8,000 Chinese Students Dismissed By Us Schools

[Rashna]

8,000 Chinese students dismissed by US schools


BEIJING: At least 8,000 Chinese students studying in the US have been dismissed from schools last year. A majority 57 per cent were asked to leave because of poor academic performance, according to research done by an US agency that helps students to obtain admission in schools.

The agency, WholeRen, released a white paper discussing results of a survey of Chinese students dismissed at all levels from 2013 to 2015.

The white paper said that academic dishonesty, including cheating in exams and plagiarizing, was the second-largest cause of dismissal, with nearly 23 per cent of dismissed Chinese students expelled for this reason.

The agency which interviewed 1,657 dismissed students found that a low grade-point average was common among undergraduates and postgraduates who were dismissed. About 61 per cent of the dismissed undergraduates had a GPA lower than 2.0, and 72 per cent of the dismissed postgraduates scored lower than 3.0.

Problems faced by the dismissed students include improper learning attitude, mental and physical problems that contributed to poor academic performance, according to the analysis in the white paper.

Maladjustment to the learning environment in the US and insufficient learning ability are also major factors, Andrew H Chen, chief development officer of WholeRen Education, said.

"Everything about the US education, from the curriculum system to the teaching approaches and question types in exams, is so different from China. It takes a lot of time and effort for students to adjust themselves to that, and some who can't get used to it may fail," Chen said.

Representative photo.
In the 2013-14 academic year, 274,439 Chinese students were studying in the US, a 16.5 per cent increase from the previous year. The dismissed students account for three per cent of the Chinese students studying in the US.

"These incidents sometimes happened among some Chinese students who are too eager to get good results, while sometimes Chinese students were implicated when others cheated or plagiarized," Chen said.

Chinese media quoted a Beijing based expert saying that some of the students do not go to the US to study but to get experience of living in the US.

"Some students from rich families don't go abroad for study but for the overseas experience," Li Fengna, deputy director of the US department of Chivast Education International, an overseas study consulting agency in Beijing, said. Some students were dismissed for lack of knowledge about school regulations.

The number of Chinese students dismissed has been increasing in recent years, as the number heading to study in the US continues to grow.

"More related training and briefing should be given to these students, even though there are orientations at school in the beginning of the semester," she said.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...missed-by-US-schools/articleshow/47484902.cms

 

[Rashna]

On the one hand we have Indian students sweeping all the spelling bee contests and on the other Chinese students are being expelled from US schools....

 

[indiandefencefan]

Its only one side of the coin............. on the other hand many chinese students are performing excellently and often achieving better grades and university placements than students of other nationalities.

 

[Rashna]

Possible, but so many students being expelled from school that too in the US which doesn't have such a tough to get through curriculum (at school level) seems surprising.

Its only one side of the coin............. on the other hand many chinese students are performing excellently and often achieving better grades and university placements than students of other nationalities.

 

[indiandefencefan]

Possible, but so many students being expelled from school that too in the US which doesn't have such a tough to get through curriculum (at school level) seems surprising.

The american curriculum may be easier than India's CBSE but for an american student used to the american system of education, he/she may it as challenging as an Indian finds CBSCE/ICSE.

In the 2013-14 academic year, 274,439 Chinese students were studying in the US, out of this 8000 does not seem a very large percentage.

This problem may be particularly faced more by recent immigrants as the Chinese education system discourages innovation...... something that western curriculum such as IGCSE, International Baccalaureate etc. heavily require.

 

[Rashna]

Or it could be that the malaise which has hit american society is now hitting the chinese too... America has a high school drop out rate, maybe the Chinese are now finding it easier to stay out of school, especially those that make it to the US must come from affluent backgrounds...and the report does mention this reason too. The report also mentions cheating as one of the reasons for being expelled... So behavioral and cultural aspects do figure in this poor performance and consequent removal from school.

The american curriculum may be easier than India's CBSE but for an american student used to the american system of education, he/she may it as challenging as an Indian finds CBSCE/ICSE.

In the 2013-14 academic year, 274,439 Chinese students were studying in the US, out of this 8000 does not seem a very large percentage.

This problem may be particularly faced more by recent immigrants as the Chinese education system discourages innovation...... something that western curriculum such as IGCSE, International Baccalaureate etc. heavily require.

 

[Rowdy]

Hmm.... Would like to see the Indian numbers too. 8000 is pretty small....

 

[indiandefencefan]

Or it could be that the malaise which has hit american society is now hitting the chinese too... America has a high school drop out rate, maybe the Chinese are now finding it easier to stay out of school, especially those that make it to the US must come from affluent backgrounds...and the report does mention this reason too. The report also mentions cheating as one of the reasons for being expelled... So behavioral and cultural aspects do figure in this poor performance and consequent removal from school.

Also a very plausible scenario ........... it can be further looked into if we had data from china but unfortunately for us the the CCP refuses to release data about the performance of its educational system.
What we do get is scattered and heavily omitted.

 

[Rashna]

Seems rather high for an immigrant population IMO.... Immigrants work harder, are focused on their studies, that is the general trend.

Hmm.... Would like to see the Indian numbers too. 8000 is pretty small....

 

[Rashna]

There are reports that their engineers are not technically on par with their american counterparts. Of course we have a similar situation in India of "unemployable engineers"quote Mr. Narayanmurthy -(Infosys).

Also a very plausible scenario ........... it can be further looked into if we had data from china but unfortunately for us the the CCP refuses to release data about the performance of its educational system.
What we do get is scattered and heavily omitted.

 

[indiandefencefan]

There are reports that their engineers are not technically on par with their american counterparts. Of course we have a similar situation in India of "unemployable engineers"quote Mr. Narayanmurthy -(Infosys).

According to analysts only 20% of engineers graduating from indian universities are employable due to the theoretical and not practical nature of Indian education.
Just one of the harsh realities that no government deems to fix.

Cant say about the Chinese since no concrete information is available but @Rashna you are right about 8000 Chinese students being kicked out of schools is in fact a big no. as students are often asked to leave instead of voluntarily dropping out.

 

[Rashna]

There is some info on this if i find that i will post that....

According to analysts only 20% of engineers graduating from indian universities are employable due to the theoretical and not practical nature of Indian education.
Just one of the harsh realities that no government deems to fix.

Cant say about the Chinese since no concrete information is available but @Rashna you are right about 8000 Chinese students being kicked out of schools is in fact a big no. as students are often asked to leave instead of voluntarily dropping out.

 

[Compersion]

that news directed to the current PRC students studying in USA ... dont be surprised if many distaste how other PRC people make them look bad. for example a PRC student that is in a top ivey school on merit meets daily a student from his home town that is not there on merit. expand that exponentially. the figure of 60% that come without financial aid probably needs a better accurate figure and analysis. the Americans make a lot of money by way of education. a lot of PRC people want to send their children to USA for study. The Americans do not need the money.

 

[PredictablyMalicious]

Possible, but so many students being expelled from school that too in the US which doesn't have such a tough to get through curriculum (at school level) seems surprising.

What are you talking about? On average, American post-secondary education is probably more rigorous than India's system. America has some of the most prestigious universities in the world and they attract eminent scholars and academics from around the world.

 

[Rashna]

Nobody is talking about that aspect of the US or the quality of post grad education... At school level Indian and Chinese students have a tougher time in school. Which is why it is surprising that these Chinese students are not doing well..

What are you talking about? On average, American post-secondary education is probably more rigorous than India's system. America has some of the most prestigious universities in the world and they attract eminent scholars and academics from around the world.

 

[mattster]

There are excellent high schools here in the US that are competitive with the best in the world.

But when you go to lower income communities the quality of education is crap......just like in India.
Go to a high school or college in any rural town in India and compare the quality of the high school to any decent school in the big city....its crap.

The problem....most Indians take what they hear in American talk shows and polls literally.
In the US the education is funded by the local city and county tax base.

So if you live in a ghetto in the inner city......you school may look worse than the schools in 3rd world countries and your teachers probably suck as well. But if you live in a middle-class/upper class suburb, or you to a private school .....you get the best facilities and teachers.

The average numbers and scores may not look good - but that doesn't mean that the school system sucks.
It just depends on where you live.

 

[PredictablyMalicious]

Nobody is talking about that aspect of the US or the quality of post grad education... At school level Indian and Chinese students have a tougher time in school. Which is why it is surprising that these Chinese students are not doing well..

I bet India's education system is a lot worse than China's. We know that Chinese students from Shanghai score very high on the PISA exam. Shanghai topped that exam. Whereas two Indian states, Himachal and Tamil Nadu performed abysmally. In fact, they pretty much came dead last. It's possible (maybe even likely) that those Indian students weren't a perfectly representative sample but the picture doesn't look pretty.

American public education (K-12) leaves a lot to be desired. However, the available data doesn't support the conclusion that Indian education system is any better. I bet Indian education strongly emphasizes rote learning at the expense of critical thinking and reasoning. Those are different skill sets. Lots of very smart people would do well in one system and not so great in the other. Lots of ordinary but conscientious students would crush rote learning tests but underwhelm on standardized tests that test reasoning. So, maybe Indian system is harder in that one needs to put more work to do well but that doesn't say much about the quality (read intelligence) of the average student.

One reason why non-Indians might think that Indian education is superior is because the Indians they meet in their countries are quite bright. Here, the US comes to mind. The problem is that Indian immigrants are self-selected group and in no way representative of the average Indian in India. Imagine if you had hordes of elite American types from top American universities immigrating to India. A perception would form in India that Americans are very smart and well educated. From this, it would be gleaned that Americans obviously have a superior education system. People are lazy and don't like to think too hard about this stuff.

Another reason is that engineering has really taken off in Asia. It's the most popular major in China and India. Lots of Americans think that math, hard sciences, and engineering by extension, are very boring subjects. American public education doesn't do an adequate job of cultivating students' interest in those subjects and it does an equally poor job of developing foundation skills. The US is also a very rich country where self-actualization is valued much more than getting a practical degree. Lots of Americans are impressed that India graduates so many engineers. What they don't realize is that standards in India are a lot lower. I know people in India who are studying engineering but severely lack intelligence. Frankly, they couldn't have gotten through college in the West. But most non-Indians don't know that. Americans and other non-Indians mistakenly assume that all Indians who study engineering are smart enough to under American standards. It's a thoroughly baseless assumption.

 

[Rashna]

I agree with much of what you say but one thing that this guy said in the video i posted earlier has kind of stuck in my brain..... America is a H1B dependent economy... Its obvious that the talent is coming from abroad (mainly India) because there is a shortage of it despite high standards of education.

Because they are immigrant kids i was taken aback that they could not cope with the american syllabus... These kids are definitely from families who can afford good education (in their own countries), and most come from families who put education on the priority list... I have heard of countless average performers in India going to the US and topping their class because they found it too easy... That doesn't mean these kids are super duper bright but simply that they find the syllabus in the US way easier than what they tackled in India.

For e.g. If you have already studied calculus in school, its way easier to handle when you opt for engineering.

I bet India's education system is a lot worse than China's. We know that Chinese students from Shanghai score very high on the PISA exam. Shanghai topped that exam. Whereas two Indian states, Himachal and Tamil Nadu performed abysmally. In fact, they pretty much came dead last. It's possible (maybe even likely) that those Indian students weren't a perfectly representative sample but the picture doesn't look pretty.

American public education (K-12) leaves a lot to be desired. However, the available data doesn't support the conclusion that Indian education system is any better. I bet Indian education strongly emphasizes rote learning at the expense of critical thinking and reasoning. Those are different skill sets. Lots of very smart people would do well in one system and not so great in the other. Lots of ordinary but conscientious students would crush rote learning tests but underwhelm on standardized tests that test reasoning. So, maybe Indian system is harder in that one needs to put more work to do well but that doesn't say much about the quality (read intelligence) of the average student.

One reason why non-Indians might think that Indian education is superior is because the Indians they meet in their countries are quite bright. Here, the US comes to mind. The problem is that Indian immigrants are self-selected group and in no way representative of the average Indian in India. Imagine if you had hordes of elite American types from top American universities immigrating to India. A perception would form in India that Americans are very smart and well educated. From this, it would be gleaned that Americans obviously have a superior education system. People are lazy and don't like to think too hard about this stuff.

Another reason is that engineering has really taken off in Asia. It's the most popular major in China and India. Lots of Americans think that math, hard sciences, and engineering by extension, are very boring subjects. American public education doesn't do an adequate job of cultivating students' interest in those subjects and it does an equally poor job of developing foundation skills. The US is also a very rich country where self-actualization is valued much more than getting a practical degree. Lots of Americans are impressed that India graduates so many engineers. What they don't realize is that standards in India are a lot lower. I know people in India who are studying engineering but severely lack intelligence. Frankly, they couldn't have gotten through college in the West. But most non-Indians don't know that. Americans and other non-Indians mistakenly assume that all Indians who study engineering are smart enough to under American standards. It's a thoroughly baseless assumption.

 

[amoy]

some (8,000? subj to verification) dropping out or being expelled, many more students r on the way to America, Australia or Europe… not only out of passion for “quality” education but also for averting the highly intensified competition at home.

At the beginning of every summer, the world's most populous nation bends over backward to accomodate the gaokao, China's national college entrance exam. Flight routes are rearranged to mitigate overhead noise, and roads to the testing facilities are cordoned off by law enforcement, the New York Times reports. Honking is forbidden.

besides many r filthily rich kids, for whom "academia" is not of so much relevance [emoji1]

[ Rich Chinese kid pays $2M bail after killing one in carcrash in US pleads not guilty; ... Xu Yichun, 19, was astudent at ..

http://www.ministryoftofu.com/2013/...s-pleads-not-guilty-father-identity-revealed/

~Tapa talks: Orange is the new black.~

 

[Super Flanker]

What are you talking about? On average, American post-secondary education is probably more rigorous than India's system. America has some of the most prestigious universities in the world and they attract eminent scholars and academics from around the world.

It's the other way around. Indian schooling is much more tougher than any Western education system. STEM subjects like maths are a lot more difficult in India, also in India we learn advanced maths at earlier age than American counterparts. The syllabus of STEM subjects in India is a lot more rigorous, more in depth than that of the American equivalent curriculum, our syllabus of maths atleast is atleast 2-3 years ahead of that of American curriculum. It's the general trend with education in Asian countries like Korea, Japan, China and ofcourse India. There is a reason why top western universities are filled with Asian immigrant students.

Now I don't know anything about the ranking of Universities World-wide, honestly I don't trust these rankings? they could be fudged ranking type systems. In general we have a lot of index rankings like happiness index, pollution index, freedom index which the educated members of this forum are aware are simply outright "bogus''. @Crazywithmath @RoaringTigerHiddenDragon what are your thoughts on university rankings?

I have a friend in coaching, he has a friend studying in the UK, he told me that his friend from had said to him that if British white kids sit for our grade X exams then they will definitely fail especially maths, or just barely pass, figure out the toughness of Indian education from that.