75 years from the start of Winter War

[jouni]

Russians linked swastika with nazis, so it was banned in the peace treaty of 1945. We had no problem discontinuing it then, like we had no problem taking it back 2005. It does not have any deeper meaning in our society, It was just given by Swedish count Von Rosen. You can try to twist and turn it like you wish.

I think swastika has worked well for India, you are peaceful flowery people, be proud of that. Drink your tea and do the yoga.

 

[Ray]

Russians linked swastika with nazis, so it was banned in the peace treaty of 1945. We had no problem discontinuing it then, like we had no problem taking it back 2005. It does not have any deeper meaning in our society, It was just given by Swedish count Von Rosen. You can try to twist and turn it like you wish.

Who the hell are Russians to dictate and ensure their views are to be endorsed by others?

How come they did not enforce the same to India, even though they were having a close relations with India?

We would have told them to take a hop.

You may like to read Post # 16 to understand your bond with the Swastika.

 

[ladder]

Russians linked swastika with nazis, so it was banned in the peace treaty of 1945. We had no problem discontinuing it then, like we had no problem taking it back 2005. It does not have any deeper meaning in our society, It was just given by Swedish count Von Rosen. You can try to twist and turn it like you wish.

I think swastika has worked well for India, you are peaceful flowery people, be proud of that. Drink your tea and do the yoga.

Ha Ha nice try. Don't try to do what you are not good at. You just served it bland.

 

[Ray]

@ jouni
Let's get real about the Swastika and Finland.

The President of Finland is the grand master of the Order of the White Rose. According to the protocol, the president shall wear the Grand Cross of the White Rose with collar on formal occasions. The original design of the collar decorated with 9 swastikas, dates from 1918, and was designed by the artist Akseli Gallen-Kallela. The Grand Cross with the swastika collar has been awarded 41 times to foreign heads of state. To avoid misunderstandings, the swastika decorations were replaced by fir crosses at the decision of president Urho Kekkonen in 1963 after it became known that the President of France Charles De Gaulle was uncomfortable with the swastika collar.

Also a design by Gallen-Kallela from 1918, the Cross of Liberty has a swastika pattern in its arms. The Cross of Liberty is depicted in the upper left corner of the standard of the President of Finland.

In December 2007, a silver replica of the WWII period Finnish air defense's relief ring decorated with a swastika became available as a part of a charity campaign.

The original war time idea was that the public swap their precious metal rings for the State air defense's relief ring, made of iron.

Tursaansydän

The tursaansydän (Finnish for "heart of Tursas" or "heart of octopus" <of the order "Octopoda">) or mursunsydän ("heart of the walrus") is an ancient symbol used in Northern Europe. It was especially popular in Lapland. Some say it was used on Lappish shaman drums. The symbol originates from prehistoric times and incorporates a swastika.

The tursaansydän was believed to bring good luck and protect from curses, and was used as a decorative motif on wooden furniture and buildings in Finland. During the 18th century the simple swastika became more popular in Finnish wood decoration than the more complex tursaansydän.

It has been speculated that the tursaansydän represented a flying and rotating hammer of the thunder god Ukko (in Finland) or Thor (in Scandinavia). It could also have been an image of a lightning ball, like the Russian "thunder marks" (see Perun). Another theory is that it is actually an image of the heart of some being, such as Tursas or the walrus. Based on its many interpretations and uses, this symbol appears to have had many meanings over time.

From my notes obtained from sources on the internet.

Heard of Count Carl Gustaf Bloomfield Eric von Rosen, brother-in-law to Hermann Göring?

Let this help your memory

Being a friend of Finland, he gave the newly-independent state an aircraft, which signified the beginning of the Finnish Air Force. The aircraft, a license manufactured Morane-Saulnier MS Parasol/Thulin D, was marked with his badge, a blue swastika on a white background. The Finnish Air Force adopted this as their national insignia.

Now, why should the Finns adopt the Swastika that was the symbol of the most reviled regime of Europe? One aircraft is what is the price to buy Finland?

I think swastika has worked well for India, you are peaceful flowery people, be proud of that. Drink your tea and do the yoga.

Yes, tea is better than Koskenkorva Viina that blows the brains out as is now being seen.

And as recreation going nuts and going for Winter & Ice Swimming.

 

[jouni]

@ray. We got the swastika 1918, 15 years before Hitler. I think Göring gave the idea also to Hitler. Thanks for the other info. IMHO Finns can put to perspective also Nazi period in Europe. Rest of the world is still panicking even though it is 70 years since their demise.

 

[Ray]

@ray. We got the swastika 1918, 15 years before Hitler. I think Göring gave the idea also to Hitler. Thanks for the other info. IMHO Finns can put to perspective also Nazi period in Europe. Rest of the world is still panicking even though it is 70 years since their demise.

What is 'rest of the world'?

Europe and the West is not the 'rest of the world'.

Actually, Asia and Africa is the 'rest of the world'.

And we are not panicking. We are laughing at the hypocrisy of the 'rest of the world' of yours!

The West is pathetic when they pose that they are the world and rest are just there since they have to be there.

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As far as the Swastika and Finland, it is obvious that you don't know that the swastika is an ancient Finnish symbol (dating back to the Iron Age or further) and therefore commonly used in arts and crafts of the period of nationalism - 19th century to the early 20th century. Because the idea of Finland as an independent nation was so new, the need for powerful symbols that reinforced this idea was even greater. The swastika was dynamic, exotic and folkloristic - perfect for art with a message in the late 19th century. Artists who wanted to evoke a "national consciousness" incorporated the symbol in their paintings.

Traditional decorative patterns in Carelian handiwork sometimes include the swastika. Swastika is hakaristi ("hookcross") or vääräpää ("crooked head") in Finnish.

The origins of the Swastika as a national symbol of Finland was noble, but it got corrupted by its misuse and aligning with the most hated regimes of the world.

Koskenkorva Viina is clouding your thoughts.

 

[jouni]

I do not drink Koskenkorva, I buy from Russia proper vodka and Stalin's favourite Georgian Brandy. Actually I prefer Czech beer over harder liquors. I do not want to offend India, you have a great history. I watched Oliver Stone's Alexander, those Indian Kings fought bravely.

 

[Ray]

I do not drink Koskenkorva, I buy from Russia proper vodka and Stalin's favourite Georgian Brandy. Actually I prefer Czech beer over harder liquors. I do not want to offend India, you have a great history. I watched Oliver Stone's Alexander, those Indian Kings fought bravely.

You mean that Koskenkorva is inferior to Russian vodka?

My father had some bottles of Stolichnaya. I have no idea whether that was good or not. He was presented it by some Russian academicians who had come. We, children devoured the Volga cavair that they gave in bottles as big as the Jam and marmalade bottles. If only we knew that it was precious, we would not have eaten it as if it was normal.

I really don't care if Indian Kings fought bravely or not. The fact that foreigners conquered us by war or by deceit does not make me feel any happier or proud, but I am pragmatic enough to analyse the battles in a military way, but even so I am sceptical since history is the one written by the winner or by those who wish to pursue their agenda.

Lastly, I thank you for improving my knowledge of Finland, which I had a general idea, but because of you I had to research and learn more.

I don't grudge Finland for its dark side of their history since pragmatically seen, any country in that situation would do just that if they had to survive. Yet, I am being PC to say it was wrong. My heart however says it was not wrong.

I, too, salute Mannerheim.

 

[jouni]

I am starting to have a feeling, that You Indians are getting tired of Finnish war history. Maybe I join the Vietnamese defense forum, they can put Finnish achievements to perspective...

 

[Otm Shank2]

The Finns fought bravely to secure their freedom and self determination for their people. They may have had to ally temporarily with the nazis but they would have faced people as bad as nazis in stalinists.

The Finns won an incredible tatical victory. Kudos to their people ..peace for their brave dead in knowing their sacrifice wasnt in vain.

 

[Otm Shank2]

and relax... jouni you dish it out to indians as much as they give it you. Both sides need to stop being so critical..

 

[Sameet Pattnaik]

btw we call it swatik not swastika you pale people of europe had hallucination of yourself thinking as best breed of people so started copying this symbol ! called yourself aryans ! meaning people from iran!

 

[jouni]

In Moscow, the Embassy of Finland was held on 03.07.2015 a small seminar with a couple of Finnish and a pair of Russian researchers discussed the Winter War, the unpredictable nature. Discussions were held in good agreement and the facts and not recognizing any kind of passion was no sign. Finnish point of view was pleasant to hear the other party of the prestigious representative analysis, according to which the Finnish military amazing performance based on their free national spirit. Russian bravery was also amazing, but their sacrifice produced only a sad results.
One of the Winter War unpredictable result was that the value of the output, which the Finns were so Stalin and the Russians and the Western Allies in the eyes. It seemed very much like a high probability that the independence of Finland also remained after the Continuation War. Stalin spoke about this very directly and also act in accordance with the words. Virtue was, therefore, for once, salary history. Maybe the people of Finland was indeed the Lord's chosen people, as many thought?

On the latter issue is not discussed in Moscow, but some of the world have seen the observers were surprised at how calmly the parties could seminar to discuss those kinds of things. Not the kind of success the Russians and the Poles in between. Hardly even Chinese and Japanese.
Perhaps, after all, in the end it can be said that the Finnish-Soviet war were still old-fashioned honest wars, which were paradoxical in the era of total war? When the soldiers at the front were killed almost 90 000 two during the war, was the total number of civilian victims, only about 2,500 foreign experts, who can guess at the chapter Performing easily different estimates, for example, half a million ...Vihavainen: Talvisotaseminaari Moskovassa

Winter war ended this week 75 years ago.

 

[sgarg]

@jouni, Russia DOES NOT want war with Finland. This is the reason neutral Finland is a safe Finland.
An anti-Russia Finland is a problem.