A Paper Dragon: China's armed forces

Illusive

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Underestimating China would be the biggest mistake of US. They have the economy and the technology, in time they'll get international leverage too.
 

Redhawk

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Underestimating China would be the biggest mistake of US. They have the economy and the technology, in time they'll get international leverage too.
Yes, that would be a mistake. But I don't think the Americans would underestimate the PRC's military as a potential enemy the way, say, the upper and middle echelons of the U.S. military strategically and tactically so drastically underestimated the Vietnamese Communist-nationalist guerrilla movement in South Vietnam and the movement's controller and sponsor, the North Vietnamese, in the early and mid-1960's. The U.S. military's arrogant dismissal of the guerrillas and the North Vietnamese armed forces as "those raggedy-assed little bastards" was a grave and monumental error.
 

Voldemort

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One important thing China lacks is allies. Their best friends in the neighbourhood are Pakistan and North Korea. Both near failed states. If India, Japan and countries with which China has disputes can build up a form of alliance, not necessarily an open military one, China's bullying tactics can be checked to some extent.
 

Redhawk

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One important thing China lacks is allies. Their best friends in the neighbourhood are Pakistan and North Korea. Both near failed states. If India, Japan and countries with which China has disputes can build up a form of alliance, not necessarily an open military one, China's bullying tactics can be checked to some extent.
Then the PRC would certainly charge that they were being encircled by hostile states, as the German Kaiserreich charged the English, French, and Russians just after German unification in 1871 in the wake of the Franco-Prussian War. The PRC will accuse its neighbours of "ganging-up" on her, just as the Kaiser and other Prussian/German figures did after 1871. But it is certainly a better idea than not acting in a concerted, concentrated, and unified manner to check Communist Chinese aggression and provocations. So yes, Voldemort, I agree. Just like the German Kaiserreich of 1871 to 1918, the PRC is an empire in the guise of a national state.
 
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Redhawk

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Underestimating China would be the biggest mistake of US. They have the economy and the technology, in time they'll get international leverage too.
If they don't do something really silly and screw it all up. It has happened before.
 

Compersion

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large and larger the numerics ... theory on failure and applications might not apply - need be applied in other ways
 

anupamsurey

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THOUGH A WELL RESEARCHED ARTICLE, STILL ONE MUST SLEEP WITH ONE EYE OPEN.

underestimating ones foe is foolish enough.
 

Hari Sud

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Read this too:

Infantry: Poor, Poor, Pitiful Us


Infantry: Poor, Poor, Pitiful


December 23, 2014: A Chinese newspaper recently published an article pointing out that, despite all the increased Chinese defense spending not much of it was getting to the infantry. The troops have new camouflage uniforms and assault rifles, but none of the high tech protective gear, rifle accessories, protective gear and communications found on American troops. To demonstrate this the article listed the function and cost of everything a Chinese infantryman carried into combat versus his American counterpart. The cost of equipping a Chinese soldier was under $1,600 versus nearly $18,000 for the American one. The Chinese do without protective vests, high-tech rifle scopes, personal radio, night-vision goggles and GPS. In Chinese infantry companies there are only two radios, a few night vision goggles and not all troops carry compasses with them. Some are known to buy GPS devices with their own money.

These disparities are no secret to Chinese infantry, most of whom have Internet access and have read Chinese language military sites that provide details of what Western troops carry into combat and what a difference is makes. The Chinese infantry are not happy about this disparity and that was apparently why this article appeared despite the heavy censorship of mass media in China.
 

no smoking

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One important thing China lacks is allies. Their best friends in the neighbourhood are Pakistan and North Korea. Both near failed states. If India, Japan and countries with which China has disputes can build up a form of alliance, not necessarily an open military one, China's bullying tactics can be checked to some extent.
First, Any rising power won't find many allies in her neighbourhood: no one like a big guy sitting besides him! Look at India's own neighbourhood, everyone is busy bringing in outsider to balance India's influence.

Second, Indian member in this forum and other forums have been talking about this anti-China alliance for decades. But so far we haven't seen it. Maybe it is the time to think why.
 

CCP

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Read this too:

Infantry: Poor, Poor, Pitiful Us


Infantry: Poor, Poor, Pitiful


December 23, 2014: A Chinese newspaper recently published an article pointing out that, despite all the increased Chinese defense spending not much of it was getting to the infantry. The troops have new camouflage uniforms and assault rifles, but none of the high tech protective gear, rifle accessories, protective gear and communications found on American troops. To demonstrate this the article listed the function and cost of everything a Chinese infantryman carried into combat versus his American counterpart. The cost of equipping a Chinese soldier was under $1,600 versus nearly $18,000 for the American one. The Chinese do without protective vests, high-tech rifle scopes, personal radio, night-vision goggles and GPS. In Chinese infantry companies there are only two radios, a few night vision goggles and not all troops carry compasses with them. Some are known to buy GPS devices with their own money.

These disparities are no secret to Chinese infantry, most of whom have Internet access and have read Chinese language military sites that provide details of what Western troops carry into combat and what a difference is makes. The Chinese infantry are not happy about this disparity and that was apparently why this article appeared despite the heavy censorship of mass media in China.









__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
That " Chinese newspaper" is a joke and it "apologised" publicly after readers pointed out its clueless.

Funny thing happened when this "Chinese newspaper" fight for itself with readers through Weibo(Chinese Twitter). It used a very "Taiwanese" Chinese word "班兵" . Then readers understood which people they were talking with.


(end of the first line)



The link of this story
http://m.china.com/neirong.jsp?threadid=277524490&forumid=1011

followed by 39,632 comments
 
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Redhawk

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All alone

At the same time, China is remarkably lacking in real, dependable allies. In the Pacific alone, the United States can count Japan, Taiwan, Australia, South Korea, New Zealand, and The Philippines as close allies — and maintains cordial relations with others including Malaysia, Vietnam, and Indonesia.

China's list of allies in the Pacific, on the other hand, is a short one. Russia. Globally, China's allies include Pakistan, Zimbabwe, Venezuela, and the countries of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization — Pakistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan. All are despotic or near-despotic states, many are unstable and many have long records of human rights abuses.

Beijing embraces its worst neighbors in part to keep them in check. This worked with Pakistan, but failed with North Korea. In Myanmar, China cozied up with the oppressive military regime only for it to suddenly open up and seek ties with the West and Japan. China's net gain was years of condemnation for supporting the junta — which is to say, a net loss.

Where China has really failed, however, is in simply getting along with nearby countries. Before the recent confrontation with The Philippines over the Ayungin Shoal, relations between Manila and Beijing had never been better. The same went for much of Southeast Asia before China declared sovereignty over 90 percent of the South China Sea.

Even relations with Japan, China's historical enemy, were cordial if staid.

Sometime around 2010, Beijing decided to stop playing nice. China began pushing long-dormant territorial claims — and tried its hardest to split the alliance between Japan and the U.S. China's relations with pretty much every country in East and Southeast Asia have chilled.

It's hard to say what China really hoped to gain. Some argue that China is attempting to "Finlandize" smaller Asian states — that is, intimidate them into expressing neutrality in order to deny them to the Americans. Others argue that China wanted those disputed territories but also fundamentally has a problem with treating other countries as equals.


Whatever the case, China's recent actions have left it largely friendless. Today its most important relationships with other countries are strictly economic in nature.

This has obvious implications for China's military posture. While the U.S. Navy can sail across the Pacific and call on practically dozens of ports, China's warships can sail just outside its territorial waters and, other than the Russian port of Vladivostok, have nowhere to go.

This places China at an enormous strategic disadvantage. Beijing has no allies to provide bases, share burdens, pool intelligence, or lend moral support.
This is quite true. The PRC has very effectively alienated its neighbours.
 

Redhawk

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All those countries together can not march China militarily or economically.
The word is "match". And so what? They are still sovereign nations. Communist Chinese arrogance and boastfulness are tiresome.
 
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Redhawk

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The word is "match". And so what? They are still sovereign nations. Communist Chinese arrogance and boastfulness are tiresome.
The map below shows the historical territorial claims of the Republic of China. The People's Republic of China may maintain the same territorial claims as the ROC, in which case it will bring China, either the PRC or the ROC, into conflict with most of its neighbours.

 
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Redhawk

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Careful, mate. Australia is helpless and has to depend on China.....
Yes, I'm sure the Communist Chinese are going to start a trade war with Australia or nuke us over a mildly uncomplimentary post on Indian Defence Forum.
 
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Redhawk

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Careful, mate. Australia is helpless and has to depend on China.....
What rot! We have massive mineral and agricultural resources for a relatively small population and are in those terms quite a wealthy country, we are anything but helpless.

And we don't have to depend on the PRC. We can feed ourselves. They can't. If anything, they need us, and countries like us, more than we need them.
 
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Sylex21

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All those countries together can not march China militarily or economically.
Is there more to your comment than Neighbors? China's neighbors would crush China without effort if combined, it wouldn't even be a challenge. To think China has even the slightest chance against Russia + Japan + India + Vietnam etc at once... China is neither a match economically nor military compared to it's neighbors combined, and it has virtually no friends in all the world, leaving it nearly as isolated as North Korea and Iran.
 

CCP

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Is there more to your comment than Neighbors? China's neighbors would crush China without effort if combined, it wouldn't even be a challenge. To think China has even the slightest chance against Russia + Japan + India + Vietnam etc at once... China is neither a match economically nor military compared to it's neighbors combined, and it has virtually no friends in all the world, leaving it nearly as isolated as North Korea and Iran.
Chinese GDP > Russia + Japan + India + Vietnam
Chinese PLA >>> Japan + India + Vietnam
Chinese PLA > Russia + Japan + India + Vietnam ( in conventional war)
Russia > Chinese PLA (in nuclear war)

PS. what is the chance of nuclear war between China and Russia?
 

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