3 Tibetans Commit Self-Immolation In China Protesting Against China

[mylegend]

Re: 3 Tibetans Commit Self-Immolation In China Protesting Against Chin

Dear Ray,

It is strange and absurd for those who encourage and support public suicide to self-appoint itself as moral authority. If you really want to argue suicide is inline with Buddhism belief, that is fine. However, Im pretty sure you will not get much supporter within the Buddhism circle. If you really believe burning yourself is humane, that is fine. However, that is some of mostly painfully way to die. If you believe those who lost their family member is not shaken by their loved one's death, that is fine. However, I'm sure they do not agree with you. If you really believe organization that do nothing to stop and say there is no wrong in suicide has moral authority, that is fine. You can stay that way. I assume you only support suicide because it is in Tibet, and that will cause trouble for your rival nation. That is questionable, but acceptable. If you support suicide personally, I will no longer attempt to debate with you in this thread. Maybe we can have more friend discussion in other places.

Sincerely,

Mylegend

 

[mylegend]

Re: 3 Tibetans Commit Self-Immolation In China Protesting Against Chin

I will no longer comment on this thread. I suggest other Chinese poster to do the same. Let them pretend they have the moral authority, because we will not be able change their mind just like they will not be able to change mine. The conflict of interest will never get us into any agreement in such topics.

 

[sorcerer]

Re: 3 Tibetans Commit Self-Immolation In China Protesting Against Chin

Dear Ray,

It is strange and absurd for those who encourage and support public suicide to self-appoint itself as moral authority.

What is the moral of the authority(CPC) who drive the Tibetans to commit suicide..Budhism or not.
It was never about belief..You know it..CPC knows it.
It was their (Tibetans) way of saying..its better to die than live under CPC.

 

[Ray]

Re: 3 Tibetans Commit Self-Immolation In China Protesting Against Chin

Dear Ray,

It is strange and absurd for those who encourage and support public suicide to self-appoint itself as moral authority. If you really want to argue suicide is inline with Buddhism belief, that is fine. However, Im pretty sure you will not get much supporter within the Buddhism circle. If you really believe burning yourself is humane, that is fine. However, that is some of mostly painfully way to die. If you believe those who lost their family member is not shaken by their loved one's death, that is fine. However, I'm sure they do not agree with you. If you really believe organization that do nothing to stop and say there is no wrong in suicide has moral authority, that is fine. You can stay that way. I assume you only support suicide because it is in Tibet, and that will cause trouble for your rival nation. That is questionable, but acceptable. If you support suicide personally, I will no longer attempt to debate with you in this thread. Maybe we can have more friend discussion in other places.

Sincerely,

Mylegend

I am not surprised.

Indeed it would be strange and absurd for those who have not any inkling of religion or spiritual awakening and instead base their whole lives as if in pursuing the Holy Grail of creature comfort and Money as the acme of divine existential exposure while on Earth!

If one's loved one dies, some may rush to claim his wealth. Such people have no value for one another and take each other as a mere commodity who can be of value to either enrich the other or ruin him.

Yet, there are others who will pray for him/her for a better life wherever he'she has gone, since he/she cannot be brought back no matter how much of wealth one lays at the feet of the Divine. Strange and absurd and yet Practical and with spiritual comfort

Communist fall in the first category, the irreligious and money being their God.

The rest of the world falls in the second category of seeking peace of mind and belief in the good of humanity and not self!

NO one encourages. It is inbuilt in one's goodness to put society before self and family!

 

[ice berg]

Re: 3 Tibetans Commit Self-Immolation In China Protesting Against Chin

What is the moral of the authority(CPC) who drive the Tibetans to commit suicide..Budhism or not.
It was never about belief..You know it..CPC knows it.
It was their (Tibetans) way of saying..its better to die than live under CPC.

That is some strange logic there. They choosed to die, noone forced them. If your sister commit suicide , will your hold the government responsible for it?

 

[sorcerer]

Re: 3 Tibetans Commit Self-Immolation In China Protesting Against Chin

That is some strange logic there. They choosed to die, noone forced them. If your sister commit suicide , will your hold the government responsible for it?

Its strange/funny for you Chinese when you pretend not to understand the truth.
There is no strange Logic.
If your sister commit suicide will you say its because of Budhism?

If you have "freedom" to access this link
TIBET - CHINA I am setting myself on fire to protest against the Chinese government, says Tibetan woman - Asia News

I am setting myself on fire to protest against the Chinese government, says Tibetan woman
Dharamsala (AsiaNews) - "I am setting fire to myself to protest against the Chinese government," wrote a young Tibetan woman in a letter released by Free Tibet. Nyingkar Tashi, 25, set herself fire on 12 November in the city of Dowa (Rebkong County, eastern Tibet) during a prayer ceremony for Tamdin Tso, a young mother who chose the same death on 7 November.

Before carrying out her deed, Nyingkar Tashi cried out words for Tibet's freedom and long life for the Dalai Lama.

In her letter, she starts out writing: "His Holiness the Dalai Lama, the Panchen Lama and six million" Tibetans in Tibet "need freedom. Tibet needs independence". Then Nyingkar Tashi goes on to claim Tibetans' right to learn and use their own language.

Currently, Chinese has become the basic language of education in Tibet, primary school and up. Chinese has also become the only language of business.

The young woman tells her family not mourn her, that she hopes that six million Tibetans may one day be free to speak Tibetan, wear Tibetan clothes and be united.

Since 2011, when young people began taking their own lives, at least 70 Tibetans committed suicide.

China continues to blame the Dalai Lama and his "clique" for the spate of suicides. However, Tibet's spiritual leader has always urged young Tibetans not to throw away their life in such extreme acts.

If you have the "freedom" to access this link too.
Dalai Lama says Tibetans who commit suicide are not crazy - Syracuse Buddhism | Examiner.com

During a visit to Italy this week the Dalai Lama said that Tibetans who have committed suicide in recent weeks were "not crazy" but were taking desperate action in order to escape Chinese brutality. While speaking to about 3,500 supporters in the city of Trento in northern Italy, the Dalai Lama said, "Tibetans who have taken their lives to escape the torture and prisons of China are not crazy."

 

[ice berg]

Re: 3 Tibetans Commit Self-Immolation In China Protesting Against Chin

Its strange/funny for you Chinese when you pretend not to understand the truth.
There is no strange Logic.
If your sister commit suicide will you say its because of Budhism?

At least I will not try to find convenient scapegoat like you do.

If you have "freedom" to access this link
TIBET - CHINA I am setting myself on fire to protest against the Chinese government, says Tibetan woman - Asia News



If you have the "freedom" to access this link too.
Dalai Lama says Tibetans who commit suicide are not crazy - Syracuse Buddhism | Examiner.com

None of the links contradicts what I am saying. You need to work with your comprehension skills. Read my posts carefully.

 

[Ray]

Re: 3 Tibetans Commit Self-Immolation In China Protesting Against Chin

That is some strange logic there. They choosed to die, noone forced them. If your sister commit suicide , will your hold the government responsible for it?

Acutally, no.

The Govt is not responsible.

However, if someone commits suicide because of Govt policy, then I think it would be correct to blame the Govt.

For instance, in China, if there are railway accident because of corruption wherein safety is forsaken, don't you think that the Govt is responsible for all the death and injuries or is it the fault of the people who used the railways?

After all, no one asked them to use the railway. They could have gone by air or by bus!

 

[ice berg]

Re: 3 Tibetans Commit Self-Immolation In China Protesting Against Chin

Acutally, no.

The Govt is not responsible.

However, if someone commits suicide because of Govt policy, then I think it would be correct to blame the Govt.

For instance, in China, if there are railway accident because of corruption wherein safety is forsaken, don't you think that the Govt is responsible for all the death and injuries or is it the fault of the people who used the railways?

After all, no one asked them to use the railway. They could have gone by air or by bus!

You are comparing apple with orange. MOR is responsible for passenger services, regulation of the rail industry, development of the rail network and rail infrastructure in mainland China. If there is a train accident casued by corruptions, then of course they are responsible.
However if someone jump from the train and commit suicide, then they are not responsible.

Notice the difference between suicide and man caused accidents?

 

[sorcerer]

Re: 3 Tibetans Commit Self-Immolation In China Protesting Against Chin

None of the links contradicts what I am saying. You need to work with your comprehension skills. Read my posts carefully.

There is nothing wrong with my comprehensive skills. You know it. I know it.
It happens because you dont wish to see beyond a certain perpective. When you dont understand certain things at its true level there is no point in Posturing just like what your Govt does. Posturing does not make things right..nor make you win an argument.
May be Posturing has helped CPC in gaining control of the minds of P in the PRC. but that same posturing is NOT GOING TO WORK outside its borders or on a neutral forum like DFI.
it comes from the very fact that you are trying to convince yourself to be true even though deep inside you know that you are totally wrong and odds are stacked high against you.
I rest my case.

Ps: PAK citizens did the same thing.They denied.Look what they got themselves into now.
Accept it or Live with it.

 

[ice berg]

Re: 3 Tibetans Commit Self-Immolation In China Protesting Against Chin

There is nothing wrong with my comprehensive skills. You know it. I know it.
It happens because you dont wish to see beyond a certain perpective. When you dont understand certain things at its true level there is no point in Posturing just like what your Govt does. Posturing does not make things right..nor make you win an argument.
May be Posturing has helped CPC in gaining control of the minds of P in the PRC. but that same posturing is NOT GOING TO WORK outside its borders or on a neutral forum like DFI.
it comes from the very fact that you are trying to convince yourself to be true even though deep inside you know that you are totally wrong and odds are stacked high against you.
I rest my case.

Ps: PAK citizens did the same thing.They denied.Look what they got themselves into now.
Accept it or Live with it.

Another post with no substance. I suggest you read my posts in this thread more carefully.
You have no idea what source I have access to or even where I live. So I suggest instead of second guessing and make fun of
yourself, you stick to the topic.

 

[sorcerer]

Re: 3 Tibetans Commit Self-Immolation In China Protesting Against Chin

One thing i have noticed is..when you CPC Cadets lose the game you dilute the argument by using words like "FUN"/"Joke" / "Funny"/"No Idea" and many one words which is easy on your eyes or simply delve into insults, just like your CPC. May be denial the warm blanket you always use to protect yourself from the harshness of outside.

That doesnt change the reality that you are in "denial".
For this argument ,..i dont really want to know where you live or what kind of access you have [Well..that "Access" part is quiet hilarious, though]

Yes..read my links and then understand the reality..so that you can talk something about the topic unbiased.

 

[ice berg]

Re: 3 Tibetans Commit Self-Immolation In China Protesting Against Chin

One thing I noticed is whenever some posters lost an arguments, they play the CCP card.

Learn to stick to the topic. Then you can second guess where they are from and their access to information.

 

[Ray]

Re: 3 Tibetans Commit Self-Immolation In China Protesting Against Chin

You are comparing apple with orange. MOR is responsible for passenger services, regulation of the rail industry, development of the rail network and rail infrastructure in mainland China. If there is a train accident casued by corruptions, then of course they are responsible.
However if someone jump from the train and commit suicide, then they are not responsible.

Notice the difference between suicide and man caused accidents?

Let me explain suicide and its connection to policies, with an example from China.

Working conditions in Chinese factories have been reported as a factor in suicides. In 2011, it was reported that "At least 14 workers at Foxconn factories in China have killed themselves in the last 16 months as a result of horrendous working conditions."

You are NOT allowed to commit suicide: Workers in Chinese iPad factories forced to sign pledges

Factories making sought-after Apple iPads and iPhones in China are forcing staff to sign pledges not to commit suicide, an investigation has revealed.

At least 14 workers at Foxconn factories in China have killed themselves in the last 16 months as a result of horrendous working conditions.

Many more are believed to have either survived attempts or been stopped before trying at the Apple supplier's plants in Chengdu or Shenzen.

fter a spate of suicides last year, managers at the factories ordered new staff to sign pledges that they would not attempt to kill themselves, according to researchers.
And they were made to promise that if they did, their families would only seek the legal minimum in damages.

An investigation of the 500,000 workers by the Centre for Research on Multinational Companies and Students & Scholars Against Corporate Misbehaviour (Sacom) found appalling conditions in the factories.

They claimed that:

1. Excessive overtime was rife, despite a legal limit of 36 hours a month. One payslip showed a worker did 98 hours of overtime in one month, the Observer reported.

2. During peak periods of demand for the iPad, workers were made to take only one day off in 13.

3. Badly performing workers were humiliated in front of colleagues.
Workers are banned from talking and are made to stand up for their 12-hour shifts.

The 'anti-suicide pledge' was brought in after sociologists wrote an open letter to the media calling for an end to restrictive working practices.

But the investigation revealed many of the workers still lived in dismal conditions, with some only going home to see family once a year.

One worker told the newspaper: 'Sometimes my roommates cry when they arrive in the dormitory after a long day.'

She said they were made to work illegally long hours for a basic daily wage, as little as £5.20, and that workers were housed in
dormitories of up to 24 people a room.

In Chengdu, working between 60 and 80 hours overtime a month was normal, with many breaching Apple's own code of conduct with the length of their shifts.
And the investigation found that employees claimed they were not allowed to speak to each other.


Foxconn admits that it breaks overtime laws, but claims all the overtime is voluntary.

Some officials within the company even accused workers of committing suicide to secure large compensation payments for their families.

Anti-suicide nets were put up around the dormitory buildings on the advice of psychologists.

Foxconn said it had faced 'some very challenging months for everyone associated with the Foxconn family and the loss of a number of colleagues to tragic suicides'.
Spokesman Louis Woo, responding to allegations that staff were humiliated, said: 'It is not something we endorse or encourage. However, I would not exclude that this might happen given the diverse and large population of our workforce.

'But we are working to change it.'

He added that employees were 'encouraged not to engage in conversations that may distract them from the attention needed to ensure accuracy and their own safety'.
Sacom said the company initially responded to the spate of suicides by bringing in monks to exorcise evil spirits.

Leontien Aarnoudse, a Sacom official, told The People: 'They work excessive overtime for a salary they can hardly live on and are inhumanely treated.
'Conditions are harsh and they don't have a social life. Their life is just working in a factory and that is it.'

Demand for iPads and iPhones has soared, resulting in tough targets for workers in Apple factories.

Apple's supplier code of conduct demands that employees are treated with respect and dignity, but its own audit reports suggest suppliers in China may not meet up to these standards.

The global high-tech product manufacturer made profits of $6billion ni the first quarter of 2011.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/05/01/article-1382396-0BDB924200000578-814_468x286.jpg

Workers in Chinese Apple factories forced to sign pledges not to commit suicide | Mail Online

So, you see wrong policies lead to suicides which would not happen if policies were abusive of human rights.

And imagine how silly of the conditioned mind of the Chinese that they think by making workers sign pledges that they will not commit suicide, they will not commit suicide!!!!!!

If signing such pledges would stop suicides, then why do you think they have the anti suicide nets of the dormitories?

What a conditioned mentality which thinks that by giving orders people can be frogmarched into shape!

Likewise in Tibet. If draconian and abusive policies were not being implemented in Tibet, none would be driven to suicide.

Not really chalk and cheese as you wish to claim by stating apples and oranges!

 

[ice berg]

Re: 3 Tibetans Commit Self-Immolation In China Protesting Against Chin

Let me explain suicide and its connection to policies, with an example from China.

Working conditions in Chinese factories have been reported as a factor in suicides. In 2011, it was reported that "At least 14 workers at Foxconn factories in China have killed themselves in the last 16 months as a result of horrendous working conditions."



So, you see wrong policies lead to suicides which would not happen if policies were abusive of human rights.

And imagine how silly of the conditioned mind of the Chinese that they think by making workers sign pledges that they will not commit suicide, they will not commit suicide!!!!!!

If signing such pledges would stop suicides, then why do you think they have the anti suicide nets of the dormitories?

What a conditioned mentality which thinks that by giving orders people can be frogmarched into shape!

Likewise in Tibet. If draconian and abusive policies were not being implemented in Tibet, none would be driven to suicide.

Not really chalk and cheese as you wish to claim by stating apples and oranges!

Since when is Foxconn( A taiwanese company btw) representative for working conditions in China?

What is the suicide number for similar companies? Why only single out Foxconn?

If I follow your logic:


On figures there was much debate since the issue was so emotive. More than 17,500 farmers a year killed themselves between 2002 and 2006, according to experts who have analyzed government statistics

Farmers' suicides in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, you see wrong policies lead to suicides which would not happen if policies were abusive of human rights.

And imagine how silly of the conditioned mind of the indians that they think by denying that it is happening, they will not commit suicide!!!!!!

What a conditioned mentality which thinks that by giving orders people can be frogmarched into shape!

Likewise in India. If draconian and abusive policies were not being implemented there, no farmers would be driven to suicide.

Not really chalk and cheese as you wish to claim by stating apples and oranges!

 

[Ray]

Re: 3 Tibetans Commit Self-Immolation In China Protesting Against Chin

Wrong policies do lead to suicides.

No one condones that.

But suicide due to abuse of human rights is dastardly and inhumane.

And ordering by diktat that no one will commit suicide is laughable and like Gorge Orwell's 1984 - BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU. THINK SPEAK and so on!

A satire on Communism and countries like China - a privileged Inner Party elite that persecutes all individualism and independent thinking as thought crimes.

Farmers suicide in India is not because of draconian and abusive policies but because of faulty policies.

Lots of difference!

But then, how will you understand, where independent thinking in your country is a THOUGHT CRIME!

 

[sorcerer]

Re: 3 Tibetans Commit Self-Immolation In China Protesting Against Chin

One thing I noticed is whenever some posters lost an arguments, they play the CCP card.

Learn to stick to the topic. Then you can second guess where they are from and their access to information.

When you deny the fact about suppression like your party, then naturally people say the truth that you are a part of it.
sticking to the topic is what you should tell to yourself, before you start thinkin with your knuckles.

 

[AVERAGE INDIAN]

Re: 3 Tibetans Commit Self-Immolation In China Protesting Against Chin

Self-immolation is not a traditional form of protest in Tibet and appears to have evolved out of Tibetans' desperation to draw international attention to persistent and brutal violations of Tibetans' human rights by the occupying Chinese regime.
There is no legal justification for China's interference with Tibet's territorial integrety. Forceful annexations are in violation of international law. Article 2(4) of the United Nations Charter expressly prohibits annexation by force. Therefore China's invasion and continuing occupation of Tibet did not confer any rights to China, rather, China is guilty of an illegal military invasion colonization of Tibet in violation of international law

All those who have self-immolated this year are Buddhist monks, former monks and now, one nun. most of the monks who set fire to themselves have died; the well-being and whereabouts of most of the anti China monks remain unknown.

China's disproportionate response to that first self-immolation has included the deployment of large numbers of paramilitary People's Armed Police to the area, arbitrary arrests, armed road blocks, house searches, interruption of internet, mobile and telephone communications.

The blame for the continued colonization of Tibet therefore does not only rest with China, but also with all United Nations member states. It is time for our governments to not only look regretfully, or with a pointed finger, to the past, such as the annihilation of the Native American populations or the German Holocaust, but to stop todays human rights violations through decisive and coordinated international actions.

 

[ice berg]

Re: 3 Tibetans Commit Self-Immolation In China Protesting Against Chin

Wrong policies do lead to suicides.

No one condones that.

But suicide due to abuse of human rights is dastardly and inhumane.

And ordering by diktat that no one will commit suicide is laughable and like Gorge Orwell's 1984 - BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU. THINK SPEAK and so on!

A satire on Communism and countries like China - a privileged Inner Party elite that persecutes all individualism and independent thinking as thought crimes.

Farmers suicide in India is not because of draconian and abusive policies but because of faulty policies.

Lots of difference!

But then, how will you understand, where independent thinking in your country is a THOUGHT CRIME!

When the going get tough, the tough get going. You will notice majority of people choose to live. So much for your theory.

 

[Ray]

Re: 3 Tibetans Commit Self-Immolation In China Protesting Against Chin

When the going get tough, the tough get going. You will notice majority of people choose to live. So much for your theory.

You are rioght.

The XInjiang Muslims and Tibetan Buddhists are getting to do since the going for them is getting tough day by day by the Han repression!