25 km an hour on its own, and the gun would take 52 calibre rounds compared with the 39 calibre of Bofors. It would have 'steer by wire', which the Bofors guns do not possess," he said.
["‹IMG]By late September or early October, the Indian Army will start testing Bharat Forge's artillery equipment. An ultra light gun will be ready for testing by late September while trials of the 155mm artillery gun will start by December. A 155mm ultra light gun will be ready for testing by the middle of next year.
The company is also actively scouting for opportunities in the small arms space, although the government is yet to give permission to private companies to manufacture such weapons. Bharat Forge decided to diversify away from the automobile sector after the global economic turmoil hit in 2008 and plant capacity had to be idled.
"We did a couple of things. We tightened costs and adopted lean manufacturing processes. We invested heavily in R&D to develop new products" to mitigate the effects of the slump. But "when the Indian economy got battered, we too got battered in the process". This forced the company to look at sectors it could enter by leveraging its metallurgical and forging prowess. Components for the shale gas fracking, aerospace, offshore oil & gas exploration and defence industries were shortlisted.
While bets on offshore oil & gas and shale gas have paid rich dividends thanks to orders from US companies, components for aerospace equipment will need more time to develop and test. The company will focus on India for its defence equipment strategy over the next decade.
"Unless we are recognised in the domestic market, who will acknowledge us abroad?" Kalyani asked. The defence market is a potentially massive one. India's defence imports are currently worth about $20 billion a year, accounting for about 70-75 per cent of its total requirements, Kalyani said.
Along with the offset clause, any other mandatory local manufacturing requirements would be a very big opportunity for Indian companies. An offset clause relates to the local-manufacturing pledge an overseas company needs to make in return for orders. Kapil Singh and Nishit Jalan of Nomura didn't put a number to the defence opportunity in a July 30 research report.
"With the focus of the Indian government on local sourcing and hike in FDI in defence to 49 per cent, the revenue opportunity for the company would be very large but difficult to build in our earnings estimates," they said.
i dint know what is so unique in make in india proposals in defence
'coz as per policy for procurement under make in india
most of the 80% of the order nos are to be made in india
so what is new on offer ?
why not give them - the below mentioned a chance why import ?
ultra light howitzer from Bharat Forge
the army was supposed to have started trials by september 2014 \\
one Ultralight gun from bharat forge - compeltely indian is ready
one ultralight gun with 155MM will get ready by jun 2015
why not test them and order them ?
why import at more than double the costs ?
M777 = import costs = 700 million $ for 145 guns = 4.8 million/ piece
Kalyani guns = current one costs 2 million / piece
why not allow bharat forge to bid ?
will avoid single vendor competition and give us best rates ?
Indian Bofors: Auto components leader Bharat Forge turns focus to defence technology, ready with advanced guns
Satish John & Ashutosh R Shyam, ET BureauSep 11, 2014, 10.01AM IST
["‹IMG]
(Bharat Forge has also"¦)
MUMBAI: Flashback to 1999, and the Kargil war. The military is forced to abort missions due to heavy casualties. Then it decides to deploy the controversial Bofors gun to destroy Pakistani outposts from various vantage points. The strategy pays off, but the military realises it will soon run out of ammunition to feed the howitzers.
["‹IMG]
At the urging of army commanders, the defence ministry turns to Baba Kalyani and his company Bharat Forge to make shells for its Bofors 155mm howitzers. Kalyani, chairman of the Bharat Forge Group, recalls how the company got the "emergency order" to make 1 lakh shells. That's how the company's ability to turn out high-quality products at short notice, which helped burnish its global reputation in the auto parts industry, came to play a role in history.
More than a decade since then, the group led by flagship Bharat Forge is ready with artillery equipment that the Indian defence forces will soon start testing. This puts it nicely in place to take advantage of the Narendra Modi government's initiative to encourage greater private participation in the defence sector.
"A lot of emphasis on local manufacturing of defence products has been put by the current government. Thus, companies like us, who've taken defence seriously, are now production-ready," Kalyani told ET in an exclusive interview.
The government has also opened up the sector to more overseas investments to persuade foreign companies to transfer technology to Indian firms. To those who would question the competence of a forging company entering the high-tech defence space, Kalyani said manufacturers such as Bharat Forge are especially well-qualified to do so.
"Companies like us from basic industries such as metallurgy and forging are the ones that are engaged in defence worldwide," he reasoned. For its artillery equipment venture, the Indian company has a joint venture with Elbit Systems, an Israeli defence equipment maker. The venture will initially work on the 155mm howitzer modernisation programme.
Bharat Forge has also built a howitzer from scratch that Kalyani says has far greater firepower than even the Bofors gun that's currently in use. "Our artillery gun would be better than Bofors," he asserted.
"On the operational parameter, it is better in terms that it can move at 25 km an hour on its own, and the gun would take 52 calibre rounds compared with the 39 calibre of Bofors. It would have 'steer by wire', which the Bofors guns do not possess," he said.
["‹IMG]By late September or early October, the Indian Army will start testing Bharat Forge's artillery equipment. An ultra light gun will be ready for testing by late September while trials of the 155mm artillery gun will start by December. A 155mm ultra light gun will be ready for testing by the middle of next year.
The company is also actively scouting for opportunities in the small arms space, although the government is yet to give permission to private companies to manufacture such weapons. Bharat Forge decided to diversify away from the automobile sector after the global economic turmoil hit in 2008 and plant capacity had to be idled.
"We did a couple of things. We tightened costs and adopted lean manufacturing processes. We invested heavily in R&D to develop new products" to mitigate the effects of the slump. But "when the Indian economy got battered, we too got battered in the process". This forced the company to look at sectors it could enter by leveraging its metallurgical and forging prowess. Components for the shale gas fracking, aerospace, offshore oil & gas exploration and defence industries were shortlisted.
While bets on offshore oil & gas and shale gas have paid rich dividends thanks to orders from US companies, components for aerospace equipment will need more time to develop and test. The company will focus on India for its defence equipment strategy over the next decade.
"Unless we are recognised in the domestic market, who will acknowledge us abroad?" Kalyani asked. The defence market is a potentially massive one. India's defence imports are currently worth about $20 billion a year, accounting for about 70-75 per cent of its total requirements, Kalyani said.
Along with the offset clause, any other mandatory local manufacturing requirements would be a very big opportunity for Indian companies. An offset clause relates to the local-manufacturing pledge an overseas company needs to make in return for orders. Kapil Singh and Nishit Jalan of Nomura didn't put a number to the defence opportunity in a July 30 research report.
"With the focus of the Indian government on local sourcing and hike in FDI in defence to 49 per cent, the revenue opportunity for the company would be very large but difficult to build in our earnings estimates," they said.
vajradatta
Regular Member
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2016
- Messages
- 13
- Likes
- 11
The M777 which just got "final" approval is one-of-a-kind for the moment and our mountain strike corps are toothless without them. When the Kalyani gun comes, wonderful, we will order them by the hundreds but till then we cannot remain without something in the pipeline. Too often we have been in that situation and no more. Remember "LCA will replace MiGs"? We are still waiting after 20 years with no LCA and no MiG replacement. It remains to be seen exactly what kind of ultralight 155mm howitzer they are making but if it were easy, there would have been more than just the M777 out there by now. China has only just put one out there and I don't know if its in production but that increases the urgency for us. I put the "final" in parenthesis because it has been in this condition many times before over the past 5 years while our babus and netas played out their excruciating tragi-comedy in s-l-o-w motion, sipping tea and copee along the way. What a useless bunch we have been cursed with.
Last edited:
Butter Chicken
Senior Member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2016
- Messages
- 9,582
- Likes
- 68,688
Kalyani group should get order of atleast 100 howitzers,they are a private firm which designed,developed,made in India and must be rewarded!
- Joined
- May 26, 2010
- Messages
- 31,122
- Likes
- 41,042
Kalyani do deserve its 155mm guns into Army`s units, Dhanush alone cannot deliver in numbers in next 5 years..
Not about the require 144 numbers, But large replacement of 130mm M46 field guns.
Not about the require 144 numbers, But large replacement of 130mm M46 field guns.
vajradatta
Regular Member
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2016
- Messages
- 13
- Likes
- 11
Don't know why the Kalyani Garuda 105 light gun based on the Mandus Hawkeye is not yet inducted into the mountain formations. They are well tested and, being mounted on pickup trucks, seem to be perfect for shoot and scoot, giving opposing fire no time to zero in. The existing mountain guns (105 IFG) are well thought of with excellent range and will obviously remain in service for a long time but they need to be dug in after being towed into place, making them sitting ducks for artillery locating radars. The Kalyani Garuda will make an excellent insurance policy.
Butter Chicken
Senior Member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2016
- Messages
- 9,582
- Likes
- 68,688
no commision for lobbyists and dalals
- Joined
- May 26, 2010
- Messages
- 31,122
- Likes
- 41,042
Kalyani 105mm based Systems is actually modified 105mm IFG made by OFB.
- Joined
- May 26, 2010
- Messages
- 31,122
- Likes
- 41,042
This system was design at request of BSF, I hope Kalyani.co could make some changes in it..
They already have done a great work with 4x4 105mm SPG.
aditya g
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2014
- Messages
- 1,962
- Likes
- 4,651
What is the use case for SPH in BSF? They will not be maneuvering into enemy lands backed by arty fire assault.
They can begin with 130 mm Catapult system to begin with. Or at least 106 mm RCL and BMP based mortars:
They can begin with 130 mm Catapult system to begin with. Or at least 106 mm RCL and BMP based mortars:
This system was design at request of BSF, I hope Kalyani.co could make some changes in it..
They already have done a great work with 4x4 105mm SPG.
- Joined
- May 26, 2010
- Messages
- 31,122
- Likes
- 41,042
Asking other forces for their support is a ugly business even if its attached with it, Indian system for coordination between two different forces is old and complex consisted of many obstacles and even the conformation reached their is not guarantee that required help will be available, Need for fire-support is always urgent and fast and one who is wise will be not dependent on other to provide it so through this chain of line and could prove costly if one dare to do so.
Its hard to say why BSF need for both tracked and wheeled Light SPG, Their needs and doctrine are different Army.
Their budget is not large unlike Army, Given that they did ordered 105mm tracked on lighter and less expensive chassis so does wheel and Armored fighting vehicle, For the custom requirement they are looking at in house war design agencies who can supply steady flow of spares and design changes when needed.
Both project were conceived during 2008 and prototyping during 2012, Interestingly the choice of chassis for both vehicle are same but shell are different, Probably trying to bring spare commonality in cheap.
Kalyani and TATA with collaboration with OFB can do lot better, If they successfully mount a 105mm turret on TATA design with Kalyani and co`s recoil dampers and light design. Of course i am only imagining this.
Its hard to say why BSF need for both tracked and wheeled Light SPG, Their needs and doctrine are different Army.
Their budget is not large unlike Army, Given that they did ordered 105mm tracked on lighter and less expensive chassis so does wheel and Armored fighting vehicle, For the custom requirement they are looking at in house war design agencies who can supply steady flow of spares and design changes when needed.
Both project were conceived during 2008 and prototyping during 2012, Interestingly the choice of chassis for both vehicle are same but shell are different, Probably trying to bring spare commonality in cheap.
Kalyani and TATA with collaboration with OFB can do lot better, If they successfully mount a 105mm turret on TATA design with Kalyani and co`s recoil dampers and light design. Of course i am only imagining this.
Last edited:
aditya g
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2014
- Messages
- 1,962
- Likes
- 4,651
I think you are quite correct viz inter force cooperation. Which is a shame but true.
MHA in general has been a steady buyer of Indian (i.e. OFB) maal, which is a good approach as you should save your best for the 3 services.
MHA in general has been a steady buyer of Indian (i.e. OFB) maal, which is a good approach as you should save your best for the 3 services.
Asking other forces for their support is a ugly business even if its attached with it, Indian system for coordination between two different forces is old and complex consisted of many obstacles and even the conformation reached their is not guarantee that required help will be available, Need for fire-support is always urgent and fast and one who is wise will be not dependent on other to provide it so through this chain of line and could prove costly if one dare to do so.
Its hard to say why BSF need for both tracked and wheeled Light SPG, Their needs and doctrine are different Army.
Their budget is not large unlike Army, Given that they did ordered 105mm tracked on lighter and less expensive chassis so does wheel and Armored fighting vehicle, For the custom requirement they are looking at in house war design agencies who can supply steady flow of spares and design changes when needed.
Both project were conceived during 2008 and prototyping during 2012, Interestingly the choice of chassis for both vehicle are same but shell are different, Probably trying to bring spare commonality in cheap.
Kalyani and TATA with collaboration with OFB can do lot better, If they successfully mount a 105mm turret on TATA design with Kalyani and co`s recoil dampers and light design. Of course i am only imagining this.
HariPrasad-1
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2016
- Messages
- 9,602
- Likes
- 21,068
Kalyani is already making 105 mm field gun weighing just 900 KG for a range of 18 KM. Earlier guns used to weigh 4.1 ton with 17 KM range. Kalyani gun can be fitted on jeeps and can be carried by choppers. It has given India an unparalleled flexibilty and mobility in fire power. Kalyani just have to make it a 155 caliber. kalyanis are very fast in making final product ready. I am hopeful of next year dead line.Sir the tech and material we are looking for is too complex ... and this will be our first attempt to attain it ... Once the product is out we wil know but these then one thing can be only expected is that the finished product is good...
but what were u try to say was a claim or a fact which had no support...
Private public what you said is true but even major projects of private firms can also fail..... Hope this time is prooves and is successful...
Notelease remove the duplicate quote...
HariPrasad-1
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2016
- Messages
- 9,602
- Likes
- 21,068
Do you know anything of excellent 105 mm baba kalyani field gun? An awesome gun which has changed the whole dimension of artillery warfare.
Prashant12
Senior Member
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2014
- Messages
- 3,027
- Likes
- 15,002
----------------------------------------------
Aghore_King
Regular Member
- Joined
- May 8, 2017
- Messages
- 460
- Likes
- 1,121
Excellent....when will it be ready for trials .....????
----------------------------------------------
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2016
- Messages
- 5,718
- Likes
- 11,618
I was watching baba kalyani interview,What a guy he is.
I am proud that i have studied(though left midway) from the same institution as him(bits pilani mutyhafuckas
).
He mentioned They can produce 1 gun each day if army wants its orders to be fulfilled on emergency basis.H ealso mentioned that india cannot build a jet engine.
The future of defence industry is private sector.
I am proud that i have studied(though left midway) from the same institution as him(bits pilani mutyhafuckas
).He mentioned They can produce 1 gun each day if army wants its orders to be fulfilled on emergency basis.H ealso mentioned that india cannot build a jet engine.
The future of defence industry is private sector.
sthf
Senior Member
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2016
- Messages
- 2,271
- Likes
- 5,327
Can anyone read what's written on the gun?
----------------------------------------------
I think I can read "155/39" & "system".
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2010
- Messages
- 4,654
- Likes
- 8,364
| Thread starter | Similar threads | Forum | Replies | Date |
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
BAE Systems will be delivering two out of 145 M777 ultra lightweight howitzer Guns | Indian Army | 1 | |
| W | M777 ultra-light howitzers to Indian Army | Indian Army | 136 | |
| W | US Plans To Sell M777 Howitzers To India | Indian Army | 2 | |
|
India tells US, Can't buy M777 howitzer due to Price Hike | Indian Army | 19 |
