A layman's analysis on our last two mmrca contenders

[bengalraider]

If they are unreliable, then who is reliable. 2 days back there was news of F-18 deliveries completed to aussies before scheduled time and on a lesser amount from the contract.

Also all rejoiced when transport aircrafts were delivered.

unreliability is not just measured by delivery schedules, we were denied spares to keep our harriers, jaguars and seakings in the air post pokharan , our mirages and migs however kept flying. that speaks volumes about reliability.

 

[A.V.]

The issue with america and indian setup is this :-

Until and unless any issue affects the american homeland they are least bothered , for ages india was crying about terrorism in kashmir and yet other major world powers did put up a joint declaration about terrorism being present in kashmir from across the border by pak , and to this effect FRANCE , RUSSIA , a couple of central asian republics did speak and put a joint statement between bilateral talks but where was america ?

As soon as 9/11 happened soon america stared thinking about terrorism worldwide , was terrorism not there before ?

The issue here is american foreign policy it dosent meet the requirements of India , the outlook is not similar , at one go cannot say that they will back you in times of need ,

Explain to me why was america asking israel to deny weapon sales to india in late ninetees ? it was because they dont view india as an ally and neither does india .

America is a friendly nation with few common objectives as ours thats it , nothing more like they uses us we must have the same , the systems which we need and in which india will benefit greatly we should buy.

Even today till the next 20 years the indo -american relationship will be just buy and sell.


I can bet my last american dollar if war break out between india and pakistan , and you sent america an SOS for spare part supplies for thie armaments the answer would come as a LETS TALK , LETS SEE , LETS DO THIS , LETS COME TO A CONCLUSION .Israel mounted the laser pods in just 15 days during kargil war and supplied us in emergency , so did our traditional suppliers france and russia , but america will not and its a known fact thats why america is just a friend not an ally .

 

[SpArK]

unreliability is not just measured by delivery schedules, we were denied spares to keep our harriers, jaguars and seakings in the air post pokharan , our mirages and migs however kept flying. that speaks volumes about reliability.

I have answered the nuke scenario earlier.

 

[SpArK]

.Israel mounted the laser pods in just 15 days during kargil war and supplied us in emergency , so did our traditional suppliers france and russia , but america will not and its a known fact thats why america is just a friend not an ally .

We did nt have any us jets for receiving any help.

And yes the biggest help came from Israel, a cleint state of US, whom US has certain control on decisions. ( or will all deny that too)??

 

[Bangalorean]

The Globemaster was delivered on time too, to be fair.

But overall, I agree with A.V. When it comes to the crunch, America will try to play both sides, when it comes to India-Pakistan. Truly, the responses will be "lets talk, lets see, lets de-escalate issues", etc. etc. I don't see America having shown real commitment to India yet. Remember guys, it was just last year that ISRO was taken off the 'entities list'. With all this stuff of 'entity list', 'sanctions', 'India Pakistan equal equal', 'Cashmere nuclear flashpoint', etc. I would find it very hard to trust the US with major stuff like MMRCA, over the long term.

A.V. - now both of us need to hide under chairs and wait for JayATLs response.

 

[sayareakd]

we are discussing who will get contract for MRCA out of the two short listed contender, therefore we should stick to our topic at hand.

 

[SpArK]

we are discussing who will get contract for MRCA out of the two short listed contender, therefore we should stick to our topic at hand.

For that dont we have a dedicated sticky thread?

 

[A.V.]

We did nt have any us jets for receiving any help.

And yes the biggest help came from Israel, a cleint state of US, whom US has certain control on decisions. ( or will all deny that too)??

You are missing the point of my post , i am saying even if you have had american armaments during the kargil war , the supplies would not have come through , its not just me saying this its the view of indian establishment and its proven time and again all over the world, thats the way america approaches its foreign policy.

About Israel its totally different , its a country which has a very strong foreign policy and rather its not the same like ISRAEL is a client state of america its rather opposite at times , giving he amount of influence israel has on american policies at times.Israel is not japan or south korea like ally its way different.

About the israeli help it was major because they wanted to enter the market as new players they had to show some credibility and thats was it.

The whole point even bengalraider raised it its credibility which america still has to earn , just supplying something ahead of schedule is not credibility.its a policy of observation that we see over a period of 100 years america has abandoned india always in times of need and we cannot forget and forgive so easily nwo that we are in the position of some influence.

when india didnt have the $$$ and the market , america didnt come to help india or sell its advanced weapons , they even put an embargo and rejected it , now that india has the $$$ america is sucking up , so let them suck a bit more for we have been abandoned and left to fight our own wars and even even faceoff american influenced opposition in times of war and this has been over a period of 60 years let them suck for atleast 30.

 

[Drsomnath999]

I forgot C-130j were delivered ahead of schedule since we also belong to NAATOOO:shocked:

well plz look my post no 53 ,i had said there is nothing harm in buying force multipliers & conventional weapons ,but no strategic platforms

 

[Drsomnath999]

I forgot C-130j were delivered ahead of schedule since we also belong to NAATOOO:shocked:

i also forgot lca tejas rapid induction due to technological denial by US

 

[SpArK]

You are missing the point of my post , i am saying even if you have had american armaments during the kargil war , the supplies would not have come through , its not just me saying this its the view of indian establishment and its proven time and again all over the world, thats the way america approaches its foreign policy.

About Israel its totally different , its a country which has a very strong foreign policy and rather its not the same like ISRAEL is a client state of america its rather opposite at times , giving he amount of influence israel has on american policies at times.Israel is not japan or south korea like ally its way different.

About the israeli help it was major because they wanted to enter the market as new players they had to show some credibility and thats was it.

The whole point even bengalraider raised it its credibility which america still has to earn , just supplying something ahead of schedule is not credibility.its a policy of observation that we see over a period of 100 years america has abandoned india always in times of need and we cannot forget and forgive so easily nwo that we are in the position of some influence.

when india didnt have the $$$ and the market , america didnt come to help india or sell its advanced weapons , they even put an embargo and rejected it , now that india has the $$$ america is sucking up , so let them suck a bit more for we have been abandoned and left to fight our own wars and even even faceoff american influenced opposition in times of war and this has been over a period of 60 years let them suck for atleast 30.

I agree with $$$ and the recent suck up part. What i dont agree is the client state part.

Yes america didnt come to help us when we didnt had $$$, thats business , they are not running charity nor are any country for that matter.

The opposition we have seen in our very short history was clearly cold war alliances. Times have changed so are the priorities.

We still want US to confront Pakistan and China and today also i have seen people rejoicing US will go after Pakistan after Iraq.

Well all want them to do job's we were supposed to do but fear India will be a client state if we buy jets, but its ok if its heli's or any other weaponary.

You saying establishment dont trust , then why the hell are we buying the most critical part, the GE414 for own fighters?

 

[SHASH2K2]

For a moment lets forget about USA and discuss about TOT offered by EFT and rafael . I feel EFT has better offer for TOT and are ready to trasnfer assembly lines to India itself. We can gain a lot of experience out of this .

 

[SpArK]

i also forgot lca tejas rapid induction due to technological denial by US

You mean the one flying with GE 404??

 

[Drsomnath999]

I have answered the nuke scenario earlier.

later after 2 yrs u would answer iran situation

 

[SpArK]

For a moment lets forget about USA and discuss about TOT offered by EFT and rafael . I feel EFT has better offer for TOT and are ready to trasnfer assembly lines to India itself. We can gain a lot of experience out of this .

Sorry mate UK has been sanctioned us before and has nt moved a finger in favor of us during Kargil..its a client state (proved) of US and uses lots of american parts..

Sorry again ... no EFT

 

[Drsomnath999]

You mean the one flying with GE 404??

well thanks due to US recession & INDIA 's growing defence appetite. & that too after 2 decades

 

[SHASH2K2]

Sorry mate UK has been sanctioned us before and has nt moved a finger in favor of us during Kargil..its a client state (proved) of US and uses lots of american parts..

Sorry again ... no EFT

you are contradicting yourself . what applies to USA should also apply to UK .

 

[SpArK]

well thanks due to US recession & INDIA 's growing defence appetite.

We ordered GE way back in 2003, some seven years back.

 

[SpArK]

you are contradicting yourself . what applies to USA should also apply to UK .

Thanks shash.

That is what exactly ive been saying all along..

 

[Drsomnath999]

We ordered GE way back in 2003, some seven years back.

god knows that too when we would get it ?