ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

bose

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India and US are getting into strategic alliance and that will have a long term consequence for the Asia Pacific & IOR region ... Both need each other and are building up their mutual relationship in a gradual manner that brings confidence working with each other... This is true for the Indian Navy more than the Army or Air Force that sees US in a different perspective.

I do not see that US will do or behave in abrupt manner that will rock the ever growing closeness between the two countries ... A navy with 200 warships is an asset to keep on your side ...
 

Shashwat

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T/W ratio of F 18 SH with uprated engine on offer will increase considerable. Right now it is 1.13 vs 1.1 around ( 50% internal fuel ) with increase by around 30-38kn thrust you can see the difference .

Growler is indeed a dedicated ew plane a version of F 18 SH . But saying Rafale have same capability is a joke. May be you can spend a few billion that you have plenty and develop one based on Rafale but currently it's not.

F -18 have RCS of 1 m2 with RAM coating USA provide. That's pretty good

F-18 radar are slightly better and there will always be the option of getting better . USA is using aesa since long.. and they have the best ones.

Radar in Rafale have 800+ T/R i thought. Can you provide a official link ?


Then comes the cost of operation The whole premise of having high lo mix was to reduce the operation expense. As su are expensive to operate enter Rafale and you'll be spending more. Rafale is also carrier capable . And growler are a big asset..

No doubt Rafale is better bird but SH is good too. And industrial advantage will be immense. American restrictions and sanction etc are the only worry.

I am sure whatever the IN go for they will have the best interest in mind for domestic industry too.
Either you are in USAF or cahoots with them to know such intricate details. The ease with which you peddling classified info is nothing but humbug.
 

Flying Dagger

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Flying Dagger

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Either you are in USAF or cahoots with them to know such intricate details. The ease with which you peddling classified info is nothing but humbug.
It's not classified bro but available from the brochures website and article from Boeing etc.

Infact if you think this is classified then i can understand your issues. Take a chill pill.
 

vampyrbladez

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Right but Pakistan isn't Libya bro . To have something like growler will be a great advantage.

Offcourse USA is unreliable one of the reason we went for Rafale. Only the politician can take a call on that.

It's been two decades now may be one more decade to pass and things will clear up. :)
1. Pakistan couldn't react when we bombed them.

2. Indian Navy could buy the SH but that is because IAF and IN requirements are very different. One seeks air superiority over land and the other seeks carrier support to complement it's surface vessels.

3. We have 36 Rafale(s) incoming with 36 more being contracted early next year.
 

Flying Dagger

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1. Pakistan couldn't react when we bombed them.

2. Indian Navy could buy the SH but that is because IAF and IN requirements are very different. One seeks air superiority over land and the other seeks carrier support to complement it's surface vessels.

3. We have 36 Rafale(s) incoming with 36 more being contracted early next year.
1.They reacted the next day anyway what it has to do with having EW capability ?

2. In carrier support one doesn't need air superiority against enemy aircraft?

3. I know about the 36 heard the rumours of 36 probables they won't be able to arrest the total shortfall
 

vampyrbladez

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1.They reacted the next day anyway what it has to do with having EW capability ?

2. In carrier support one doesn't need air superiority against enemy aircraft?

3. I know about the 36 heard the rumours of 36 probables they won't be able to arrest the total shortfall
1. They lost an F 16 and got their AMRAAMs jammed by Israeli EW pods.

2. You don't use naval aircraft to gain air superiority over land bases unless you can field 50+ fighters per carrier like USN does. The jets are for A2G and if necessary A2A as interceptors and air dominance platforms.

3. That's another 2 squadrons. The capabilities they will bring ensure we have force multipliers. For physical squadron numbers, Tejas MK1A will replace the MIG 21 BiS and MIG 27 ML rather splendidly.
 

Flying Dagger

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1. They lost an F 16 and got their AMRAAMs jammed by Israeli EW pods.

2. You don't use naval aircraft to gain air superiority over land bases unless you can field 50+ fighters per carrier like USN does. The jets are for A2G and if necessary A2A as interceptors and air dominance platforms.

3. That's another 2 squadrons. The capabilities they will bring ensure we have force multipliers. For physical squadron numbers, Tejas MK1A will replace the MIG 21 BiS and MIG 27 ML rather splendidly.
1. They fired at Dmax to keep Sukhoi away. What it has to with having a ew warfare capability like growler anyway?

2. That's where you are wrong bro. Rafale also have a naval version so what ? It's not meant for airforce ?? Aircraft are optimised for different role F 18 is used by nation for their airforce too

With BVR capability powerful radar avionic suites low rcs and option of upgraded engine with American as well as European missile like meteor on the card it will be a dominant air power in the sky. It's been discussed before too so let's keep it at that.

3. What will replace who will be decided by IAF and they say they want MMRCA 2 fighter even if it's different. Now lets say they press the need for it then we will get something and if we will be making F 18 then it will make sense to continue with it for airforce requirement too. Similar engine with Tejas AMCA will make sense to go for it with ease of maintenance and replacement in future with indigenous engine.

In short F 18 is a good option too if IN and airforce both goes for it.

If you think Rafale is superior may be yes it is .

You think we don't need a ew warfare capable system like growler ?

I think we do, it will be a great advantage. thanks.
 

vampyrbladez

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1. They fired at Dmax to keep Sukhoi away. What it has to with having a ew warfare capability like growler anyway?

2. That's where you are wrong bro. Rafale also have a naval version so what ? It's not meant for airforce ?? Aircraft are optimised for different role F 18 is used by nation for their airforce too

With BVR capability powerful radar avionic suites low rcs and option of upgraded engine with American as well as European missile like meteor on the card it will be a dominant air power in the sky. It's been discussed before too so let's keep it at that.

3. What will replace who will be decided by IAF and they say they want MMRCA 2 fighter even if it's different. Now lets say they press the need for it then we will get something and if we will be making F 18 then it will make sense to continue with it for airforce requirement too. Similar engine with Tejas AMCA will make sense to go for it with ease of maintenance and replacement in future with indigenous engine.

In short F 18 is a good option too if IN and airforce both goes for it.

If you think Rafale is superior may be yes it is .

You think we don't need a ew warfare capable system like growler ?

I think we do, it will be a great advantage. thanks.
1. Firing at DMax has nothing to do with terminal guidance. Jammer pods disabled AMRAAMs before they hit MKIs. In Rafale, SPECTRA EW can perform SEAD missions! You thus don't need to buy a Growler variant because Rafale is a 2 in 1.

2. Rafale N doesnt have foldable wings. It is also not in production. MIG 29K is an older aircraft and has maxed out it's design space and also not in production.

F 18 SH is in production for a long time (USN ordered 110 for multiyear contract) and has a lot of the features as Rafale like AESA radar with specialization for Naval role and design maturity.

3. Tejas MK2 will come before AMCA and it is essentially a Gripen E/F variant. It will hold the fort till Su 57 gets Item 30 engines and full 270° - 360° AESA radar/antenna coverage and lower RCS and is inducted around 2025-26. AMCA will arrive by 2029-2030 and may even have indigenous engines by then.
 
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Armand2REP

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Jammer pods disabled AMRAAMs before they hit MKIs.
The MKIs evaded by outrunning them which allowed the PAF strike package to escape. Did they even have their jammer pods on? They only bought a limited number and share between several aircraft.
 

Armand2REP

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You need just 1 per strike package. Countermeasures and evasive manuevers were used.
The MKIs were not in a strike package, they were flying CAP and not near enough to each other to use cooperative jamming when they split up for evasion. The RCS of an MKI is so large it is hard enough to mask one of them much less an entire flight.
 

Neptune

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1. They lost an F 16 and got their AMRAAMs jammed by Israeli EW pods.

2. You don't use naval aircraft to gain air superiority over land bases unless you can field 50+ fighters per carrier like USN does. The jets are for A2G and if necessary A2A as interceptors and air dominance platforms.

3. That's another 2 squadrons. The capabilities they will bring ensure we have force multipliers. For physical squadron numbers, Tejas MK1A will replace the MIG 21 BiS and MIG 27 ML rather splendidly.


To be honest those Israeli jammers seem to work like ass in real life. Along with a lot of other Israeli weapons systems, they performed awful in real combat and rely more on hype and powerful lobbying then actual combat effectiveness. I may get a lot of flak here but it’s the truth.

I still remember when an Israeli F-16 was knocked out by a old Syrian S-200 a few years back, the only reasons the Israelis were successful before and after the F-16 downing was because they flew below the S-200s effective engagement range (S-200 can’t hit low flying targets). They did the same thing to a Turkish F-4 Terminator with Israeli jammer in 2012 and did not abhinandan‘s Mig-21 have an Israeli jammer? Israelis still fly low and use standoff munitions against Syrian targets. A few other examples of Israeli weapons flopping would be the Iron Dome which the US now doesn’t want, not surprising considering it often fails to intercept crude unguided rockets the size of automobiles, the Merkava was also exposed in 2006, certainly didn’t live up to the hype. The Israelis seem to have good drones and radars, excellent training, planning and mostly American hardware and Lobbyists including in US Congress. That doesn’t necessarily mean they have some the best avionics.

Maybe I’m wrong, maybe India tested the jammers and found them to be the most effective option they had at the time but those Israeli jammers are hardly battle proven especially compared to modern adversaries.. At this point the Russians may have better jammers considering they jammed US electrics warfare aircraft and GPS signals over Syria, this is not the same jammers Russia was offering in early 2000s. I think India may need to look to replace those jammers, at this point even the US may be a viable option as well as France.

I also think those SU-30s defeated those AMRAAMS became of the range they were fired from and the kinetic performance/counter measures employed by the SU-30.
 
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vampyrbladez

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To be honest those Israeli jammers seem to work like ass in real life. Along with a lot of other Israeli weapons systems, they performed awful in real combat and rely more on hype and powerful lobbying then actual combat effectiveness. I may get a lot of flak here but it’s the truth.

I still remember when an Israeli F-16 was knocked out by a old Syrian S-200 a few years back, the only reasons the Israelis were successful before and after the F-16 downing was because they flew below the S-200s effective engagement range (S-200 can’t hit low flying targets). They did the same thing to a Turkish F-4 Terminator with Israeli jammer in 2012 and did not abhinandan‘s Mig-21 have an Israeli jammer? Israelis still fly low and use standoff munitions against Syrian targets. A few other examples of Israeli weapons flopping would be the Iron Dome which the US now doesn’t want, not surprising considering it often fails to intercept crude unguided rockets the size of automobiles, the Merkava was also exposed in 2006, certainly didn’t live up to the hype. The Israelis seem to have good drones and radars, excellent training, planning and mostly American hardware and Lobbyists including in US Congress. That doesn’t necessarily mean they have some the best avionics.

Maybe I’m wrong, maybe India tested the jammers and found them to be the most effective option they had at the time but those Israeli jammers are hardly battle proven especially compared to modern adversaries.. At this point the Russians may have better jammers considering they jammed US electrics warfare aircraft and GPS signals over Syria, this is not the same jammers Russia was offering in early 2000s. I think India may need to look to replace those jammers, at this point even the US may be a viable option as well as France.

I also think those SU-30s defeated those AMRAAMS became of the range they were fired from and the kinetic performance/counter measures employed by the SU-30.
When you design a countermeasure, you use your own weapons as a frame of reference and then expand the threat library. Israelis use the AIM 120 C5 which Pakis also have. Thus it would be doubly effective against the aforementioned scenario faced by the MKIs.

BTW Bisons don't use the jammers unless as part of a package. So WCO Abhinandan did not have the jammer pod on his MIG 21 that day.
 

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