30 years to design an aircraft but hope still

[rubyjackass]

How could people miss the most obvious of the reasons?
It took so long because DRDO is not that competent(I felt it really hard to refrain from using the term 'sucks'). This is still a prevalent problem there. If India wants to have a chance for world class competition, it should create a private-public partnership company with lots of investment where only the best get employed and the scum don't get accumulated.
I know, I know, I am very pessimistic about DRDO. I got that from the heaps of failures it got to its credit.

 

[roma]

thats' exactly what we did as a team

If India wants to have a chance for world class competition, it should create a private-public partnership company with lots of investment where only the best get employed .

agree ...... we were involved in commercialization of defence indistries of an un-named country , specifically to allow joint venturing with private industry , to get the best possible persons into the jv

 

[VayuSena1]

How could people miss the most obvious of the reasons?
It took so long because DRDO is not that competent(I felt it really hard to refrain from using the term 'sucks'). This is still a prevalent problem there. If India wants to have a chance for world class competition, it should create a private-public partnership company with lots of investment where only the best get employed and the scum don't get accumulated.
I know, I know, I am very pessimistic about DRDO. I got that from the heaps of failures it got to its credit.

I might want to partially agree with you. However, there is a gradual improvement seen in the overall defense industry mindset . Gradually, things are set to change as more and more private firms such as TATA would enter Indian arms industry.

This change has to be faster and that is something most of us agree in the armed forces.

 

[1.44]

DRDO has had to work under severe technology denial regimes yet it has had some successes like the guided missile program,ECM pods,radars, etc.These should not be overlooked.
However big ticket projects like the Arjun or the LCA will surely benefit from increased private participation and it should be sooner rather than later

 

[mehrotraprince]

Remember few facts:
1. Starting a project from zero is the toughest job and too when its your first experience (LCA Tejas).
2. We don't copy but we discover and invent (Unlike China and Pakistan).
3. International Sanctions (for more than decade).
4. For us success has different meaning (Success for us=more than 75%, For china and Pakistan success=Just pass i.e. 30%).

 

[zenith86]

More than sanctions and tech denials, it was mindset of ADA which led to delays. ADA which was involved in the design of Tejas looked upon it as a scientific project rather than a engineering one. If HAL would have been involved form the beginning, things would have been quite different. Unfortunately, this was not the case with Tejas. But again, things seem to have changed now.

 

[anoop_mig25]

Roma you have to remember sanctions were placed on India during this time, it should teach India to go towards being 100% indigenous in their defense needs.

If india was developing an indigenous plane then whats sanction has to do with it.after all we were developing an indigenous fighter plane and so everything had to be indigenous . Sanction or no sanction.but i am happy that tejas is flying and soon we would develop its engine also and hope develop it faster since its heart of it

 

[anoop_mig25]

If you are talking about the LCA-Tejas project I will suggest you to check the LCA related thread...you will get a lot of information about the project.
Though long ago the plan was there serious funding for the project came only on 1994. Aviasion industry has progressed a lot since then and Indian scientists tried best to keep pace with the change..(how can they offer a 1980s plane to airforce when it is already 2007...) so the end product is not the same when it was first conceived. You can understand how difficult it could be for a closed economy to build up a 4th or 4.5th generation air-craft from the scrach.
BTW ..........DRDO is not a private company.So it is not mandatary for it to go for a commercial production for surviving the project...because money will come for it till it matches the specification of the Air-force. You can compare the details of Tejas with other modern aircrafts.
IAF has already ordered for 20 LCA-Tejas MK1 version. MK2 will have much stronger engine. IAF has plan to induct 200+ such planes.

hi when is LCA mark2 is expected to enter IAF .is its testing going on?

 

[anoop_mig25]

More than sanctions and tech denials, it was mindset of ADA which led to delays. ADA which was involved in the design of Tejas looked upon it as a scientific project rather than a engineering one. If HAL would have been involved form the beginning, things would have been quite different. Unfortunately, this was not the case with Tejas. But again, things seem to have changed now.

can u specify in detail.butter if u pm me.thanks

 

[zenith86]

can u specify in detail.butter if u pm me.thanks

As a B.Tech student, I used to work for a professor who had good contacts in ADA. There were people from ADA who used to visit the lab. Interacting with them, I had a feeling they were more into fundamental research. Even if u look at the recruitment process for ADA, they want research types not engineering types.

 

[RAM]

Ukraine offers to co-develop transport aircraft with India

New Delhi: In a bid to strengthen their military ties, Ukraine has offered to jointly develop a medium weight transport aircraft with India."Ukraine has offered to jointly produce a 10-12 tonne class weight aircraft with us based on their already existing Antonov-148 commercial aircraft and the proposal is being considered by the government," defence ministry officials told PTI.The payload carrying capacity of the proposed aircraft -- An-178, offered by the Ukrainians to the Indian Air Force, will be between that of the C-130J and the force's workhorse An-32 aircraft, they added.

The C-130J Hercules, which will be delivered to India in the first quarter next year, can carry around 20 tonnes and the An-32s can carry a payload of around six tonnes.
If the Ukrainian proposal is approved, this will be the second such co-development programme for transport aircraft after India and Russia signed a contract for developing the Multirole Transport Aircraft (MTA) few years back.The Ukrainian government has also offered to manufacture and export the proposed aircraft to friendly countries, officials said.

The IAF already operates a fleet of over 100 Ukrainian An-32 aircraft fleet, which are currently being upgraded in the country's capital Kiev and used to operate the An-12 aircraft, which could carry around 15 tonnes.During the Soviet era, facilities to develop transport aircraft were based in Ukraine and Kiev has maintained the facilities even after its break-up from the erstwhile USSR in the 90s.
In the recent past, the IAF has taken several measures to augment its transport aircraft fleet, which mainly consists of Ilyushin 76 and An-32 aircraft.To bridge the gap between payload capabilities of the two aircraft, IAF will procure 12 20 tonne C-130Js from America at over $1.5 billion and co-develop the MTA with Russia.It also plans to procure around 10 C-17 strategic lift aircraft from the US, which can carry over 70 tonnes of load.


http://www.dnaindia.com/india/repor...develop-transport-aircraft-with-india_1370045

 

[roma]

DRDO has had to work under severe technology denial regimes yet it has had some successes like the guided missile program,ECM pods,radars, etc.These should not be overlooked.
However big ticket projects like the Arjun or the LCA will surely benefit from increased private participation and it should be sooner rather than later

may i ask if china faced the same technology denials ? if so how was it , that it didnt seem to prevent them from forging ahead ? surely it must be their determination to go forward and not allow squabbling or lack of organizational capability to stand in their way ?

 

[agentperry]

lca mk 1 is not that good fighter..means many fighter with such capability are there in market..with many more things to offer. so it wil juist 40 mk1 in the service... but yeah mk2 is being developed at really very fast pace( leave aside engine). and that wil b inducted in large no... so lets see how soon we can see mk2 flying

 

[agentperry]

reverse engineering a plane and then modifying it... that was what they have done for so long... aftr gtn much of experiance they gt there hands on the drawing board... but still if u think that chinese r more self reliant then u havnt seen there engineers checking out PAF f-16 and mirage 3 n 5... its true that they have a tech advantage over us.... but its not fully developed by them....

 

[hitenray09]

best example of their under development creation is pakistan and china joint ventured ac jf 17

 

[hitenray09]

in their respect we are far ahead in our technology and our product
our lca is far superior than jf 17
after ioc it can run for space with other mmrca contenders such as grippen

 

[SHASH2K2]

may i ask if china faced the same technology denials ? if so how was it , that it didnt seem to prevent them from forging ahead ? surely it must be their determination to go forward and not allow squabbling or lack of organizational capability to stand in their way ?

After Tienanmen square massacre they are under severe arms embargo from west so their problem is more severe than us. SO they deserve some credits for at least reverse engineering . Quality of those stuffs is a different issue altogether .