23 Pak troops killed or injured in ambush

nitesh

Mob Control Manager
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
7,550
Likes
1,307
wrong, the use of heavy weapons & misguided air strikes in no way are akin to genocide, it just don't fir the definition of genocide, may be you have some other definition of genocide but some sources disagree with you i.e its deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.
PA is systematically killing own population using heavy weapons that is akin to genocide only

not shifting it, just denying your linear equation with PA/ISI as the only variables, the point remains, its was collective responsibility but who cares now who created them? our side of Durand line is 90% clear & the myth of their invincibility is breaking
Why blame others they wanted some body to do there dirty work and your institutions have put your state on rent out of there sheer greed and now killing civilians not useful people for money.
 

Singh

Phat Cat
Super Mod
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
20,311
Likes
8,403
Country flag
EG realize that it is unreasonable to ask of Indians to sympathize or empathize with what is happening in Pak. We have been victims of Pak sponsored terrorism and many of us are convinced that its the same terrorists, the ones bred to kill Indians, who are now killing Pakistanis. You have to realize this line of thinking in India exists, and due deference has to be given to this. If this turns out to be a majority voice, peace in the region will be held hostage.
 

DaRk WaVe

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2009
Messages
809
Likes
97
By no stretch of imagination this can be called collateral damage. Let us not use words that defy the situation on ground
the use of heavy weapons have got this till now in case of recent operation in Bajur, considering the magnitude of problem, you can decide

Frontier area in numbers

70,000 people Out of population of 1.2 million in Bajaur are refugees.

150 pakistan soldiers killed by insurgents in Bajaur.

75 civilians killed in Pakistan air strike in Khyber last Saturday.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...d-the-hidden-lair-of-the-taliban-1946387.html

& before you come in & declare it a failure

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2010/03/2010331460778788.html
 
Last edited:

DaRk WaVe

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2009
Messages
809
Likes
97
EG realize that it is unreasonable to ask of some Indians to sympathize or empathize with what is happening in Pak. We have been victims of Pak sponsored terrorism and many of us are convinced that its the same terrorists, the ones bred to kill Indians, who are now killing Pakistanis. You have to realize this line of thinking in India exists, and due deference has to be given to this. If this turns out to be a majority voice, peace in the region will be held hostage.
all right don't sympathize, we really don't need it, but no need to question the dead, I know the line of thinking exists, I ain't denying it but saying that PA is doing genocide is no way justified
 

DaRk WaVe

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2009
Messages
809
Likes
97
Nitesh their so called Intel has failed many times. Pakistanis are ranting the success of these operations even before they started and yet the war is not over and USA is planning to move out soon. From the time of creation of Pakistan these lawless tribal areas have enjoyed the privileges to run the regime within regime. Situation has worsen since Russian invasion but there was great dissociation with western belt and government in Islamabad.
sorry, we ain't ranting the, actions speak louder than words...

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=229552

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...d-the-hidden-lair-of-the-taliban-1946387.html

& if you want more just tell me or turn the pages, ISAF & Americans have no 'credibility' to make assumptions about our operations when they themselves abandon bases every now & then

If we seen chronologically the way Pakistan has selectively started its operations explains nothing but its old inherited prejudice against tribal Pakistanis. One must pay attention that even if the villages have been evacuated the civilian causalities are high and frequent. During !965 the same situation was with Indian army when these Pakistani regulars started mixing with civilians but the end result was exceptional and quick with total flushing of enemy with minimal collateral damage.
Same old point, I want to know what you people exactly mean by 'selective', yes we are selectively killing rouge elements & selectively getting the Top Leaders with 11 out 16 Quetta Shura made effectively ineffective


& if you are talking about Good & bad Taliban distinction(wrong theory in minds of Indians & i have proved it wrong) then I am sorry, Indians are no one to question that when they are themselves singling out factions of Taliban that will suit their interests in Afgh


A military expert can tell us that when army is called upon and heavy equipment is used with well planned operational doctrine against a out weaponed, out numbered, on its own enemy the objectives are easily achieved. But in this case it's almost 10 years and nothing has been achieved so far but all parties involved are running their own personal wars and innocents are suffering.
Strange don't know in which world you are living when you say 'nothing has been achieved', ISAF has got its own problems I m no one to talk about them, ISAF needs to show some guts on their side, Our side of Durand Line is million times better than theirs & as for Heavy Weapons point I have already explained
 
Last edited:

DaRk WaVe

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2009
Messages
809
Likes
97
US never created Taliban. US CAN be blamed for leading to the mess which created Taliban but US did NOT explicitly create the Taliban. No wonder that US did NOT recognize Taliban Afghanistan.
US is linked to creating of Taliban, Hillary is saying it herself...

& rest of your post is almost perfect, you have perfectly explained the factions of Taliban, but don't forget the factions of Hekmatyar & Jallauddin Haqqani aka Snuff Rapist
 

hit&run

United States of Hindu Empire
Mod
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
14,104
Likes
63,370
Usual pakistani propaganda and jumlebazi....

70,000 people Out of population of 1.2 million in Bajaur are refugees.

150 pakistan soldiers killed by insurgents in Bajaur.

29 Bajaur elders arrested for alleged non-cooperation
So you are claiming your army is popular..hunnnn...29 tribal leaders!!.....same source..more anti Pakistan leadership then anti India Pakistan sponsored hurriyat in Kashmir.

& if you want more just tell me or turn the pages, ISAF & Americans have no 'credibility' to make assumptions about our operations when they themselves abandon bases every now & then
What are you trying to say that your army is superior then US....and those marines are idiotsss?( before i go in detail on that)

Same old point, I want to know what you people exactly mean by 'selective', yes we are selectively killing rouge elements & selectively getting the Top Leaders with 11 out 16 Quetta Shura made effectively ineffective
''Slective' 'Difficult to explain to you cause its typical with Pakistan as they change their position and selection every time for their own convenience and you are not an exception; trying to score points on your premature optimism when war is still on.
This is what you have been doing in this thread for last one day. I hate going in details like you but i have done our home work and have no urgency to give credit to your army period.

Reading your policies ''Selective'' has changed by the course of time for Pakistan.

There were signs of the country's "Talibanization," that is, the growing strength of radical Islam. Pakistan also seemed to be a source of instability in South Asia and to pose a challenge to America's nuclear nonproliferation policy.Worst of all, Islamabad seemed to be emergingas a promoter of terrorism, not unlike such "rogue states" as Iran and North Korea. See Douglas Jehl, "Pakistan Is Facing Terrorist listing," New York Times, April 25, 1993.


Afghan training camps and Afghan recruits helped to prepare the next Pakistani-instigated insurgency against the Indians in Kashmir and to spread radical Islamic ideas and institutions around the world, through "jihad-international" brigades, some of which were tied to the al- Qaeda network. It is doubtful that the Taliban's control of Afghanistan and its policy of turning the country into the center of international terrorism could have occurred without the support of Pakistan. "We are fighting a jihad and this is the first Islamic international brigade in the modern era," bragged Gen. Hamid Gul, the former head of the ISI, to a journalist in 1999."The communists have their international brigades, the West has NATO, why can't the Muslims unite and form a common cause?" Quoted in Christopher Hitchens, "On the Frontier of Apocalypse," Vanity Fair,January 2002, p. 86.

Despite denials by Musharraf and his aides, Pakistan's ISI continued to provide military and financial assistance to the Taliban in Afghanistan even after September 11, 2001. According to Human Rights Watch, "Crisis in Impunity: The Role of Pakistan, Russia and Iran in Fueling the Civil War," Special Report 13, no. 3 (July 2001), quoted in ibid.

The Pakistani leader took a more ambiguous and restrained approach toward Islamabad's ties with Washington and expressed only a qualified backing for the U.S. position. Musharraf referred to the dilemma Pakistan was facing as it had to choose between "two adversities"—confrontation or cooperation with the United States (and the West). He concluded that in such a case Islamic law requires that one choose the lesser adversity (in this instance, cooperation with Washington). He compared his move to the temporary cease-fires that Muslim leaders had signed with nonbelievers in the early stages of Muslim history to provide the Muslims with an opportunity to gain strength and expand their influence. It is more likely that Musharraf was applying the lessons of Muslim history and teachings to make an argument in favor of a short-term accommodation with the powerful non-believers of the day, the Americans. "Remarks by Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf to the Pakistani People," Major Leader Special Transcripts, Federal News Service, September 19, 2001.
You are doing same compromises by the name of Islam with your own people now by creating mess killing civilians, telling lies that Talibani are escaping because of Americans and exposing your army's real capabilities and value for your own people.

U.S. officials admitted that "one month after the Pakistan government agreed to end its support of the Taliban, its intelligence agency was still providing safe passage for weapons and ammunition to arm them.According to those reports, hundreds of Pakistani military officers and ISI agents provided support to the Taliban forces and helped to evacuate 5,000 Taliban and al- Qaeda fighters from Afghanistan to Pakistan. Many of them were airlifted out of the northern Afghan city of Kunduz just before it fell to the Northern Alliance. Frantz, "Pakistan Ended Aid to Taliban Only Hesitantly." also See Seymour M. Hersh, "The Getaway," New Yorker, January 28, 2002, pp. 36–40.


"I believe that after eight years, we should have been able to do more, with all the Pakistani forces working together with the rest of the world," he said. "We've got to ask ourselves why, eight years after 11 September, nobody has been able to spot or detain or get close to Osama bin Laden, nobody's been able to get close to Zawahiri, the number two in Al Qaida." 2009 Gordon Brown.

That Pakistan has made significant contributions to defeating various terrorist groups is therefore undeniable, yet its larger campaign against terrorism has also been conspicuously selective and perhaps self- serving. While it has secured major gains in eradicating some domestic anti- national sectarian terrorist groups and has contributed disproportionately to the ongoing campaign against al- Qaeda, it has been much more reluctant to conclusively eliminate those terrorist entities operating against India in Kashmir and elsewhere and against Afghanistan both in the FATA and in transit back and forth to the southern and eastern Afghan provinces. For a devastating critique of Pakistan's incomplete war on terrorism, including its failure to transform its domestic environment, which breeds extremism,
see "Unfulfilled Promises: Pakistan'sFailure to Tackle Extremism," Asia Report no. 73 (Islamabad/Brussels: International Crisis Group, January 16, 2004), www.crisisgroup.org/library/documents/asia/south_asia/073_unfulfil_promises_ pakistan_extr.pdf; and Stephen Philip Cohen, "With Allies Like This: Pakistan and the War on Terror," in Adam Garfinkle, ed., A Practical Guide to Winning the War on Terrorism (Stanford: Hoover Institution Press, Stanford University, 2004), pp. 103–116.


The decision to avoid targeting the Taliban was born of similar calculations. Initially, it was owed simply to the inclinations of senior Pakistani military commanders who were just not prepared to add insult to injury by physically eliminating the very forces they had long invested in, especially because they had now suffered the ignominy of having to consent to their client's defeat. Over time, however, the reasons for protecting the Taliban only grew stronger: India's growing prominence in Afghan reconstruction, its increased influence and presence in Afghanistan more generally, the weakening of the Hamid Karzai government in Kabul, the progressive souring of Pakistani- Afghan relations (including those between Karzai and Musharraf personally), and the disquiet about a possible U.S. exit from Afghanistan (a prospect inferred from the mid-2005 announcement that the United States would divest full command of Afghan combat operations to NATO) once again increased Pakistan's paranoia about the prospect of a hostile western frontier. It was exactly the desire to avert this outcome that led to the initial Pakistani decision to invest in sustaining the Taliban. And with fear of the wheel turning full circle gaining strength in Islamabad since at least 2005, the temptation to hedge against potentially unfavorable outcomes in Kabul— by protecting the Taliban as some sort of a "force- in- being"—only appeared more and more attractive and reasonable to Pakistan.
A useful discussion of Pakistani calculations vis- à- vis the Taliban can be found in Syed Saleem Shahzad, "Pakistan, the Taliban and Dadullah," Pakistan Security Research Unit, Brief Number 3, Department of Peace Studies, University of Bradford, March 1, 2007, http://spaces.brad.ac.uk:8080/ download/attachments/748/Brief3finalised1.pdf, and Jones, "Pakistan's Dangerous Game,"
pp. 24–26.


Few indian, with pinch of salt but acurate.
http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/publication/faultlines/volume18/Article1.htm

Selective Counterterrorism in Pakistan

Strange don't know in which world you are living when you say 'nothing has been achieved', ISAF has got its own problems I m no one to talk about them, ISAF needs to show some guts on their side, Our side of Durand Line is million times better than theirs & as for Heavy points I have already explained.
Reading current affairs only from Pakistani news papers doest make your arguments authentic. Please read the the paragraphs above and see what dangerous games your army and govt is playing. I have given you classic example of InA operations in 1965. Furthermore i have knowingly request before that we should ask a military Pro to explain what is going wrong here with ever prolonging WoT.
 
Last edited:

hit&run

United States of Hindu Empire
Mod
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
14,104
Likes
63,370
Emo Girl:Our side of Durand Line is million times better than theirs & as for Heavy points I have already explained.
[/QUOTE
]

~Durand line~~~~ was posted by Singh. Please quote/ask him.
Regards
 

DaRk WaVe

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2009
Messages
809
Likes
97
usual pakistani propaganda and jumlebazi....

70,000 people Out of population of 1.2 million in Bajaur are refugees.

150 pakistan soldiers killed by insurgents in Bajaur.

29 Bajaur elders arrested for alleged non-cooperation
So you are claiming your army is popular..hunnnn...29 tribal leaders!!.....same source..more anti Pakistan leadership then anti India Pakistan sponsored hurriyat in Kashmir.
read it again it says for not 'abiding by their word' you people don't arrest the people who violate their word & Challenge writ of Gov , nothing damn serious, but you may be missed this one

Pakistan Tribes Plan Anti-Taliban Strategy at Biggest Gathering

as for support I have posted an AL Jazeera Video for Sob(member)

Moreover as for propagandist Pakistani Media, you people love to single out the articles which suit you PoV & if you would have read it i also posted a link from Neutral source, the number of casualties are not from Pak Media but from Foreign Media, read it again


rest of the reply later
 
Last edited:

ahmedsid

Top Gun
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2009
Messages
2,960
Likes
252
MOD: Kindly Stop Posting Offtopic BS, and Kindly Report any posts rather than Replying to it. If Anyone Has any Problem with a Mod Decision to Delete any Posts, Send a PM To the Concerned Mod. Any Open Challenge will Result in You Getting an Infraction or a Ban! This is a Warning to All!
 

DaRk WaVe

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2009
Messages
809
Likes
97
what are you trying to say that your army is superior then US....and those marines are idiotsss?( before i go in detail on that)
No Marines ain't idiots, they are ineffective while PA is proving its effectiveness, every now & then they are abandoning their bases as a strategic move & most of the abandoned bases are along border

US Abandons Afghan Valley Where 42 Americans Died

&

 
Last edited:

DaRk WaVe

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2009
Messages
809
Likes
97
here is the one for Hit&Run, proving the effectiveness of PA & ineffectiveness of Marines, plus many other points raised by him, Now please don't say me that NYT is also run by ISI agents


SARAROGHA, Pakistan — This windswept, sand-colored town in the badlands of western Pakistan is empty now, cleared of the militants who once claimed it as their capital. But its main brick buildings, intact and thick with dust, tell not of an epic battle, but of sudden flight.

A month after the Pakistani military began its push into the Taliban stronghold of South Waziristan, militants appear to have been dispersed, not eliminated, with most simply fleeing. That recurring pattern illustrated the problems facing the Obama administration as it enters its final days of a decision on its strategy for Afghanistan.

Success in this region, in the remote mountains near the Afghan border, could have a direct bearing on how many more American troops are ultimately sent to Afghanistan, and how long they must stay.

Pakistan has shown increased willingness to tackle the problem, launching sweeping operations in the north and west of the country this year, but American officials are still urging it to do more, most recently in a letter from President Obama to Pakistan's president, Asif Ali Zardari, over the weekend.

On Tuesday, the military escorted journalists on a tour of the area, where it closely restricts access, showing piles of things they had seized, including weapons, bombs, photos and even a long, curly wig. "It all started from here," said Brig. Muhammed Shafiq, the commander here. "This is the most important town in South Waziristan."

But lasting success has been elusive, tempered by an agile enemy that has moved easily from one part of the tribal areas to the next — and even deeper into Pakistan — virtually every time it has been challenged.

American analysts expressed surprise at the relatively light fighting and light Pakistani Army casualties — seven soldiers in five days in Sararogha — supporting their suspicions that the Taliban fighters from the local Mehsud tribe and the foreign fighters who are their allies, including a large contingent of Uzbeks, have headed north or deeper into the mountains. In comparison, 51 Americans were killed in eight days of fighting in Falluja, Iraq, in 2004.

"That's what bothers me," an American intelligence officer said. "Where are they?"

The Pakistani military says it has learned from past failures in a region where it lost hundreds in fighting before. It spent weeks bombing the area before its 30,000 troops entered. It struck alliances with neighboring tribes.

But the pending campaign was no secret, allowing time for local people and militants to escape, similar to what happens during American operations in Afghanistan.

"They are fleeing in all directions," said a senior Pakistani security official, who did not want to be identified while discussing national security issues. "The Uzbeks are fleeing to Afghanistan and the north, and the Mehsuds are fleeing to any possible place they can think of."

But there was some fighting, as destruction in Sararogha's market area shows, and the fact that the military now occupies the area is something of a success, analysts say. American officials have expressed measured praise for the Pakistani operation so far.

"The Pakistani Army has done pretty well, and they have learned lessons from the Swat campaign, including the use of close-air support from their fighter jets," said a senior American intelligence official, referring to the army's first offensive this spring.

But big questions remain: How long will the military be able to hold the territory? And once they leave, will the militants simply come back?

"Are they really winning the people — this is the big question," said Talat Masood, a military analyst and former general in Islamabad, the capital. "They have weakened the Taliban tactically, but have they really won the area if the people are not with them?"

Winning them over will not be easy. Waziristan's largely Pashtun population has been abandoned by the military in the past, including in 2005, when, after a peace deal, a military commander called Baitullah Mehsud, the head of the Taliban, a "soldier of peace." People who are from this area are still deeply skeptical of the army's intentions.

"People want to know: how serious is the military this time?" said a military official who asked not to be named in order not to undermine the official position publicly.

The military argues that it is, saying that it has lost 70 soldiers in this operation so far, on top of more than 1,000 killed in the last several years of conflict.

Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas, principal spokesman for the Pakistan military, said that about 50 percent of the Mehsud territory is now under army control, including most major towns and roads, and that the military would soon begin to press into villages where militants were hiding.

Finding a reliable local partner will be difficult. The Taliban and Al Qaeda have ruled the impoverished area for so long that they have altered its social structure, killing hundreds of tribal elders and making it hard for the military to negotiate.

The alliances that the military has struck with neighboring tribal leaders, including Hafiz Gul Bahadur, may also prove problematic. The senior Pakistani security official said Mr. Bahadur was hosting the families of two top Pakistani Taliban leaders.

Some American officials also voiced concern that if and when the Pakistani Army crushes the Mehsuds, it will declare victory and cut more permanent peace deals with other Pakistani militant factions, rather than fighting and defeating them.

But the Pakistani military argues that as long as the other groups are not attacking the Pakistani Army or state, it would be foolish to draw them into the war, particularly because Pakistan is not confident the United States will be around much longer.

Mr. Masood explained the thinking: "You are 10,000 miles away and we are going to live with them, so how can we take on every crook who is hostile to you?"

And there is history to overcome. One Pakistani intelligence official pointed to the American abandonment of the region in 1989, after the Soviet Union left Afghanistan. "If they leave in haste, like they left in the past, we will be back to the bad old days," the official said. "Our jihadis would head back to Afghanistan, reopen training camps, and it will be business as usual."
 
Last edited:

maomao

Veteran Hunter of Maleecha
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Messages
5,033
Likes
8,354
Country flag
Majoirty of the captured area is along major roads, all interiors are under Taliban:

have a look few other reports too:



The Afghan-Pakistan border region is widely believed to be the front line in the war against Islamic militants. Click on the provinces or the links below the map to see how militants operate on either side of the border. (Text: M Ilyas Khan)

Helmand, Chaghai
Kabul's writ has never run strong in the remote southern plains of Helmand province. For this reason, it has emerged as the most significant Taliban stronghold in Afghanistan. Further south, across the border in Pakistan, lies the equally remote Noshki-Chaghai region of Balochistan province.
Since 9/11 this region has been in turmoil. In the Baramcha area on the Afghan side of the border, the Taliban have a major base. From there they control militant activities as far afield as Nimroz and Farah provinces in the west, Oruzgan in the north and parts of Kandahar province in the east. They also link up with groups based in the Waziristan region of Pakistan.
Commander Mansoor Dadullah, a one-time Taliban chief of the province who has since developed differences with the Taliban leadership, comes from Helmand, but he has currently shifted his operations to Zabul province and across the border into Balochistan.
Taliban from Baramcha region move freely across the border, and often take their injured to hospitals in the Pakistani town of Dalbandin in Chaghai.
The Helmand Taliban have been able to capture territory and hold it, mostly in the south of the province. They constantly threaten traffic on the highway that connects Kandahar with Herat.
British troops have a major base in the town of Gereshk, along the Kandahar-Herat road. Fresh American troops have also been deployed in the area. They have recently pushed back the Taliban from some of their strongholds, bringing the Garmsir area of the province under government control.
In the summer of 2009 US and UK forces led a major anti-Taliban offensive in Helmand province. These operations came ahead of elections in August and were partly aimed at securing areas to allow people to go out and vote.
Return to top
Kandahar, Quetta
Kandahar has the symbolic importance of being the spiritual centre of the Taliban movement and also the place of its origin. The supreme Taliban leader, Mullah Mohammad Omar, made the city his headquarters when the Taliban came to power in 1996. Top al-Qaeda leaders, including Osama Bin Laden, preferred it to the country's political capital, Kabul.
As such, the control of Kandahar province is a matter of great prestige. The first suicide attacks in Afghanistan took place in Kandahar in 2005-06, and were linked to al-Qaeda. Kandahar has seen some high-profile jailbreaks and assassination attempts, including one on President Karzai.
The Afghan government has prevented the Taliban from seizing control of any significant district centre or town. International forces have large bases in the airport area as well as at the former residence of Mullah Omar in the western suburbs of Kandahar city.
Mullah Omar is thought by some to be hiding in Kandahar or Helmand. Others suspect he is in Pakistan's tribal areas.
But the Taliban have a strong presence in the countryside, especially in southern and eastern areas along the border with Pakistan. Afghan and Western officials have in the past said the Taliban have used Quetta, the capital of the Pakistani province of Balochistan, as a major hideout as well as other Pakistani towns along the Kandahar border.
Areas on the Pakistan side stretching north-eastwards along the border from Quetta to the town of Zhob are inhabited by Pashtun tribes.
Taliban activity in Balochistan is largely related to operations inside Afghanistan and is of no immediate concern to Islamabad.
The so-called Quetta Shura leadership, alleged by the US to direct much of the Taliban's activity in Afghanistan, is said to be based in the city.
But Pakistani authorities have denied the existence of such a Taliban council in Quetta - or that the Taliban have a major presence in Balochistan.
Return to top
Zabul, Toba Kakar
Afghanistan's Zabul province lies to the north of Kandahar, along the Toba Kakar mountain range that separates it from the Pakistani districts of Killa Saifullah and Killa Abdullah. The mountains are remote, and have been largely quiet except for a couple of occasions when Pakistani security forces scoured them for al-Qaeda suspects.
Reports from Afghanistan say militants use the area in special circumstances. In early 2002, Taliban militants fleeing US forces in Paktia and Paktika provinces took a detour through South Waziristan to re-enter Afghanistan via Zabul. Occasionally, Taliban insurgents use the Toba Kakar passes when infiltration through South Waziristan is difficult due to intensified vigilance by Pakistani and Afghan border guards.
Zabul provides access to the Afghan provinces of Ghazni, Oruzgan and Kandahar. There are few Afghan or foreign forces in the area, except on the highway that connects Qalat, the capital of Zabul, to Kandahar in the south-west, and Ghazni and Kabul in the north.
Taliban activity along parts of this highway has forced government officials, aid workers and journalists to give up travelling on this road.
Return to top
Kurram, Orakzai, Khyber
As the Pakistani military strategists who organised Afghan guerillas against the Soviets in the 1980s discovered to their delight, Kurram is the best location along the entire Pakistan-Afghanistan border to put pressure on the Afghan capital, Kabul, which is just 90km (56 miles) away. But because the region is inhabited by a Shia tribe that opposes the Taliban for religious reasons, the Taliban have not been able to get a foothold here.
The Taliban, with their primary interest in the war in Afghanistan, have also steered clear of Orakzai tribal district because it does not share a border with Afghanistan and is therefore of no strategic value.
But Taliban groups motivated by sectarian strife, or those trying to drive Pakistani forces out of the tribal region, have set up bases both in the Lower Kurram region, where there are few Shias, and Orakzai.
This area links up with the town of Mir Ali in North Waziristan to the south, and Afridi tribal territory in Darra Adamkhel and Khyber in the north. It was overseen by Hakimullah Mehsud until the death of his top commander, Baitullah Mehsud, in a suspected US missile attack in August. Hakimullah Mehsud has since assumed leadership of the group and has moved to South Waziristan.
Hakimullah Mehsud was believed to command an armed force of more than 2,000 fighters of varying ability. From their bases in Orakzai and areas north of Mir Ali in North Waziristan, these fighters tried to squeeze the Shias of Upper Kurram valley and those living in the Hangu distict of Pakistan's North West Frontier Province (NWFP).
They also infiltrated Khyber region and forged ties with mostly criminal groups that have been operating there in the guise of Taliban. One such group is led by Mangal Bagh. Apart from kidnappings-for-ransom and car-jacking, these groups have also been involved in looting supplies being shipped to international forces in Afghanistan via a road that connects the Pakistani port of Karachi with the country's north-west and passes through Darra Adamkhel-Khyber region.
These groups have also carried out rocket attacks and bombings inside Peshawar city, the capital of NWFP. More recently, they are suspected of setting fire to hundreds of trucks carrying Nato supplies at a transit terminal in Peshawar.
Meanwhile, groups based in Orakzai-Khyber region are believed to be behind the recent spate of bombings in Peshawar and other cities of central NWFP.
Return to top
Paktika, Khost, Paktia
Taliban sanctuaries in South Waziristan and North Waziristan directly threaten Paktika, Khost and Paktia provinces of Afghanistan. The US-led forces have large bases in the Barmal region of Paktika and in Khost, and several outposts along the border to counter infiltration. Pakistani security forces also man hundreds of border checkposts in the region.
However, infiltration has continued unabated with many hit-and-run attacks on foreign troops.
Tribal identities are particularly strong in Paktika, Khost and Paktia. During the Taliban rule of 1997-2001, these provinces were ruled by their own tribal governors instead of the Kandahari Taliban who held power over the rest of the country. In the current phase of the fighting they co-ordinate with the militants in Kandahar and Helmand, but they have stuck with their own leadership that dates back to the war against the Soviets in the 1980s.
The veteran Afghan militant Jalaluddin Haqqani is based in North Waziristan. He is an old man now and has stood aside to allow his son, Sirajuddin Haqqani, to lead the anti-US offensive in the region.
Return to top
South Waziristan
South Waziristan, a tribal district in Pakistan's Federally Administered Tribal Areas (Fata), is the first significant sanctuary Islamic militants carved for themselves outside Afghanistan after 9/11. Militants driven by US troops from the Tora Bora region of Nangarhar province in late 2001, and later from the Shahikot mountains of Paktia in early 2002, poured into the main town, Wana, in their hundreds. They included Arabs, Central Asians, Chechens, Uighur Chinese, Afghans and Pakistanis. Some moved on to urban centres in Punjab and Sindh provinces. Others slipped back into Afghanistan or headed west to Zhob and Quetta and onwards to Iran. But most stayed back and are fighting the Pakistani army.
Unofficial estimates by informed circles put the current number of these foreign fighters at "several hundred". They have concentrations in parts of South and North Waziristan and Bajaur in Fata region, and have also fanned out to conflict zones in Pakistan's North West Frontier Province (NWFP), such as Swat and Buner.
The eastern half of South Waziristan is inhabited by the Mehsud tribe and the main militant commander here is Hakimullah Mehsud, who rose to this position in August, when a suspected US missile strike led to the killing of the top Mehsud commander, Baitullah Mehsud. He heads perhaps the largest militant group in Pakistan, with an estimated strength of more than 15,000 armed men, although the "hard core" of his fighters is much smaller.
The western half, along the border with Afghanistan, is Ahmedzai Wazir territory where Maulvi Nazir commands roughly 8,000 to 10,000 militants. Again, most of these cannot be considered battle-hardened and whether they would fight to the last is unclear.
The Mehsuds only live on the Pakistani side, while the Wazirs inhabit both sides of the border. This partly explains the direction the two commanders have taken over the last few years. Maulvi Nazir's men have largely focused on the war in Afghanistan, and have only recently had some problems with Pakistani forces, apparently due to continued missile strikes by suspected US drones which they believe have tacit Pakistani support.
Tehrik Taliban Pakistan (TTP), an umbrella organisation for anti-Pakistan groups operating in Orakzai, Bajaur and Swat regions, was set up in 2006 by Baitullah Mehsud, the Taliban leader killed in 2009 by a US missile.
In early 2009 Baitullah Mehsud and Maulvi Nazir entered into a three-way partnership with another ethnic Wazir commander, Hafiz Gul Bahadur, who heads the militants in neighbouring North Waziristan. Their aim was to organise joint defence if they come under attack.
But the agreement has failed to work in the wake of a military operation that Pakistani forces launched in South Waziristan in October, months after Baitullah's death. The operation has targeted the Mehsud areas and has brought several towns under army control. But it has not been extended to the Wazir areas of South and North Waziristan, neither have the Wazir groups made an attempt to come to Hakimullah Mehsud's help.
Return to top
North Waziristan
North Waziristan is dominated by the Wazir tribe that also inhabits the adjoining Afghan provinces of Paktika and Khost. North and South Waziristan form the most lethal zone from where militants have been successfully destabilising not only those provinces but others such as Paktia, Ghazni, Wardak and Logar. Groups based in the Waziristan region are known to have carried out attacks in the Afghan capital, Kabul, as well.
Current estimates put the number of armed militants in North Waziristan at more than 10,000. A much smaller number are battle hardened. They are led by Hafiz Gul Bahadur, a veteran of the 1992-96 Afghan civil war who later joined the Taliban. Like Maulvi Nazir in South Waziristan, he has largely focused on the fighting in Afghanistan and has had little friction with Pakistani forces since a 2006 peace deal. In fact, Taliban loyal to him have confronted foreign fighters based in the eastern North Waziristan town of Mir Ali, who have been attacking Pakistani troops in the region. But he, too, is perturbed over drone attacks in the region, and considers Pakistan responsible for them.
North Waziristan is also the home base of another veteran Afghan militant, Jalaluddin Haqqani. His main responsibility has been to organise Taliban resistance to Western forces in Afghanistan, but he has wielded considerable influence over the top commanders in South and North Waziristan. He is also reported to have maintained links with sections of the Pakistani security establishment and is known to have mediated peace deals between the Pakistani government and the Wazir and Mehsud commanders in the region. Mr Haqqani is now an old man, and his son Sirajuddin has taken over most of his work.
Return to top
Nangarhar
The Afghan government has a comparatively firmer grip on the situation in Nangarhar. This is partly due to the compulsion to keep the supply route for Western forces - which connects the Pakistani city of Peshawar with Kabul and passes through Nangarhar - safe.
But there are pockets of resistance in the area. The main Taliban commander here is Anwarul Haq Mujahid, son of a former mujahideen commander, Mohammad Younus Khalis. This group was responsible for offering protection to Osama Bin Laden in the Tora Bora caves soon after 9/11. In recent months militants from the region have been linking up with the so-called Haqqani network in the Paktika-Khost-Paktia region.
Return to top
Bajaur, Mohmand, Kunar
Analysts have long suspected Pakistan's Bajaur tribal region to be the hiding place of Osama Bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri and other top al-Qaeda leaders. As such, it is where suspected US drones launched their earliest missile strikes. One drone strike in January 2006 was said to have narrowly missed Ayman al-Zawahiri, although it killed nearly 18 others. Another strike nine months later killed 80 people at a religious seminary which US and Pakistani officials said was training militants.
The dominant militant group in Bajaur, and those in the neighbouring Mohmand tribal region, became members of the Baitullah Mehsud-led Tehrik Taliban Pakistan (TTP), which was formed soon afterwards. Militants in both areas have since fought Pakistani forces inside their respective tribal zones, and have also carried out attacks in the cities of Peshawar, Charsadda and Mardan. They also conducted the first attacks against security forces in the Malakand region, where the Pakistani forces had to fight a fully fledged insurgency in and around the Swat valley earlier in the summer of 2009.
Maulvi Faqir Mohammad is the chief commander of the Taliban in Bajaur. He was said to lead a force of nearly 10,000 armed militants but there are indications the ranks have thinned in the wake of the operation in the TTP's home base of South Waziristan.
A year-long military operation against the militants in Bajaur ended early in 2009, followed by a peace agreement under which the dominant tribe in Bajaur, the Mamunds, agreed to surrender the entire TTP leadership to the government. But that has not happened. The Taliban are back in control in most areas outside the regional capital, Khaar, and Maulvi Faqir Mohammad continues to use his sermons, broadcast from an FM radio station, to whip up support for the Taliban.
Bajaur shares a border with the Afghan province of Kunar. Pakistani forces battling the Taliban in Bajaur have complained that US and Afghan troops on the other side of the border have not been doing enough to crack down on the Taliban there.
In Mohmand, about 5,000 militants led by Omar Khalid have been resisting attempts by the security forces to clear them from southern and south-eastern parts of the district in order to reduce pressure on Peshawar and Charsadda. In recent weeks, their activities have become infrequent and their grip on most of their erstwhile strongholds has loosened.
Return to top
Oruzgan, Ghazni, Wardak, Logar
Initially the Taliban were unable to maintain sustained pressure on the country's south-central highlands. But with safe sanctuaries in the border region - from the Baramcha area of Helmand province in the south, to some parts of Pakistani Balochistan, Waziristan and Bajaur and Mohmand to the east - the Taliban now have the capacity to render roads in this region unsafe.
Training camps run by al-Qaeda and Taliban groups have multiplied in secure border regions over the past few years. Safe havens have also afforded the militants endless opportunities to find new recruits. The Waziristan region is also known to be a haven for young suicide bombers trained in remote camps. The Taliban also appear to have had access to sophisticated military equipment and professionally drawn-up battle plans.
The strategy appears to be the same as in the 1980s - "death by a thousand cuts". Sporadic attacks on the security forces and the police have grown more frequent over the years, and have also crept closer to Kabul. At the same time, the Taliban have destroyed most of the education infrastructure in the countryside, a vital link between the central government and the isolated agrarian citizenry.
Oruzgan has mostly come under pressure from groups in Kandahar and Helmand. These groups, as well as those based in the Waziristan-Paktika-Khost region, have also moved up the highway via Ghazni to infiltrate Wardak to the west and Logar to the east. Safe and quiet until less than three years ago, both these provinces are now said to be increasingly infiltrated by Taliban fighters.
But they still do not have the capacity to confront troops in open battle, or capture and keep towns.
Return to top
Swat
Swat, a former princely state in northern Pakistan, was governed by a British-era law which a court declared unconstitutional in the early 1990s. That triggered a violent campaign for Islamic law to be introduced in Swat and other areas of the Malakand region of which it is part. The Swat insurgency was effectively put down in 1994 but it re-emerged after 9/11, attracting many battle-hardened militants from Waziristan, Bajaur and the neighbouring district of Dir.
The campaign of the Swat militants has been the most destructive anywhere in Pakistan. They have targeted security forces, police, secular politicians and government-run schools.
By early April 2009, Sharia law had been imposed as part of a deal between the authorities and the local Taliban. However, the militants failed to disarm completely in line with the accord and their fighters spread to neighbouring districts, prompting international concern.
In late April, Pakistani forces launched an operation in four districts of Malakand region, causing some three million people to flee the fighting. Most of the area has since been brought under control and peace has returned to large parts. Most of the refugees have also returned to their homes, though some scattered resistance by the militants remains.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7601748.stm
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Daredevil

On Vacation!
Super Mod
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
11,615
Likes
5,772
I have only one thing to say, the Pak troops have died because of myopic policies of PA such as state sponsored terrorism against India. RIP to the soldiers died fighting the enemies of Pakistan but they are their creation. PA is getting the taste of their own medicine and they deserve it from Indian POV.
 

DaRk WaVe

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2009
Messages
809
Likes
97
@ maomao

Article dated Tuesday, 1 December 2009, today its 27th April 2010, with PA kicking the hell out of them

plus old videos


as for Taliban & blochistan, The Quetta Shura has been effectively made ineffective with 11 out of 16 members killed or captured, do some research before coming down to rant with old articles

Taliban Quetta Shura Leaders Killed or Captured


"¢ Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar directed the Quetta Shura. Baradar was the Afghan Taliban's second in command and the group's operational commander, and was detained in Karachi sometime in January or February 2010.
"¢ Maulvi Abdul Kabir led the Peshawar Regional Military Council before he was captured by Pakistani intelligence in February 2010. He served as the Taliban's former shadow governor of the eastern Afghan province of Nangarhar, as well as the governor of Nangarhar during the Taliban's reign.
"¢ Mullah Mir Mohammed served as the shadow governor in the northern province of Baghlan. He was detained in February 2010.
"¢ Mullah Abdul Salam served as the shadow governor in the northern province of Kunduz. He was detained in February 2010.
"¢ Mullah Dadullah Akhund was the Taliban's top military commander in the South. He was killed in May 2007 by British special forces in Helmand province.
"¢ Akhtar Mohammad Osmani was a member of the Quetta Shura and was the Taliban's chief of military operations in the provinces of Uruzgan, Nimroz, Kandahar, Farah, Herat, and Helmand, as well as a top aide to Mullah Omar. He also personally vouched for the safety of Osama bin Laden and Mullah Omar. He was killed by Coalition forces while traveling near the Pakistani border in December 2006.
"¢ Mullah Obaidullah Akhund was the Taliban Defense Minister during the reign of the Taliban from 1996 until the US toppled the government in the fall of 2001. He was close to Mullah Omar. His status is uncertain; he has been reported to have been arrested and released several times by Pakistani security forces. He was last reported in Pakistani custody in February 2008.
"¢ Mullah Mansur Dadullah Akhund, who is also known as Mullah Bakht Mohammed, replaced his brother Mullah Dadullah Akhund as the top commander in the South during the summer of 2007. His status is uncertain; he was last reported to have been arrested by Pakistani security forces in January 2008 but is thought to have been exchanged as part of a hostage deal.
"¢ Anwarul Haq Mujahid was a member of the Peshawar Regional Military Shura and the commander of the Tora Bora Military Front, which is based in Nangarhar province. He was detained in Peshawar in June 2009. Mujahid is the son of Maulvi Mohammed Yunis Khalis, a senior mujahedeen leader who was instrumental in welcoming Osama bin Laden into Afghanistan after he was ejected from the Sudan in 1996.
"¢ Mullah Ustad Mohammed Yasir was the chief of the Recruitment Committee and a Taliban spokesman before he was arrested in Peshawar in January 2009.
"¢ Mullah Younis, who is also known as Akhunzada Popalzai, was a former shadow governor of Zabul. He served as a police chief in Kabul during Taliban rule. He was captured in Karachi in February 2010.
 
Last edited:

Daredevil

On Vacation!
Super Mod
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
11,615
Likes
5,772
here is the one for Hit&Run, proving the effectiveness of PA & ineffectiveness of Marines, plus many other points raised by him, Now please don't say me that NYT is also run by ISI agents

The fleeing of militants should not be construed as a victory of PA. Its guerilla warfare. The militants are fleeing now only to regroup and fight another day. Simple tactics but very effective. If PA is not going to hold the regions that it has got back from the strangle hold of militants, there will be more ambushes waiting for PA in the future and that's exactly is what going to happen.
 

DaRk WaVe

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2009
Messages
809
Likes
97
The fleeing of militants should not be construed as a victory of PA. Its guerilla warfare. The militants are fleeing now only to regroup and fight another day. Simple tactics but very effective. If PA is not going to hold the regions that it has got back from the strangle hold of militants, there will be more ambushes waiting for PA in the future and that's exactly is what going to happen.
article dated November 17, 2009, start counting the months. plus Swat, SW & Bajur Operation successful, they hvent came back yet & they don't need to because they have more safe places on the other side of Durand Line, plus PA will be permanently stationed at Swat, with FC & Police been trained trained by instructors from abroad & PA, this will make them a effective counter force & in future PA will interfere when absolutely necessary, Ambushes once in a while happen, it will take time to 'completely' neutralize them, this thing cannot be solved over night
 
Last edited:

Daredevil

On Vacation!
Super Mod
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
11,615
Likes
5,772
article dated November 17, 2009, start counting the months. plus Swat, SW & Bajur Operation successful, they hvent came back yet & they don't need to because they have more safe places on the other side of Durand Line, plus PA will be permanently stationed at Swat, with FC & Police been trained trained by instructors from abroad & PA, this will make them a effective counter force & in future PA will interfere when absolutely necessary, Ambushes once in a while happen, it will take time to 'completely' neutralize them, this thing cannot be solved over night
As I said, this is nothing but a mirage. Here is a excerpt of report in BBC. Read the full report

Militants 'down but not out'

At the moment, the militants remain a real but distant fear in Swat - but not elsewhere.
"The army's operations have dented the militants' ability to carry out attacks within Pakistan. But the Taliban leadership and most of the local militants have simply relocated," one observer says.

New Taliban strongholds have emerged in North Waziristan, which is now the focus of a sustained bombing campaign by US drones.
Pakistan's army has resisted US pressure to extend its assault into North Waziristan, largely due to a deal with local Taliban commander Hafiz Gul Bahadur.
His group is not part of the Tehrik-e-Taliban organisation which has carried out attacks across Pakistan. Instead, its fighters are said to carry out strikes against Nato forces over the border in Afghanistan.
In Bajaur, another tribal region, the army's stop-start operation against the militants has continued. Troops have claimed victory several times, but the militants have returned. Fighting has also been fierce recently in Orakzai.
The army remains in control of the Mehsud tribal heartland in South Waziristan, but few locals have dared to return. The Taliban continue to exact terrible vengeance on anyone who dares side with the government.
Beheaded bodies regularly turn up in North and South Waziristan, with notes identifying them as "ISI" or "CIA" spies.
More ominously, though, the killings are now slowly spreading to places like Peshawar and Swat. The military are also accused of extra-judicial killings.
"The Taliban may be down but they are far from out," says the Islamabad-based Swat journalist. "The fact that the army has said 'no' to any new operations has come as a shot it in their arm.
"All they have to do is lie low for the next six months".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8647210.stm
 

DaRk WaVe

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2009
Messages
809
Likes
97
I have read the article & it is based on flawed assumptions e.g.

They are talking about North Waziristan & that Pakistan wont conduct any operations which will backfire, right they won't I have already explained the dynamics of Drone Strikes on Page 12 second last post & how the Drones are doing the effective job for now, lets see the recent Drone strikes....

"¢ US strikes kill 6 in North Waziristan
April 16, 2010
"¢ US strike kills 4 in Taliban stronghold of North Waziristan
April 14, 2010
"¢ US strike kills 5 Taliban in North Waziristan
April 12, 2010
"¢ US strikes kill 6 in North Waziristan
March 30, 2010
"¢ US strike kills 4 in North Waziristan
March 27, 2010
"¢ US kills 6 in strike against Haqqani Network
March 23, 2010
"¢ US strike kills 4 in North Waziristan
March 21, 2010
"¢ US kills 8 terrorists in 2 new airstrikes in North Waziristan
March 17, 2010
"¢ US Predator strike in North Waziristan kills 11 Taliban, al Qaeda
March 16, 2010
"¢ US airstrike kills 12 in North Waziristan
March 10, 2010
"¢ US airstrike in North Waziristan kills 5 Taliban fighters
March 8, 2010
"¢ US hits Haqqani Network in North Waziristan, kills 8
Feb. 24, 2010
"¢ US airstrikes target Haqqani Network in North Waziristan
Feb. 18, 2010
"¢ Latest US airstrike kills 3 in North Waziristan
Feb. 17, 2010
"¢ US strike kills 4 in North Waziristan
Feb. 15, 2010
"¢ US strikes training camp in North Waziristan
Feb. 14, 2010
"¢ Predators pound terrorist camp in North Waziristan
Feb. 2, 2010
"¢ US airstrike targets Haqqani Network in North Waziristan
Jan. 29, 2010
"¢ US airstrike in North Waziristan kills 6
Jan. 19, 2010
"¢ Latest US airstrike in Pakistan kills 20
Jan. 17, 2010
"¢ US strikes kill 11 in North Waziristan
Jan. 15, 2010
"¢ US airstrike hits Taliban camp in North Waziristan
Jan. 14, 2010
"¢ US airstrike kills 4 Taliban fighters in North Waziristan
Jan. 9, 2010
"¢ US airstrike kills 5 in North Waziristan
Jan. 8, 2010
"¢ US kills 17 in latest North Waziristan strike
Jan. 6, 2010
"¢ US airstrike kills 2 Taliban fighters in Mir Ali in Pakistan
Jan. 1, 2010
just see where most of the drones are striking i.e North Waziristan

& secondly i have explained countless times on many threads WHY peshawar gets hit,Peshawar is a provincial capital & the biggest city near the Disturbed areas



the security at borders of Provinces & at entry & exit points of Big cities is extremely tight, Most of time they don't get through e.g. Two suicide bomber were intercepted on Motorway which lead to Lahore etc so Peshawar becomes a target of Choice

then comes in the point that Swat is getting hit, there has been no major fight uptill now, there are only a few hit & run attacks which are of no significance, but today they have a killed a Major Taliban Leader in Swat as well....

-Key militant commander among six killed in Swat

PA will be permanently stationed there along with Police & FC, there's no question of TTP returning to swat plus reconstruction is going on & IDPs have returned
 
Last edited:

DaRk WaVe

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2009
Messages
809
Likes
97
"All they have to do is lie low for the next six months".
we need to wait & see, there is nothing concrete to support this theory for now, already many months have passed & nothing of considerable magnitude happened, the integration of Police & FC with PA will ensure that the ground is held, i remeber the same was said when SW operation was started that PA wont be able to hold ground but nothing happened

"The army's operations have dented the militants' ability to carry out attacks within Pakistan. But the Taliban leadership and most of the local militants have simply relocated," one observer says.
Great Joke.....

BM dead
Hakeem dead
Maunla Tufaan dead
Muslim Khan Caught
unconfirmed reports of Fazullah's death
local small leaders are getting killed on daily basis & same with thugs from Hqqani group
 
Last edited:

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top