A first: US allowed to check Indian warship

[Zebra]

ha ... all it takes is a few photos of chinese talking to indians and it moves opinion that dragon is a friend ??

then they will easily win the psychological war

Indeed, India and China are not friends.

 

[Zebra]

are u serious bro... isnt there difference between on board visit and inspection...??

What are the difference?

Tell me more, please.

To be honest I don't know what they do in 'Inspection'.

BTW, they made it, they used it in past. They know more about this ship then we do.

Now Indian Navy is the second hand owner and user of the ship.

And they want to make sure all are well in it.

And this is the first 'Inspection' after Indian Navy buy this ship?

 

[Zebra]

but does this mean they will come to check our our C-17's, CJ-130's, P8I's, AH-64, M-777's everything?

In one word, 'YES'.

 

[asianobserve]

besides that , India is a big girl now , and she shouldn't be letting the boys look at her parts eh ?

Well, it just so happened that her parts was sold to her by the boys... and the boys prior to selling made it specifically clear that they will subject her parts to regular inspection which she agreed to. She should not have purchased her parts from these boys in the first place if she does not like that it will be inspected by them afterwards. Point is I think pride is healthy but unreasonable pride is "hot air"...

 

[pmaitra]

besides that , India is a big girl now , and she shouldn't be letting the boys look at her parts eh ?

Well, it just so happened that her parts was sold to her by the boys... and the boys prior to selling made it specifically clear that they will subject her parts to regular inspection which she agreed to. She should not have purchased her parts from these boys in the first place if she does not like that it will be inspected by them afterwards. Point is I think pride is healthy but unreasonable pride is "hot air"...

Roma, and AsianObserve; assuming the big girl has something to flaunt, why not show it off? Think of Milena Velba, for e.g..

 

[Known_Unknown]

This is bloody outrageous! IN ships and platforms are sovereign Indian territory and signing an agreement which subjects them to foreign inspections is condemnable at the very least! Is India a client state that we will let a foreign power check our military hardware whenever it deems necessary?!!

Has it taken just 65 years of independence to blunt our memories of being under the foreign yoke! The politicians that signed this agreement should be hanged at the gallows and the bureaucrats who negotiated the terms shot in public squares to deter the creeping development of Mir Jaffers in this country. What sort of a third rate power is India that the use of its frontline, supposedly "state-of-the-art" military equipment is subject to the approvals of a foreign power?!!

Would Russia or China ever allow such inspections of their most advanced military equipment?

I don't care if an agreement was signed or not to let the USG inspect the ship, this is nothing but a shameful subjugation of the country's sovereignty for a mere $50 million! If nothing can be done to prevent future inspections, put a Brahmos into that damn ship and sink it into the Indian Ocean...our pride in our sovereignty is worth much more than the money we paid for that decades old junk.


As for those comparing the visit by the Chinese sailors to the Indian ship to this incident, understand this fundamental difference: In the case of the Chinese, it was a decision taken independently, under no pressure and entirely of Indian volition to allow the Chinese to board and interact with their IN counterparts as a gesture of goodwill and friendship.

In the case of the USS Trenton, the inspections were forced upon the IN by a foreign power and by the Indian government who has abandoned its obligations to protect India's autonomy and sovereignty. The IN should have refused to allow the inspections as they would compromise its operational effectiveness.

 

[ani82v]

This is bloody outrageous! IN ships and platforms are sovereign Indian territory and signing an agreement which subjects them to foreign inspections is condemnable at the very least! ...
I don't care if an agreement was signed or not to let the USG inspect the ship, this is nothing but a shameful subjugation of the country's sovereignty for a mere $50 million! ....

If this was the case, India should not have signed the agreement and inked the deal.
Is that so hard? No point riling up now.

 

[vishwaprasad]

^^ very true...India should have clearly told them in the beginning itself that no such ridiculous EUMA, CISMOA nonsense will be tolerated if US wants to be a supplier of India, we want to buy and are doing payments. US is not doing any charity by allowing India to buy weapons from her. Its her business which is giving them money, creating jobs there and most importantly giving entry to US in Indian arms market establishing good strategic relations between both which in long term will benefit US if they consider growing Chinese influence.

Its not late today also, we can still tell them that if they want future order of P-8I's, C-17's, C-130's (if we want to use option to go for more), AH-64's, M-777's (deals not signed yet I think) then they should take their CISMOA,EUMA crap elsewhere in their client states and not to India...I wont be surprised if such attitude of India will bring them to their knees

 

[Known_Unknown]

If this was the case, India should not have signed the agreement and inked the deal.
Is that so hard? No point riling up now.

I'm not sure if this agreement was debated or approved in Parliament, but if not, then it should have been. It should not be so easy for any elected government to barter away the country's sovereignty.

India looks more and more like another Pakistan in the making when it comes to dealing with the US. It starts with the nail on your pinkie finger, and soon you realize that your entire arm is in the tiger's mouth.

 

[ani82v]

^^ very true...India should have clearly told them in the beginning itself that no such ridiculous EUMA, CISMOA nonsense will be tolerated if US wants to be a supplier of India, we want to buy and are doing payments. US is not doing any charity by allowing India to buy weapons from her. Its her business which is giving them money, creating jobs there and most importantly giving entry to US in Indian arms market establishing good strategic relations between both which in long term will benefit US if they consider growing Chinese influence.

Its not late today also, we can still tell them that if they want future order of P-8I's, C-17's, C-130's (if we want to use option to go for more), AH-64's, M-777's (deals not signed yet I think) then they should take their CISMOA,EUMA crap elsewhere in their client states and not to India...I wont be surprised if such attitude of India will bring them to their knees

Thats a good point. Are there similar clauses for AH-64, P8I, C-17? Don't the people deserve to know about it?
Parliament is in session, our MPs should raise this instead of demanding name changes of the country!

 

[Known_Unknown]

^^A legal "commitment" in the form of an agreement can hardly be used as an excuse when it comes to safeguarding national security. The US itself violates numerous bilateral and international commitments on flimsy grounds.

In the end, if the IN had stood its ground, then the government would have had to back down. I'm not sure if everyone read the whole article, but this line:

An image intensifier highlights the target being sighted and magnifies it to a level of light that allows the trained human eye to interpret them. The digital records of the images sighted through the device can be logged. Theoretically, an inspector can go through the logs to check the images that have been sighted and recorded.

If the Jalashwa was used for recon and it captured images of secret Paki subs or Chinese naval bases, the US would now know that India knows about this just by going through those images. They may then pass on that info to Pak or China thus compromising India's intelligence gathering capability.

National security should override any legal commitments that the GoI makes. It's a given that the politicians that are signing these agreements are utterly ignorant of military matters, but if the IN had stepped in to educate them before the agreement was finalized or even after by refusing permission to the inspectors, this situation could have been avoided.

The IA does put its foot down when it comes to demilitarisation or Siachen, why can't the IN do the same?

 

[vishwaprasad]

ani82v

I think such clause must be there in P8I's, C-17's considering technology. when these americans can put such a clause on 40 years old LPD Jalashwa then there is every reason they will put such clause on highly sensitive technologies like P8-I's...thank god we went for Rafales and kicked their F-18 SH and F-16 IN. We cannot afford to be on their mercy to operate our offensive game changer platforms during the war

 

[Neil]

What are the difference?

Tell me more, please.

To be honest I don't know what they do in 'Inspection'.

BTW, they made it, they used it in past. They know more about this ship then we do.

Now Indian Navy is the second hand owner and user of the ship.

And they want to make sure all are well in it.

And this is the first 'Inspection' after Indian Navy buy this ship?

dude....u are comparing visit by chinese and inspection by americans as same....how is that same...??

 

[Zebra]

dude....u are comparing visit by chinese and inspection by americans as same....how is that same...??

That is what I asked you.

What is the difference?

Once again, I do not know that, you tell me--- what they do in the 'Inspection'.

Why it is so fishy and people cry too much about it.

 

[Zebra]

This is bloody outrageous! IN ships and platforms are sovereign Indian territory and signing an agreement which subjects them to foreign inspections is condemnable at the very least! Is India a client state that we will let a foreign power check our military hardware whenever it deems necessary?!!

Has it taken just 65 years of independence to blunt our memories of being under the foreign yoke! The politicians that signed this agreement should be hanged at the gallows and the bureaucrats who negotiated the terms shot in public squares to deter the creeping development of Mir Jaffers in this country. What sort of a third rate power is India that the use of its frontline, supposedly "state-of-the-art" military equipment is subject to the approvals of a foreign power?!!

Would Russia or China ever allow such inspections of their most advanced military equipment?

I don't care if an agreement was signed or not to let the USG inspect the ship, this is nothing but a shameful subjugation of the country's sovereignty for a mere $50 million! If nothing can be done to prevent future inspections, put a Brahmos into that damn ship and sink it into the Indian Ocean...our pride in our sovereignty is worth much more than the money we paid for that decades old junk.


As for those comparing the visit by the Chinese sailors to the Indian ship to this incident, understand this fundamental difference: In the case of the Chinese, it was a decision taken independently, under no pressure and entirely of Indian volition to allow the Chinese to board and interact with their IN counterparts as a gesture of goodwill and friendship.

In the case of the USS Trenton, the inspections were forced upon the IN by a foreign power and by the Indian government who has abandoned its obligations to protect India's autonomy and sovereignty. The IN should have refused to allow the inspections as they would compromise its operational effectiveness.

Being a Russian ally the so-called sovereign country can attack any other country?

OR, for that also they needs the Uncle's permission?

 

[Zebra]

If the Jalashwa was used for recon and it captured images of secret Paki subs or Chinese naval bases, the US would now know that India knows about this just by going through those images. They may then pass on that info to Pak or China thus compromising India's intelligence gathering capability.

Please see the post which one of the Mod posted, it says that for China, India and US are (already) working together.

Then why they gonna pass on to Pak or China.

 

[Neil]

That is what I asked you.

What is the difference?

Once again, I do not know that, you tell me--- what they do in the 'Inspection'.

Why it is so fishy and people cry too much about it.

well a visit is friendly u can ask for ''what kind of equipment is this and all'' but u dont get excess to all the features of a ship apart from stuff that IN wanna show u...

inspection by US is too see if any equipment sold is not used for any other purpose or copied-have heard that they seal sensitive equipment and during inspection check too see if that seal is intact or not.....

http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/506385.html

U.S. suspicions that South Korea was stealing defense technology began with an incident involving the breaking of seals around the F-15K's "Tiger Eyes" sensor suite

many find it intrusive mainly because no other country or none of our major suppliers have such methods...

 

[LETHALFORCE]

What is the big deal? Remove the things that you don't want USA to see and keep what
USA wants to check. Even with these checks Pakistan has been able to send all US platforms
to China for reverse engineering.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

WOW!!! they finally did it.


SOME DAY YOU WILL GET OUR AGNI UP YOUR @SS FU*K YOU USA.

A DFI warrior in action:

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Indian Navy knew about such inspection before the deal coz this was in the deal..