ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[BON PLAN]

That is not that much a problem。
1 core engine is delivered to joint venture as a major module for assembly under supervision. The core will not be exposed as piece parts.
2 The relation is not always hostile. Do you forget the Mistral-class amphibious assault ship deal?'
3 Russian do benefit from the cooperation. But it is more about management,certification,reliability/durability/safety standard than technology.

You're right.
But :
1 and 3) To have a complete core allowed to understand some know how and to proceed do some non destroying tests.... very interesting !
2) It was before crimea affair....

 

[Aman kumar]

Why are we discussing engine here...
Thread is about LCA..
Plz stick to topic...

 

[BON PLAN]

Why are we discussing engine here...
Thread is about LCA..
Plz stick to topic...

A plane without an engine is like a cosmonaute without a rocket.

 

[Sancho]

A plane without an engine is like a cosmonaute without a rocket.

And as we all know, LCA is powered by GE 404.

 

[BON PLAN]

And as we all know, LCA is powered by GE 404.

Yes.
But tomorrow?

You don't imagine India accept the offset part of Safran on (Safranised)Kaveri just to be polite.

 

[Aman kumar]

Yes.
But tomorrow?

You don't imagine India accept the offset part of Safran on (Safranised)Kaveri just to be polite.

We have separate thread for Kaveri engine

 

[BON PLAN]

We have separate thread for Kaveri engine

Tejas, Kaveri, GE404. It's not totaly out of subject.

 

[Sancho]

Yes.
But tomorrow?

You don't imagine India accept the offset part of Safran on (Safranised)Kaveri just to be polite.

First of all, DRDO was asked what kind of ToT via offsets they wanted and since they failed with Kaveri and asked for Safran help before, that choice was not something surprising and is limited to DRDO. ADA itself is planing with US engines for AMCA and we already selected the GE 414 for LCA MK2 as well. So gaining know how is the key of reviving Kaveri, not an engine for LCA or AMCA.

Tejas has suffered enough from DRDO and Kaveri and the GE engines are reliable and cost-effective, no need to change things for pride reasons, unless Kaveri offers superior performance and that needs to be proven, not just claimed.

 

[Kshithij]

First of all, DRDO was asked what kind of ToT via offsets they wanted and since they failed with Kaveri and asked for Safran help before, that choice was not something surprising and is limited to DRDO. ADA itself is planing with US engines for AMCA and we already selected the GE 414 for LCA MK2 as well. So gaining know how is the key of reviving Kaveri, not an engine for LCA or AMCA.

Tejas has suffered enough from DRDO and Kaveri and the GE engines are reliable and cost-effective, no need to change things for pride reasons, unless Kaveri offers superior performance and that needs to be proven, not just claimed.

Let us not forget that F404 is underpowered and can't lift Tejas from aircraft carrier with load. Also, let us not forget that F404 can't be made at the pace India needs as it is imported. Finally, let us not forget that defence is not something that can be equated to cost and hence it is not something that can be subjected to foreign political whims

 

[darshan978]

A plane without an engine is like a cosmonaute without a rocket.

you seems like frog in well man
u think m88 is only jet engine??

 

[mattster]

India is nowhere near ready with Kaveri. India just has not invested enough on the Materials technology to successfully develop engine technology. This takes decades of investment in academia, research, and testing and the ability to keep the best talent locally.

 

[Kshithij]

India is nowhere near ready with Kaveri. India just has not invested enough on the Materials technology to successfully develop engine technology. This takes decades of investment in academia, research, and testing and the ability to keep the best talent locally.

India makes AL31FP engine. India is not Turkey or Pakistan. India has made R25, R29 engines in 1970s-1980s. Infrastructure is made by man and that has been in the making in India for some time. India may have been slow but that does not mean India has not been doing anything. So, stop your blabbering about capability. Your rants will never end. According to you India will indefinitely be incapable just because you want it to be so! USA, France, Russia, UK etc are not filled with superhumans who can work better than Indians.

 

[BON PLAN]

u think m88 is only jet engine??

what else? Yes, M88 is only a jet engine (and is used in the TP400 turboprop)

Probably you want to write : "u think Tejas is only jet engine ?" In this case, no. A fighter is not only an engine. But without engine a jet is useless. As a cosmonaut on a space dock waiting the rocket.

 

[BON PLAN]

India is nowhere near ready with Kaveri. India just has not invested enough on the Materials technology to successfully develop engine technology. This takes decades of investment in academia, research, and testing and the ability to keep the best talent locally.

There is a beginning to all thing. We could say India is never so near the end.

 

[Kshithij]

what else? Yes, M88 is only a jet engine (and is used in the TP400 turboprop)

Probably you want to write : "u think Tejas is only jet engine ?" In this case, no. A fighter is not only an engine. But without engine a jet is useless. As a cosmonaut on a space dock waiting the rocket.

He meant to say - 'M88 is not the only jet engine available to India. India has options as to get other jet engine too'.

 

[BON PLAN]

He meant to say - 'M88 is not the only jet engine available to India. India has options as to get other jet engine too'.

sure !

 

[no smoking]

India makes AL31FP engine. India is not Turkey or Pakistan. India has made R25, R29 engines in 1970s-1980s. Infrastructure is made by man and that has been in the making in India for some time. India may have been slow but that does not mean India has not been doing anything. So, stop your blabbering about capability. Your rants will never end. According to you India will indefinitely be incapable just because you want it to be so! USA, France, Russia, UK etc are not filled with superhumans who can work better than Indians.

From R25 to AL31, they were all designed and tested by Soviet. When India got them, they were all mature products: Russian scientists and engineers had fixed all the design faults, quality issues of production line and even the processing of raw materials. There was nothing left for Indian to overcome except staff training. Indians don't even to do any reverse engineering, let alone the basis R&D. The fact that India tested her Kaveri on Russian's test bed tells how much infrastructure was made in India.

France gets where they are today by decades of hard working and huge amount of yearly investments which has been continuing for 60 years. You believe that India can catch up with her in a short period of time with a peanut of costs, well, you are the one claiming that India is filled with superhuman who can work better than the whole world.

 

[sjmaverick]

From R25 to AL31, they were all designed and tested by Soviet. When India got them, they were all mature products: Russian scientists and engineers had fixed all the design faults, quality issues of production line and even the processing of raw materials. There was nothing left for Indian to overcome except staff training. Indians don't even to do any reverse engineering, let alone the basis R&D. The fact that India tested her Kaveri on Russian's test bed tells how much infrastructure was made in India.

France gets where they are today by decades of hard working and huge amount of yearly investments which has been continuing for 60 years. You believe that India can catch up with her in a short period of time with a peanut of costs, well, you are the one claiming that India is filled with superhuman who can work better than the whole world.

Well i am 100% sure on the abilities of a Indian mind which has been proved world over they can be called as super humans read history or see present reality ....still you have a doubt than have a visit to NASA, Sillicon Valley, Top academic institutes of world or R&D labs what i am not sure of though how many of them are working in Indian labs/R&D centres. Why we have not achieved this landmark is combination of various factors including political reasons, colonial rule etc but nobody to blame but ourself.
Long story short :
Capability : yes
Funds: Yes
Intent : Partial
Execution : Struggling

and last two can change within a decade faster than many believe because 1st two are already present.
Dont underestimate the power of a common man

 

[Kshithij]

From R25 to AL31, they were all designed and tested by Soviet. When India got them, they were all mature products: Russian scientists and engineers had fixed all the design faults, quality issues of production line and even the processing of raw materials. There was nothing left for Indian to overcome except staff training. Indians don't even to do any reverse engineering, let alone the basis R&D. The fact that India tested her Kaveri on Russian's test bed tells how much infrastructure was made in India.

France gets where they are today by decades of hard working and huge amount of yearly investments which has been continuing for 60 years. You believe that India can catch up with her in a short period of time with a peanut of costs, well, you are the one claiming that India is filled with superhuman who can work better than the whole world.

Firstly, I am only claiming that India did have the metallurgy to make engines. The design experience may have been missing but manufacturing ability did exist.

Now, India started this Kaveri engine project in 1996, though befire it, there were attempts at making tests on older turbojet engines. India was not fully equipped to develop the engines as there was a shortage of metallurgy laboratory, other machining tools, softwares for testing etc.

India did not sanction funds for testing facility when needed and the team was forced to take the engine to Russia. However, you don't find GTRE testing the engine in Russia anymore. It has been over 20 years since the project started and lot of infrastructure has been created. The existing infrastructure to manufacture engines are very useful in fastening the acquisition of infrastructure

 

[no smoking]

Well i am 100% sure on the abilities of a Indian mind which has been proved world over they can be called as super humans read history or see present reality ....still you have a doubt than have a visit to NASA, Sillicon Valley, Top academic institutes of world or R&D labs what i am not sure of though how many of them are working in Indian labs/R&D centres. Why we have not achieved this landmark is combination of various factors including political reasons, colonial rule etc but nobody to blame but ourself.
Long story short :
Capability : yes
Funds: Yes
Intent : Partial
Execution : Learning

I would put this way:
Capability : beginner
Funds: miserable little
Intent : not strong enough
Execution : full of potential

Dont underestimate the power of a common man

Ironically, common man always overestimates his power.