Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft is Perfect Solution for India’s 5th Generation Fighter Problem

Khagesh

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AMCA will not be reality till 2030-35, by then our requirements will grow and the world will also progress and have better aircrafts.
Yes, IAF has the motto of having everything imported but i started having some faith in the current Govt which made IAF accept LCA Tejas.
I donot know which Govt will be by the time AMCA will become reality but I hope by then IAF will understand the importance of self reliance.
Order for the LCA is only because it was a cheap and the deck has to be cleared for the real money minting machine, the 300 single engined airplane deal. The order is a consolation prize handed out by those who killed the project.

The will to go local can be made out from the slow move on the AMCA.
 

Pulkit

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Order for the LCA is only because it was a cheap and the deck has to be cleared for the real money minting machine, the 300 single engined airplane deal. The order is a consolation prize handed out by those who killed the project.

The will to go local can be made out from the slow move on the AMCA.
The deal for the single engine is yet not completed and so is teh case with order of LCA Tejas.
Over the next 15 years India is gonna need more than 400+ Aircrafts and they all cannot come from the single source.
LCA is meant to be the work horse here just like the Mig 21. All remaining are gonna be there to project power.
Our Squad is done to 32-33 (18 per) which is gonna further deteriorate over the upcoming years.
Bad availability rate of Su(improved marginally recently) just adds up to it.
The Tejas being ordered is not a consolation prize, its a measure taken to stop further drop in the aircraft count.
I am hoping FOC to be completed with in this year and we go into mass production in 2018 which will help us maintaion the squad size at 33 and prevent further decrease and as Rafale will be joining by 2021 will be stable till 2021 post which we can add strength to the forces.

I do not see us growing squad size till 2025, till then we will only be replacing A/c.
 

Pulkit

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AMCA is in second stage of development. A scaled prototype is in the making. Once aerodynamic and radiation tests are done design will be frozen.
As i said It is still on drawing board. Prototyping is a part of it. They will revisit the drawing board various times during this course.
To test it now they need not create prototypes we have advanced systems to do that and make this activity quicker.
We can't be super power with borrowed weapons.
no we cannot be, that's why said appear to be one. Thats gonna be our deterrence.
Yes we do have an alternative, its called AMCA.
How can AMCA be its alternative. FGFA after being ready is still 3-4 years away (current version) AMCA which will only be ready by 2035 cannot be its alternative.:facepalm:
 

Pulkit

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I do not believe in the weight clas BS,
Weight Does matter .... It impacts the load , range and operational ability
I just believe in the capability of the plane and its ability,
If there is say a B-1 plane with ability to destroy anything in air and maintain a sanisited radius of 400 kms around it, I would take it anytime against an excellent dog fighter,
If you can shoot the dog from a distance, no need to dog fight,
You yourself said "IF" . Yes today is not a age of Dog fights with all the kill rate of BVR but that example cannot be taken as universal.
The weight classes are the BS brought by IAF to get Rafale., We already have MMRCA in MiG-29 so why was IAF crying about Medium Weight etc?
I agree, they have diversified IAF to extreme. It makes it difficult to maintain and manage.
Weight is very important when its about carrier operation, but when its land based the important thing is the range and the load can carry and how well it can take care of itself
Its not true, If thats the case we nee dnot have medium and heavy aircrafts anywhere in the world. We have vast borders to defend we need a mix . Light and Heavy. i never believed in an idea of Medium A/C.
Rafale is Medium MRCA but in Pokhran was taken down by Su-30 MKI, evem Eurofighter was taken down in exercises by su-30 MKI, and yet, Rafale is considered Superior, funny, And with both Rafale and Su-30 MKI getting recent upgrades the superiority will be maintained
Rafale is not considered superior than SU, atleast I do not believe that.
 

Pulkit

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The bigger the plane the less maneuverable it might tend to be but for example, compare the Rafale vs Su-30 MKI, Su-30 MKI is bigger and more maneuverable, in pure warload, Rafale is able to do better, but in range + warload, Su-30 is more capable, For example, for attaining 3000 kms range, Rafale would have to use its 5 central wet and heavy pylons for carrying external fuel and might be able to carry just A2A missiles but on other hand for similar range, Su-30 MKI does not need any external fuel tanks, it can do so on its own internal fuel and thus having 8 tons of load .




IAF has no clue or direction to its requirements, The requirement is not really well defined.


Firstly I do not go by the definition of light medium or heavy, just with the range, the avionics and performance,
For small countires like say Singapore or Sri lanka, smaller planes which perform the roles of interceptors are perfect. Range less than 800 kms. and ability to carry till 4-5 tons of load is sufficient for them to ensure the integrity of their air and maritime space. Since these countries are small its easy to concentrate their entire airport at one point of enemy attack without compromising other areas as its not that far to reach the most distant point.

For Big countries like Russia which have a big area, and aspirations, Smaller interceptors becoime useful to defend important cities, but then since the country is big, you need more squadrons to ensure this protection. But on other hand, big planes like Su-30 offer an excellent range and load and thus become force multipliers since these planes have excellent range, a fewer squadrons can do the job of interceptors, The need for dedicated interceptors is done away with, but that raises the cost per sortie. A single engine plane might cost abt US$ 5000 - 8000 per sortie, where are twin engine might be 10000+ per sortie,. Single engine planes are good to ensure short range roles, but the Russian doctrine is to ensure air dominance and to strike deep and ensure that the lines of communication are destroyed. And for such doctrine Su-30 makes more sense even than MiG-35. In Russian AF,. MiG-35 will end up playing the role of interceptors and tactical planes where are the tactical and strategic role will be with Su-30 due to its range + warload ability.

France is a medium country, and for them "Medium" plane was the need of hour. Single engine plane was good for them, but then they would have to maintain a separate fleet of twin engine long range strike planes to ensure the deterrent, So instead of spending money to develop and maintain two sets of planes, they compromised to design a twin engine plane that can handle different roles. But even when Rafale is being produced France is more comfortable using its Mirage fleet, the reason is that cost per sortie is cheaper. Thus it makes more sense to use more Mirage than Rafale. And the proof is that, many of the new Rafales are mothballed and kept in storage/ Its a good logic.
Lets be honest. when you have a new capable plane being produced. And France is forced to buy it (to ensure that Dassault survives) why would you keep them mothballed? Would you not retire the older plane and use the newer ones? Logic seems to suggest that there was a change in plan, and France did F up badly some place. We are talking about this situation where the purchase was cut from 25 per year to 9 per year and yet the newer planes are mothballed !!! There is no task a "heavy" plane and Su-30 MKI cannot do that "Medium" plane like Rafale can. All it needs is a good leadership to direct and a leader with vision, and certainly not followers like in IAF top brass. But consider some long ranges and there Rafale will certainly falter and Su-30 can perform without issues




You would have to argue with many NAK Browne and Raha supporters here for saying that
I am just gonna repeat myself so no fun.
We agreed at few points great....
I need not take on anyone as I said that's what I feel like...
 

TPFscopes

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RAFALEs can deliver Nuclear ammunitions in the hostile territory where our Su-30MKI can't (except 40 units which are specially modified but they are not completely suitable for nuke delivery)
 

A chauhan

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We should start funding the AMCA project with full budget and talk with Russia about FGFA simultaneously, the pace at which the talks are going on will take many years it seems, by then we could raise fund for FGFA, but for now lets invest a good amount of money into AMCA project. This will put Russia in pressure as well.
 

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