5 Indian Army soldiers martyred along LoC

[Ray]

Irony of the situation;- Pakistan is_
1. 1/8 of our GDP.
2. 1/20 of our Landmass.
3. 1/3 of our Defence Forces (approx).
4. Hated & derided the world over.
5. A failed state.
6. At war within itself & without.
7. Dual centre's of power ( perpetually in conflict)

Yet it dares to stare at a Nation like ours ?? and wants to be treated as an equal on the high table.
Think what is wrong with who,where,when,what,why & how ??
Co- opt Army leaders in all strategic planning for Nation building. They are trained to think about issues other than I. me, myself ( which the politicians are adept at )
Youngsters about to join civil services, when ever in conflict or doubt, consult an Army officer and co opt in planning, we will have a safer nation.

Jai Hind ! Jai Bharat!!

@bennedose's analysis of Pakistan and its weaknesses and frustration is the ideal analysis of the Pakistani angst.

 

[Ray]

Sir, the Avenge has to be visible otherwise its not an avenge.

Indian Army has to come out of its 'world perception syndrome' dealing with countries like Pakistan who has no respect on this planet. I bet the world will cheer for India for punishing Pakistan.

Regards

It is politicians who have to come out of the 'world perception syndrome' and the unquenchable desire for the Nobel Prize for Peace as some are aiming for!

I would not place any respect for a Nobel Prize gained through treading mindlessly and selfishly over the avoidable corpse of one's citizens to include 26/11 and terrorist action victims and the military men beheaded and killed!

Hardly a Prize to be proud of!

 

[Blackwater]

As i mentioned in my post 25. Indian media after 2 days of dicussion on LOC is back to chennai express promotion

 

[hit&run]

"Visible" for whom? For people on defence forums like DFI and PDF to gloat over, or visible to the Pak army? Because I can assure you, the revenge is VERY visible to the Pak army..

India cannot trade it's national security for the sake of forum members to trumpet such things.. I'd rather India have the upper hand in the region, by disallowing unity among enemy ranks, than trade that to win a pissing contest on online forums..

Public reaction is due to military action by the adversary not in pre-emption. So please do not blame public.

I bet any military expert will tell you how India should deal with Pakistan. A military response guarantees military response and it should be visible not some heresay bluff.

The crux of my argument was if it is world perception that is stopping us to hit Pakistan then we are misreading the situation. If it is some thing more bigger a cause behind our restraint then please detail few.

 

[JBH22]

Narendra Modi reacts to killing of five Indian soldiers on Pakistan border

New Joke from -----s
NewsX: Hafiz Saeed and Modi both make hate speeches, says Pak Deputy Minister

 

[Shatrujeet]

Heads may roll in Army

General Bikram Singh has reprimanded local commanders for allowing ambush along Poonch LoC, say sources

Even as Defence Minister A.K. Antony on Thursday came out with a fresh statement blaming the Pakistan Army for the killing of five Indian soldiers at the Poonch Line of Control (LoC), Army chief General Bikram Singh has taken his local commanders to task for Tuesday's ambush.

During a visit to Jammu and Nagota on Wednesday, General Singh is learnt to have given a talking-to to the local brigade commander and the divisional commander and demanded to know how the Standard Operating Procedures were neglected during patrolling along the LoC. Sources indicated that a high-level review of LoC security, as well as punishment for erring Army officials, was on the cards.

Mr. Antony's revised statement in Parliament reportedly took cognisance of the new inputs provided by the Army chief, who gave a detailed briefing to the Defence Minister on the incident.

Mr. Antony spoke of the involvement of the Pakistan Army's Special Services Group commandos. He warned Pakistan that neither India's restraint nor the capacity of its armed forces should be taken for granted.

According to sources, the SSG has been active since 1956 and has seven battalions and three independent commando companies, one of which — Musa company — undertakes amphibious operations. Former Pakistani Army chiefs General Pervez Musharraf and General Mirza Aslam Beg are known to have served in the SSG.

The sources said Indian troops' patrolling habits were likely to have been kept under surveillance by the Pakistani Army, which often struck when a change of guard was under way in the Indian Army. On this occasion, the 21 Bihar Regiment was being replaced by the Maratha Light Infantry unit.

Tuesday's ambush suggested that the local unit could have made certain tactical mistakes, said sources. They indicated that the Pakistani Army could have been observing the Indian patrols over the past month and used night-vision devices such as hand-held thermal imagers and sensors.

According to sources, commanders on the ground ought to have anticipated that Pakistan armed forces might use such a change-over period to carry out an attack. "The LoC is highly volatile; it involves 24X7 alertness and vigil. Recent developments in Pakistan also indicate that there is desperation to [inject terrorists into Indian territory]. The way the ambush was planned involving a group of 20 members of special troops, it is possible that their attempt to push in infiltrators has been successful," a source said.

Pakistan has repeatedly caught India's local forces on the wrong foot — particularly in sectors such as Rajouri, Poonch, Mendhar and Uri. It would appear that General Singh's instructions to the ground-level commanders — delivered in the wake of the beheading of an Indian soldier on January 8 — to launch aggressive action within their area of responsibility have not been heeded.

 

[Ray]

"Visible" for whom? For people on defence forums like DFI and PDF to gloat over, or visible to the Pak army? Because I can assure you, the revenge is VERY visible to the Pak army..

India cannot trade it's national security for the sake of forum members to trumpet such things.. I'd rather India have the upper hand in the region, by disallowing unity among enemy ranks, than trade that to win a pissing contest on online forums..

Could you amplify?

What exactly are you implying by - India cannot trade it's national security for the sake of forum members to trumpet such things.. I'd rather India have the upper hand in the region, by disallowing unity among enemy ranks, than trade that to win a pissing contest on online forums..

Are you suggesting that only those who are on fora are inflamed and the rest of the nation are placid and acquiesces the Pakistani action?

Are you suggesting that the rest of the nation does not want a visible befitting reply?

Is standing firm against atrocities done to the Nation's soldier a deviation from standing tall on National security?

Are you suggesting that the martyrdom of these soldiers be binned, canned and disregarded for Peace with Pakistan at all cost is a greater goal towards national= security?

I having not understood what you implied (and my understanding can be wrong), am asking these questions.

If I have misunderstood and you amplify, it will put the records straight!

 

[Ray]

Heads may roll in Army

General Bikram Singh has reprimanded local commanders for allowing ambush along Poonch LoC, say sources

Even as Defence Minister A.K. Antony on Thursday came out with a fresh statement blaming the Pakistan Army for the killing of five Indian soldiers at the Poonch Line of Control (LoC), Army chief General Bikram Singh has taken his local commanders to task for Tuesday's ambush.

During a visit to Jammu and Nagota on Wednesday, General Singh is learnt to have given a talking-to to the local brigade commander and the divisional commander and demanded to know how the Standard Operating Procedures were neglected during patrolling along the LoC. Sources indicated that a high-level review of LoC security, as well as punishment for erring Army officials, was on the cards.

Mr. Antony's revised statement in Parliament reportedly took cognisance of the new inputs provided by the Army chief, who gave a detailed briefing to the Defence Minister on the incident.

Mr. Antony spoke of the involvement of the Pakistan Army's Special Services Group commandos. He warned Pakistan that neither India's restraint nor the capacity of its armed forces should be taken for granted.

According to sources, the SSG has been active since 1956 and has seven battalions and three independent commando companies, one of which — Musa company — undertakes amphibious operations. Former Pakistani Army chiefs General Pervez Musharraf and General Mirza Aslam Beg are known to have served in the SSG.

The sources said Indian troops' patrolling habits were likely to have been kept under surveillance by the Pakistani Army, which often struck when a change of guard was under way in the Indian Army. On this occasion, the 21 Bihar Regiment was being replaced by the Maratha Light Infantry unit.

Tuesday's ambush suggested that the local unit could have made certain tactical mistakes, said sources. They indicated that the Pakistani Army could have been observing the Indian patrols over the past month and used night-vision devices such as hand-held thermal imagers and sensors.

According to sources, commanders on the ground ought to have anticipated that Pakistan armed forces might use such a change-over period to carry out an attack. "The LoC is highly volatile; it involves 24X7 alertness and vigil. Recent developments in Pakistan also indicate that there is desperation to [inject terrorists into Indian territory]. The way the ambush was planned involving a group of 20 members of special troops, it is possible that their attempt to push in infiltrators has been successful," a source said.

Pakistan has repeatedly caught India's local forces on the wrong foot — particularly in sectors such as Rajouri, Poonch, Mendhar and Uri. It would appear that General Singh's instructions to the ground-level commanders — delivered in the wake of the beheading of an Indian soldier on January 8 — to launch aggressive action within their area of responsibility have not been heeded.

Bikram Singh is passing the buck and catching the bull by the gonads and not the horns.

Indian Army has forgotten the Basics.

Basics are not Standing Operating Procedures!

It is the foundation.

SOPs are amplification.

I would be pleased if he knows the Basics!

launch aggressive action

Who is he fooling?

Even when the Army releases an innocuous statement, it is ordered by the Govt to be withdrawn.

So, if aggressive action is taken and it gets wrong, who will bell the cat?

Bickram Singh?

He has not stood by what the Army has issued as a Statement, which is non lethal.

So, who trusts him that he is not a Govt stooge?

JJ Singh has accelerated the politicising of the Army and breaking its spine!

 

[pkroyal]

Non state actors, State actors, fat ass Hafeez Saeed, SSG, Pak Army, Nawaz not so Sharif, Mush ? Kayani, Shuja Pasha !!
Who cares ?
Any act of violence or terror emanating against citizens of India, anywhere in the world needs to be avenged.
Do'nt get entangled in semantics. Punish hard and to deter. For Pakis, terror is a state policy, Who ever carries it out against India, is rewarded by their establishment.
It is war by other means period. Let the egg heads in Delhi understand this once and for all. Let us put an end to all this acting by actors and get real.

 

[ladder]

Army FIR blamed only terrorists, Chief now differs

Defence Minister A K Antony may have changed his statement and blamed Pakistani special troops for the attack on the LoC, but it has emerged that in its formal complaint on the matter to the police, the Army had held "terrorists" responsible for the cross-border raid.
The FIR lodged by the 21 Bihar regiment with the Jammu and Kashmir police in Poonch contained no mention of the Pakistan army.

However, sources said that after his return from Jammu and Kashmir, Army Chief Gen. Bikram Singh briefed the top leadership, and said that the attack was carried out by a team comprising both Pak army regulars and irregular forces.

It is learnt that Gen. Singh said that the Pakistani border action team (BAT) that targeted the Indian patrol consisted of 15 personnel dressed in "salwar kameez" and five in olive greens (OGs). The Chief said that special forces of the Pak army were involved in the attack and added that the Indian side had reconstructed the entire incident to come to the conclusion.

It was this briefing by the Army Chief that resulted in the new statement by Antony in Parliament, during which he blamed Pakistani regular troops.

It is learnt that on August 6, the Poonch police station lodged an FIR No. 113/2013 on the basis of a letter sent by the adjutant of 21 Bihar against unknown terrorists under Section 302 of the Ranbir Penal Code, 4/25 and 26/27 of the Arms Act, and 2/3 of the Egress Act.

Sources said the letter made no mention of Pakistan army regulars, and blamed "terrorists from across the LoC" for the incident.

"A patrol party comprising one non commissioned officer (NCO) and five jawans, including four from 21 Bihar and two from 14 Maratha Light Infantry were moving from own post to another around 1230 hrs," the letter says.

"With an aim to target them so as to establish their dominance, terrorists from across the LoC had sneaked into the Indian territory and laid an ambush near Post No. 1. As the patrol party entered the area near Cheetah post, they came under heavy fire from Pakistani terrorists around 1 am and in the ensuing gun fight suffered five fatal casualties," it adds.

Station House Officer of Poonch Police Station, Sanjeev Salathia, confirmed the details.

Sources said the Army carried out a reconstruction of the entire attack on Tuesday, that led Gen. Singh to reaffirm that it was carried out by special forces. The reconstruction, as well as examination of the nature of injuries received by the martyred soldiers, made the Army conclude that the raid was had been carried out by a highly professional and trained team and had all the hallmarks of a special operation by trained troops.

(With ENS, Delhi)

Army FIR blamed only terrorists, Chief now differs - Indian Express

 

[bhramos]

 

[mastaan]

Why are we, as Indians allowing Politicization of the cold blooded brutal murder of 5 soldiers... Amazing level of tolerance we have, to these good for nothing mantris and slowly rotting top level beaurocracy of our Armed Forces... 5 men died and we get statements and politicians of all parties just play along... Local commanders will take their own revenge in their own way, but this is sheer hypocricy of our leaderhsip to just whine and talk and then shut up... But, then, can we expect more from MounMohan Singh and his coterie?

 

[bhramos]

 

[Simple_Guy]

Army refuses to exchange sweets on Eid

"There was no fun of exchanging sweets with Pakistan Army, which had displayed its most inhuman character by killing give Army jawans. Therefore, we decided not to exchange sweets or fruits with Pakistan Army today,'' a senior Army officer said in Poonch.

The practice of exchanging sweets was going on for past quite some time on all major festivals like Diwali, Eid, Independence Day, Republic Day etc. The two Armies used to meet at cross-LoC point of Chakan-Da-Bagh in Poonch, Tata Pani in Mendhar and some other points on the LoC to exchange sweets and fruits.
This was, however, after a long time that the officials of two Armies didn't exchange sweets on a major festival.

 

[Simple_Guy]

Army refuses to exchange sweets on Eid

"There was no fun of exchanging sweets with Pakistan Army, which had displayed its most inhuman character by killing give Army jawans. Therefore, we decided not to exchange sweets or fruits with Pakistan Army today,'' a senior Army officer said in Poonch.

The practice of exchanging sweets was going on for past quite some time on all major festivals like Diwali, Eid, Independence Day, Republic Day etc. The two Armies used to meet at cross-LoC point of Chakan-Da-Bagh in Poonch, Tata Pani in Mendhar and some other points on the LoC to exchange sweets and fruits.
This was, however, after a long time that the officials of two Armies didn't exchange sweets on a major festival.

 

[Tronic]

Could you amplify?

What exactly are you implying by - India cannot trade it's national security for the sake of forum members to trumpet such things.. I'd rather India have the upper hand in the region, by disallowing unity among enemy ranks, than trade that to win a pissing contest on online forums..

Are you suggesting that only those who are on fora are inflamed and the rest of the nation are placid and acquiesces the Pakistani action?

Are you suggesting that the rest of the nation does not want a visible befitting reply?

Is standing firm against atrocities done to the Nation's soldier a deviation from standing tall on National security?

Are you suggesting that the martyrdom of these soldiers be binned, canned and disregarded for Peace with Pakistan at all cost is a greater goal towards national= security?

I having not understood what you implied (and my understanding can be wrong), am asking these questions.

If I have misunderstood and you amplify, it will put the records straight!

I have stated that the Indian army is aptly carrying out revenge attacks across the LOC. Pakistani soldiers too have been beheaded. Indian Special Forces have carried out forward missions eliminating militant guides across the border. And that to me is perfect revenge. Strike back at the enemy while disallowing unity in that country.

I think what people are suggesting here that the Indian army should not only bite, but India should also drum up and make it a huge fanfare moment that they have bit back! I think that is completely idiotic, as it will only unite the enemy. Right now, TTP are bombing ISI bases every other day, while bomb blasts go off daily in Pakistani cities. The militants waging a war against Pakistani government will quickly turn against India to win over support of the Pakistani masses; so tell me why is it not an idiotic move to lash out at Pakistan overtly, rather than hitting back subtly as is being done now.

Anyone who supports attacking Pakistan at this current stage is arguing for us to help the Pakistani army, which is under siege from militants in that country.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

This thread is not about barkha dutt ..

 

[DivineHeretic]

This thread is not about barkha dutt ..

Requesting a clean up of this thread. This thread is about the loss of 5 soldiers in a single attack, nothing else.

Irrelevant personalities need not be dragged here. There are better and more appropriate threads for their kind.

 

[Bhadra]

Re: Talk of command failure in army Pakistan intrusion raises questio

twitter-vine has this:

Quote:

Shiv Aroor "@ShivAroor 3m
Happy to see Shekhar Gupta's column 2day mentions the unreportable: Army begins revenge for Poonch. 3 Pak soldiers bumped off, more soon.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.org/

 

[anoop_mig25]

Re: Talk of command failure in army Pakistan intrusion raises questio

witter-vine has this:

Quote:

Shiv Aroor "@ShivAroor 3m
Happy to see Shekhar Gupta's column 2day mentions the unreportable: Army begins revenge for Poonch. 3 Pak soldiers bumped off, more soon.

can u pleas provide link for it